Um...just a quick question

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This abortion issue has me in a tussle…um…I’m against abortion UNLESS the mother was raped…but, it is my understanding that ALL circumstances of abortion are wrong. Well, what about the woman that had her life ruined by rape!? She didn’t want that child, and she did nothing to deserve to be raped…so…what about these circumstances?
 
So she carries the pregnancy and gives the baby to a loving family through adoption. No it is not her fault that she was raped but is it the babies fault that it was conceived? No way and sorry but that life no matter what, has already begun and murder is murder. The mother could get some serious conceling to help her get through and I would think that weather she had this baby or not the fact that she was raped will not go away.
Yes, it might be awfully darn hard but Jesus died on the cross for us and I bet that wasn’t easy either.
 
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Poprox:
This abortion issue has me in a tussle…um…I’m against abortion UNLESS the mother was raped…but, it is my understanding that ALL circumstances of abortion are wrong. Well, what about the woman that had her life ruined by rape!? She didn’t want that child, and she did nothing to deserve to be raped…so…what about these circumstances?
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I have read that women have a much more difficult time recovering from the trauma of a rape after aborting a child than when they keep the child. Can a woman really make a sound decision like that after suffering a rape? or would she likely regret it? Killing a child cannot make the rape any better. The child also did nothing and does not deserve to be killed.
 
For me, the heart of your question has an inherent assumption that you must challenge yourself to look at.

As Catholics, we profess the Nicene Creed at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. In the Creed, we say: “…we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life.”. That statement means that only God gives life, and we humans who are having sexual intercourse are only cooperating with creation. We do not order God to give life when we have “sex”, and men who rape women do not order God to make their victims pregnant.

God, for some reason, and it is a mystery to be sure, offers that out of the violence of rape a new life may be born. Should this innocent child be obliterated so that the “evidence” of a crime can be elliminated? It is a notion that both calls the gift of Life a waste unless it is given in the proper circumstances, and cheats God of the power to heal all hurts. A number of women who have brought their children to term after a rape tell of the incredible power of healing that a life born of violence, but spared the same end, can offer a woman.

God ALWAYS is the author of Life, and when He brings it to us in the most difficult of circumstances; He is challenging us to see His Mercy with His eyes.
 
I asked the same question once about 18 years ago. A woman turned to me and said something like “If Jesus were here right now and you could ask Him that question, what do you think He’d say?” Well, that was all the convincing I needed! He certainly would NEVER want one of His beloved to be destroyed–no matter what the circumstances of conception. Also remember, that God allowed the pregnancy to happen–He opens and closes the womb.

God bless you for having an open mind and educating yourself on this issue.

AMDG

Debbie
 
A friend of mine was conceived in a rape. His mother kept him. Later she met her husband and the child was treated as his son. Now my friend has children of his own. His children would never have existed had his mother chose abortion. The world is a better place with all of them in it. God gives the graces needed for every situation! I think it’s beautiful how God can turn something ugly into something wonderful!
 
If we open the door and allow abortion is just this situation, the door will always open wider and wider. If we allow it when someone is raped, then we can allow it if it will affect the mental health of someone. Then we can allow it if the child is going to have a terrible life. Then we can allow it if the child isn’t physically perfect in every way. What about the child that the doctors think will die soon after birth? I think that any kind of immorality has a way of starting out small and growing.

I agree with you that to be raped and become pregnant would be a terrible thing, however if the person turned to Jesus and asked him to help her through, he will provide. We need to remember as Christians that although things may be tough Jesus is there helping us through.
 
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Poprox:
This abortion issue has me in a tussle…um…I’m against abortion UNLESS the mother was raped…but, it is my understanding that ALL circumstances of abortion are wrong. Well, what about the woman that had her life ruined by rape!? She didn’t want that child, and she did nothing to deserve to be raped…so…what about these circumstances?
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Poprox…read the following…

Catechism of the Catholic Church

2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:

You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.

God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.

The Holy Bible

Individuality recognized within the womb:

Isaiah 49:1: “Hear me, O coastlands, listen, O distant peoples. The LORD called me from birth, from my mother’s womb he gave me my name.”

Jeremiah 1:5: “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I dedicated you, a prophet to the nations I appointed you.”

Consciousness recognized within the womb:

Luke 1:41: “And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the baby leaped in her womb.”

Children are precious in God’s sight:

Psalm 127:3: “Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb is a reward.”

Matthew 18:10,14: “Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven. . . . Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.”

Mark 9:36-37: “Then He took a little child and set him in the midst of them. And when He had taken him in His arms, He said to them, “Whoever receives one of these little children in My name receives Me; and whoever receives Me, receives not Me but Him who sent Me.””

Mark 10:13-16: “Then they brought little children to Him, that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked those who brought them. But when Jesus saw it, He was greatly displeased and said to them, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God. Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.” And He took them up in His arms, put His hands on them, and blessed them.”

Rape and incest are not acceptable reasons for aborting:

Deuteronomy 24:16: “Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor shall the children be put to death for their fathers; a person shall be put to death for his own sin.”

The Early Church

Our Apostolic Fathers:

Letter of Barnabus (130 AD): “You shall not destroy your conceptions before they are brought forth; nor kill them after they are born.”

St. Clement (200 AD): “Those who use abortifacients commit homicide.”

Tertullian (200 AD): “The mold in the womb may not be destroyed.”

St. Basil the Great (360 AD): “The woman who purposely destroys her unborn child is guilty of murder. The hair-splitting difference between formed and unformed makes no difrence to us.”

St. Augustine (390 AD): “Sometimes their sadistic licentiousness goes so far that they procure poison to produce infertility, and when this is of no avail, they find one means or another to destroy the unborn and flush it from the mother’s womb. For they desire to see their offspring perish before it is alive or, if it has already been granted life, they seek to kill it within the mother’s body before it is born.”

St. John Chrysostom (390 AD): “Why do you sow where the field is eager to destroy the fruit? Where there are medicines of sterility? Where there is murder before birth? You do not even let a harlot remain only a harlot, but you make her a murderess as well. Indeed, it is something worse than murder and I do not know what to call it; for she does not kill what is formed but prevents its formation. What then? Do you condemn the gifts of God, and fight with His laws? What is a curse you seek as though it were a blessing? Do you make the anteroom of slaughter? Do you teach the women who are given to you for a procreation of offspring to perpetuate killing?”

The Didache, when translated means, “The Teaching(s) of the Twelve Apostles” (100 AD): “…thou shalt not kill a child by abortion…”
 
Pope John Paul II (June 4, 2004):

“Rights are at times reduced to self-centered demands: the growth of prostitution and pornography in the name of adult choice, the acceptance of abortion in the name of women’s rights, the approval of same sex unions in the name of homosexual rights…”

“In the face of such erroneous yet pervasive thinking, U.S. Bishops should stress to congregations their special responsibility for evangelizing culture and promoting Christian values in society and public life.”

The Political Arena

Founders and Leaders of the Women Rights Movement:

Susan B. Anthony (The Revolution, July 8, 1869): “Guilty? Yes. No matter what the motive, love of ease, or a desire to save from suffering the unborn innocent, the woman is awfully guilty who commits the deed. It will burden her conscience in life, it will burden her soul in death; But oh, thrice guilty is he who drove her to the desperation which impelled her to the crime!”

Mattie Brinkerhoff (The Revolution 3(9):138-9, September 2, 1869): “When a man steals to satisfy hunger, we may safely conclude that there is something wrong in society – so when a woman destroys the life of her unborn child, it is an evidence that either by education or circumstances she has been greatly wronged.”*

Sarah Norton (Woodhull’s and Claffin’s Weekly, November 19, 1870): “Child murderers practice their profession without let or hindrance, and open infant butcheries unquestioned … . Is there no remedy for all this ante-natal child murder? … Perhaps there will come a time when … an unmarried mother will not be despised because of her motherhood … and when the right of the unborn to be born will not be denied or interfered with.”

Elizabeth Cady Stanton (Letter to Julia Ward Howe, October 16, 1873): “When we consider that woman are treated as property, it is degrading to women that we should treat our children as property to be disposed of as we see fit.”*

Emma Goldman (Mother Earth, 1911): “The custom of procuring abortions has reached such appalling proportions in America as to be beyond belief…So great is the misery of the working classes that seventeen abortions are committed in every one hundred pregnancies.”

Victoria Woodhull (the first female presidential candidate):
“The rights of children as individuals begin while yet they remain the foetus.” (Woodhull’s and Claffin’s Weekly 2(6):4 December 24, 1870)

“Every woman knows that if she were free, she would never bear an unwished-for child, nor think of murdering one before its birth.” (Wheeling, West Virginia Evening Standard, November 17, 1875)

Mary Wollstonecraft (A Vindication of the Rights of Women, 1792): “Women becoming, consequently, weaker…than they ought to be…have not sufficient strength to discharge the first duty of a mother; and sacrificing to lasciviousness the parental affection…either destroy the embryo in the womb, or cast if off when born. Nature in every thing demands respect, and those who violate her laws seldom violate them with impunity.”
 
Abortion Facts:

40 MILLION ABORTIONS SINCE 1973
4,000 each day

Why Abortions Are Performed:

The overwhelming majority of all abortions, (95%), are done as a means of birth control.

Only 1% are performed because of rape or incest;

1% because of fetal abnormalities;

3% due to the mother’s health problems.
 
I heard Father Frank Pavone of Priests for Life address this topic in the manner of a story.

There is a man who brutally kills another man and there are several witnesses who can identify the murderer. Police show up at his house, his wife answers and they ask for the man. The woman says “I’m sorry but he left a day ago and I haven’t seen him.” The police officer asks “Do you have any children?” “Yes, I have a son,” she replies. “I need to speak with him, please,” says the officer.

The son comes to the door, and the officer asks him the same question. “No, I don’t know where my father is,” to which the officer replies “Sorry, lady, but I’m going to have to arrest your son for the crime of his father.”

People would be outraged by this! Yet that is what is being done by aborting the innocent child – making the child pay for the crime of the father.
 
Thank you for your responses…however, NOW it is my turn…
  1. I ask because I know people in my life that were raped, and I myself, was barely able to escape rape…now, “murder is murder”…ALL forms of sexual abuse are, in a sense murder…imagine! Having your life destroyed by rape, and guess what!? You’re pregnant! So, the mother’s choice is not in this? How about through father-daughter incest? At, oh, during the tender teenage years? What about that one?
  2. Using the cliched “slippery-slope” arguement does not work. What if you were raped? Don’t say, “Well, I would keep the child! Because God wants it that way!” Because, unless you are raped, or sexually assaulted you will have no idea of the aftermath of the event. I’m not being all “in-your-face”, I just know where I’m coming from. I know that my faith in God was shattered during and after my abuse. Imagine being raped! Statistics are nice and dandy, but they are all numbers. Try talking to an actual rape victim. THAT’S what really matters.
  3. That child was conceived through the evil powers of Satan. God may have created the pregnancy, but Satan caused the rape. That child would be a constant reminder of the incident. And yes, Jesus did die for us on the cross…but he KNEW that something like what was going to happen. You will never know if you’re going to be raped. Never.
Thank you all for your views, but life is not black and white. There’s a gray area, and not every dark cloud has a silver lining.
 
Rape is a horrible, horrible thing. And the effects of rape would be with you forever.

I have young daughters, and if one were to be raped I’m afraid I would be filled with hate and want to take a shotgun after the animal that did it… but I would be wrong to murder him.

I think I might be unable to live with the child…but I would be wrong to murder him.

Right and wrong is a lot harder to distinguish when you’re in pain and suffering, but it doesn’t change what’s right and wrong.

If you believe the child in the womb is a living soul, then his death is always wrong. I’m afraid this is black and white.
 
The whole “Well, what would you do if you were raped” argument really bothers me, because ultimately, it doesn’t matter at all what I would do. That doesn’t change an objective evil. Even if I would abort the child, so what? Then I’ve fallen into what I thought I could never do. Does that make it morally ok? No way! These women should be taken care of and ministered to, but in no cases should we encourage them to continue the cycle of evil by murdering!!!

jp2fan
 
Why is a baby any less of a baby because of the manner in which he or she was conceived? :confused:

Why add to the violence done to a woman who has been raped by killing her baby? 😦

Who are we to say that her life would be ruined by having a child?

Also, are you aware of the fact that statistically only 1/2% of abortions are performed on victims of rape?
 
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Poprox:
This abortion issue has me in a tussle…um…I’m against abortion UNLESS the mother was raped…but, it is my understanding that ALL circumstances of abortion are wrong. Well, what about the woman that had her life ruined by rape!? She didn’t want that child, and she did nothing to deserve to be raped…so…what about these circumstances?
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Let me give you this scenario…

If a man were to rob a bank, would it be fair to send his son or daughter to prison for the sins of the father? The answer here is obviously “No”. So then why would we give a death sentence to discontinue the life of an unborn baby because of the sins of his/her father for raping a woman (mother)? The exception of rape would be the only law on the books which would penalize the sons & daughters for the crimes of their fathers.

Last, the rape only exception does not make sense from the standpoint can you just forsee how many men would be falsely accused of rape just so the mother can get an abortion? The only answer to this issue is to protect all life once the human embryo is formed.
 
How will mudering an innocent child help a woman overcome the tragedy of a rape? Frankly the only thing that will help her overcome it is God’s grace, which will enable her to forgive.

Chris C.
 
I don’t know if my comments will help or not, but here goes anyway.

Unless someone has been in a situation, regardless of what it may be, it is impossible to say how one would react. We would all like to think that we would do what we consider “right”, and in most of our cases that would be the "right thing " according to the Church.

So, that said, speaking from experience. Rape lives with you for the rest of your life. You learn, some better than others, how to deal with it, but you will “deal with it” for the rest of your life. The emotions that are running through your mind after the rape are beyond words and the natural thing to do is want to distance yourself from anything and everything that reminds you of it. To include, unfortunately for some, a baby as a result.
But now the guilt of the abortion over shadows that of the rape. If I could go back and change things I would. I remember the day of the abortion more than the day of the rape. Please, if you know anyone who is in that situation, put your arms around her, love her and support her in every way you can. But don’t let her abort. It is a guilt she will carry with her, a pain that won’t go away.

I have a daughter now, soon to be 13. And I protect her as best as I can. We talk alot, which I am happy about. I don’t even want to think about her having to be hurt by something like this. But, if it were to happen, I would stand by her side and help her realize that as hideous as reasons are for her being pregnant ( assuming the pregnancy is a result of the subject at hand) that the child within her is to cherished, for the child is cherish by God already.

NONE OF IT IS EASY. But if you have the opportunity to help someone, hold on to their hand, and help them see that God IS STRONG ENOUGH, more than strong enough to help. All we have to do is ask for it.
 
Thank you, Sgt. Pat, for your beautiful testimony.

God bless you.

Debbie
 
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