UN Panel: Israeli Settlements Are Illegal

[OneSheep]

huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/31/un-panel-israeli-settlements-illegal_n_2589394.html?utm_hp_ref=world

Exerpt:

GENEVA – The United Nations’ first report on the broad policy of Israeli settlements concluded Thursday that the government’s practice of “creeping annexation” clearly violates the human rights of Palestinians, and called for an immediate halt.

In its report to the 47-nation Human Rights Council, a panel of investigators said Israel is violating international humanitarian law under the Fourth Geneva Convention, one of the treaties that establish the ground rules for what is considered humane during wartime.

Israel also continues to withhold from the Palestinan Authority $100M/mo of tax/customs money collected for them, which is supposedly a third of their funding. Given the settlements and the withholding of collected taxes, the Palestinian government is getting more incentive and more evidence to take Israel to International Criminal Court.

Even after the elections, our U.S. government is continuing to unconditionally support Israeli expansion onto Palestinian lands:

democracynow.org/2012/12/20/headlines/us_blocks_bid_to_condemn_israeli_settlement_expansion

We certainly can, and must, forgive the U.S. and Israeli governments for their actions, but we are all called by our faith to actively address the human rights of people in both the occupied territories and in Israel, not just one side.

 

[charlie2009]

I think the Isarelis figure if they provide that ‘$100M/month’ to the Palestinians, it will just be used to secure weapons that would in turn be used against Israel. Unfortunately, the corrupt leadership of the Palenstinians cares more about the destruction of Israel than it does about it’s own citizens. Israel may not be innocent of everything they have done in the past, but the Palestinians have never been held accountable for any of their actions against Israel. It’s always Israel that gets the blame.
A complicated matter that definitely wont get solved here, but I think if the UN would start holding both parties responsible instead of just Israel, it might just move everyone closer to a solution. But that will never happen, given the corrupt nature of the UN

 

[meltzerboy]

huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/31/un-panel-israeli-settlements-illegal_n_2589394.html?utm_hp_ref=world

Exerpt:

GENEVA – The United Nations’ first report on the broad policy of Israeli settlements concluded Thursday that the government’s practice of “creeping annexation” clearly violates the human rights of Palestinians, and called for an immediate halt.

In its report to the 47-nation Human Rights Council, a panel of investigators said Israel is violating international humanitarian law under the Fourth Geneva Convention, one of the treaties that establish the ground rules for what is considered humane during wartime.

Israel also continues to withhold from the Palestinan Authority $100M/mo of tax/customs money collected for them, which is supposedly a third of their funding. Given the settlements and the withholding of collected taxes, the Palestinian government is getting more incentive and more evidence to take Israel to International Criminal Court.

Even after the elections, our U.S. government is continuing to unconditionally support Israeli expansion onto Palestinian lands:

democracynow.org/2012/12/20/headlines/us_blocks_bid_to_condemn_israeli_settlement_expansion

We certainly can, and must, forgive the U.S. and Israeli governments for their actions, but we are all called by our faith to actively address the human rights of people in both the occupied territories and in Israel, not just one side.

I believe the Israeli settlements are one of the thorniest factors obstructing peace negotiations between the Israelis and the Palestinians. Some Israelis are also opposed to their continuation. However, it is also the case that Israel has bent over backwards to meet the Palestinian leadership half-way and then some. It is so easy for us Americans and the United Nations to tell Israel what it should or should not do from the comfort of a relatively safe environment, whereas Israel is fighting for its very survival amid hostile terrorists bent on its destruction. While recognizing that Israel has made mistakes, I think the Arab nations have been more culpable in inciting violence in the region.

 

[kelvinf]

Is this new? Or is there still anybody who does not know that the settlements are illegal?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Is this new? Or is there still anybody who does not know that the settlements are illegal?

Illegal according to what? To some ruling of the unspeakably corrupt UN that calls Zionism “racism” but calls the warring factions of the Palestinians a “nation”? Certainly not illegal under Israeli law. Under Sharia law perhaps? Under the law of who bribes whom?

 

[Ridgerunner]

huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/31/un-panel-israeli-settlements-illegal_n_2589394.html?utm_hp_ref=world

Exerpt:

GENEVA – The United Nations’ first report on the broad policy of Israeli settlements concluded Thursday that the government’s practice of “creeping annexation” clearly violates the human rights of Palestinians, and called for an immediate halt.

In its report to the 47-nation Human Rights Council, a panel of investigators said Israel is violating international humanitarian law under the Fourth Geneva Convention, one of the treaties that establish the ground rules for what is considered humane during wartime.

Israel also continues to withhold from the Palestinan Authority $100M/mo of tax/customs money collected for them, which is supposedly a third of their funding. Given the settlements and the withholding of collected taxes, the Palestinian government is getting more incentive and more evidence to take Israel to International Criminal Court.

Even after the elections, our U.S. government is continuing to unconditionally support Israeli expansion onto Palestinian lands:

democracynow.org/2012/12/20/headlines/us_blocks_bid_to_condemn_israeli_settlement_expansion

We certainly can, and must, forgive the U.S. and Israeli governments for their actions, but we are all called by our faith to actively address the human rights of people in both the occupied territories and in Israel, not just one side.

One could feel a lot more solicitous of P.A. money if one didn’t know they have millions upon millions of dollars invested in U.S. businesses, and don’t do anything to speak of for the people with it. If they care so much about the “Palestinian people” why have they made no provisions for the “Palestinians” who are sitting in refugee camps in other countries for the third generation?

People can buy land in the West Bank. Israelis buy some of it. Wealthy Arabs buy some of it. Why in the world doesn’t the P.A. repatriate its money from the U.S., buy land with it and resell it to its own people on easy terms? They complain about “Israeli settlements”. Where are they subsidizing “Palestinian settlements”? Where, indeed, are all the wealthy Arabs who think it’s such a shame that Israelis buy land there and buy votes in the UN to condemn Israeli settlements? Why haven’t they bought it up themselves and distributed it?

 

[gnjsdad]

Illegal according to what?

International law

See Reuters…

“Israel must cease settlement activities and provide adequate, prompt and effective remedy to the victims of violations of human rights,” Christine Chanet, a French judge who led the U.N. inquiry, told a news conference.

The settlements contravened the Fourth Geneva Convention forbidding the transfer of civilian populations into occupied territory and could amount to war crimes that fall under the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court (ICC), the United Nations report said.

“To transfer its own population into an occupied territory is prohibited because it is an obstacle to the exercise of the right to self-determination,” Chanet said.
All U.N. member states must comply with their duty under international law on the settlements, she said. “We have highlighted states’ responsibility because the facts we denounce are known. The problem is nobody is doing anything about it.”

 

[Ridgerunner]

International law

See Reuters…

“Israel must cease settlement activities and provide adequate, prompt and effective remedy to the victims of violations of human rights,” Christine Chanet, a French judge who led the U.N. inquiry, told a news conference.

The settlements contravened the Fourth Geneva Convention forbidding the transfer of civilian populations into occupied territory and could amount to war crimes that fall under the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court (ICC), the United Nations report said.

“To transfer its own population into an occupied territory is prohibited because it is an obstacle to the exercise of the right to self-determination,” Chanet said.
All U.N. member states must comply with their duty under international law on the settlements, she said. “We have highlighted states’ responsibility because the facts we denounce are known. The problem is nobody is doing anything about it.”

“International Law” applies only to those who have accepted it by treaty AND the jurisdiction of whatever tribunal decides to enforce it. And some who have accepted some parts reject others. It’s not “law” in the sense that people in countries that actually follow the rule of (their own) law think of it.

The underlying assumptions in the ruling are that the West Bank is “somebody else’s” country (which the West Bank never was, and isn’t today) and that the people moving there have no right to do so. Jews have always lived in the West Bank. Did the French judge perhaps also comment on the “occupation” of the West Bank by Arabs who were not there back when Jordan “occupied” it? Are they declared illegal too?

No, just the Jews. I wonder, though, what the French judge would think if an Arab Israeli moved to the West Bank and bought a house there to live in. Would that be Okay? Or is it only illegal if Jews do it?

 

[SamH]

huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/31/un-panel-israeli-settlements-illegal_n_2589394.html?utm_hp_ref=world

Exerpt:

GENEVA – The United Nations’ first report on the broad policy of Israeli settlements concluded Thursday that the government’s practice of “creeping annexation” clearly violates the human rights of Palestinians, and called for an immediate halt.

In its report to the 47-nation Human Rights Council, a panel of investigators said Israel is violating international humanitarian law under the Fourth Geneva Convention, one of the treaties that establish the ground rules for what is considered humane during wartime.
.

Just curious - what war is going on?

 

[OneSheep]

One could feel a lot more solicitous of P.A. money if one didn’t know they have millions upon millions of dollars invested in U.S. businesses, and don’t do anything to speak of for the people with it. If they care so much about the “Palestinian people” why have they made no provisions for the “Palestinians” who are sitting in refugee camps in other countries for the third generation?

Sorry, Ridgerunner, I can’t make out what you are trying to say here. Are you saying that the Palestinians should do more for the refugees in other countries? I don’t know if they are or not. Do you know the stats?

People can buy land in the West Bank. Israelis buy some of it. Wealthy Arabs buy some of it. Why in the world doesn’t the P.A. repatriate its money from the U.S., buy land with it and resell it to its own people on easy terms? They complain about “Israeli settlements”. Where are they subsidizing “Palestinian settlements”? Where, indeed, are all the wealthy Arabs who think it’s such a shame that Israelis buy land there and buy votes in the UN to condemn Israeli settlements? Why haven’t they bought it up themselves and distributed it?

Those would be wealthy Arabs willing to risk having their land confiscated by the Israelis. Israel acquires land and turns most of it over to an authority which, as far as I know, has never sold a single parcel or allowed settlement on such parcels to non-Jews. Have you heard of any Arabs in the Israeli settlements? I would be very interested in the statistics on this, if you could find them. Arabs do not have to “buy votes” to convince representatives from other nations that land confiscation, and the on-the-ground facts that show that Palestinians do not have the same rights as Israeli, are morally wrong. This does not mean that Israel protecting itself is morally wrong. Israel has good reason to confiscate some lands for their own “military security”. However, when they turn around and put settlements on the land, they debunk the military justification and go against international law.

Why would someone have to be paid to have a legal opinion that complies with international law? Do you have real facts to back up the claim that the Arabs are buying votes in the UN?

 

[George_Stegmeir]

What really frosts my *** is that the territory in question was not acquired by agressive conquest initiated by Israel. This territory was acquired by Israel when she was repelling attacks by the Arab nations surrounding her during the various Arab wars against her since 1949.
Since when, in the entire history of the world, has the territory one nation wins in a war they didn’t instigate, had to be given back? Especially when the land in question was given by a European conquorer ( the UK) to a country they created out of whole cloth- a country that had never existed before; a country that was created to pay off a tribal leader that was used as a political counterbalance to other tribal rulers in the area.
As for any agencies of the UN having a right to make judgements about either the Palesinians or the Israelis…that is like playing in a poker game you know is crooked and expectiing to win.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Illegal according to what? To some ruling of the unspeakably corrupt UN that calls Zionism “racism” but calls the warring factions of the Palestinians a “nation”? Certainly not illegal under Israeli law. Under Sharia law perhaps? Under the law of who bribes whom?

Following that logic then we should not have prosecuted Nazis.

I am personally not a fan of letting people take others’ land at gunpoint and then settling it in contravention of international law

What really frosts my *** is that the territory in question was not acquired by agressive conquest initiated by Israel. This territory was acquired by Israel when she was repelling attacks by the Arab nations surrounding her during the various Arab wars against her since 1949.
Since when, in the entire history of the world, has the territory one nation wins in a war they didn’t instigate, had to be given back? Especially when the land in question was given by a European conquorer ( the UK) to a country they created out of whole cloth- a country that had never existed before; a country that was created to pay off a tribal leader that was used as a political counterbalance to other tribal rulers in the area.
As for any agencies of the UN having a right to make judgements about either the Palesinians or the Israelis…that is like playing in a poker game you know is crooked and expectiing to win.

We are talking about the West Bank which was part of the Mandate of Palestine

 

[InigoMontoya]

**I believe the Israeli settlements are one of the thorniest factors obstructing peace negotiations between the Israelis and the Palestinians. **Some Israelis are also opposed to their continuation. However, it is also the case that Israel has bent over backwards to meet the Palestinian leadership half-way and then some. It is so easy for us Americans and the United Nations to tell Israel what it should or should not do from the comfort of a relatively safe environment, whereas Israel is fighting for its very survival amid hostile terrorists bent on its destruction. While recognizing that Israel has made mistakes, I think the Arab nations have been more culpable in inciting violence in the region.

I whole heartedly agree with the bulk of which you’ve stated. Except I personally, view the settlement issue as not being a thorn. More so, it’s being used as a scapegoat IMO, which of course is a bit meaningless.

 

[estesbob]

Wow! I can’t believe a UN panel would rule against Israel-NOT. !

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

I whole heartedly agree with the bulk of which you’ve stated. Except I personally, view the settlement issue as not being a thorn. More so, it’s being used as a scapegoat IMO, which of course is a bit meaningless.

It’s making it harder and harder to have a workable two-state solution

Wow! I can’t believe a UN panel would rule against Israel-NOT. !

I can’t believe the UN calling out a country who is busily violating international law as if they are violating international law-NOT.

 

[InigoMontoya]

It’s making it harder and harder to have a workable two-state solution.

Not quite in comparison to the elephant in the room though. That one of the parties in the purported UN arbitration, is desiring not a two party solution but the annihilation of the other. Settlements are just an easy scapegoat to avoid openly acknowledging that elephant, IMO.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Sorry, Ridgerunner, I can’t make out what you are trying to say here. Are you saying that the Palestinians should do more for the refugees in other countries? I don’t know if they are or not. Do you know the stats?

Those would be wealthy Arabs willing to risk having their land confiscated by the Israelis. Israel acquires land and turns most of it over to an authority which, as far as I know, has never sold a single parcel or allowed settlement on such parcels to non-Jews. Have you heard of any Arabs in the Israeli settlements? I would be very interested in the statistics on this, if you could find them. Arabs do not have to “buy votes” to convince representatives from other nations that land confiscation, and the on-the-ground facts that show that Palestinians do not have the same rights as Israeli, are morally wrong. This does not mean that Israel protecting itself is morally wrong. Israel has good reason to confiscate some lands for their own “military security”. However, when they turn around and put settlements on the land, they debunk the military justification and go against international law.

Why would someone have to be paid to have a legal opinion that complies with international law? Do you have real facts to back up the claim that the Arabs are buying votes in the UN?

Supposedly there are some 5 million “Palestinians” who claim they came from Israel. I don’t know how many live in regugee camps…kept their by their Arab brothers…but that should be easy to Google. But the real question is why do not the Arabs both inside and outside the West Bank create “settlements” for their own people? The West Bank is not a very big place, but you can buy land there. Israelis don’t seize settlement land, they buy it. Arabs buy it too, but it’s expensive. The Arab wealth in the world far outweighs the wealth in Israel. But we don’t see Arab “settlements” for the Palestinians financed by Arab wealth, do we? I do recall reading, however, of a wealthy Palestinian who bought 70 acres (a lot of land for that place) to build a sprawling palace for himself alone. Where are the Arab financiers in all of this?

Well, the Arabs don’t build settlements for their own because they want what the Israelis have. That’s their focus. Never mind that some Palestinian doesn’t have a roof over his head in Nablus, go to the UN to keep the Jews from having a roof over their heads, and in the meantime build palaces for yourself if you’re rich enough to do it and hire the bodyguards necessary to protect you in that gang-infested land. Meanwhile, divert the attention of the Palestinians to the Israelis. Not “Here, the Arab Housing Authority has built a big settlement where you can live”, but “Here, throw a bomb so you can have the settlement the Jews built for themselves”. Their “brother” Arabs, not the Israelis, are the worst enemies the Palestinian Arabs have. That was true in 1948 and it’s true today.

If we think of “Palestine” as being Israel and the West Bank together, the great majority of the population is composed of Israeli Jews. Israelis compose nearly 1/3 of the population of the West Bank. There have always been Jews in the West Bank. As a separate nation, “Palestine” (West Bank) would have a population of almost 2 million people, a third of which are Jews…at least until the Arabs killed the Jews or drove them out.

And why do Israelis live in “settlements” instead of single-family dwellings doted across the countryside? Because it isn’t safe otherwise, that’s why. If you were a Jew living in a place where 2/3 of the population was constantly told that you are “apes and pigs” and needed to be “pushed into the sea”, would you feel safe other than in a densely-packed, easily defended settlement?

If you’re a German and want to live in Alsace because there are plenty of Germans still in Alsace and always were, you can do it. The UN does not condemn France for keeping Alsace even though the majority of people there are of German extraction. Nor does it condemn Ukraine and Belarus for their continued “occupation” of about the eastern 1/4 of Poland. Nor does it condemn Russia for its continued “occupation” of Koenigsberg. Nor does it condemn Poland for its continued “occupation” of East Prussia and Pomerania and Silesia. It doesn’t condemn non-citizens for buying land in the U.S. Not a word. But it condemns Jews for living in the West Bank where Jews have always lived, and Israel has not even annexed the West Bank the way France annexed Alsace, Belarus and Ukraine annexed a big part of Poland, Poland has annexed Silesia, Pomerania and East Prussia and Russia has annexed Koenigsberg.

Muslims have a lot of influence in the UN. Jews have virtually none. And so we’re supposed to respect the pronouncements of that corrupt organization? Remember how Saddam Hussein had so many of them bribed with oil rights and money?

I have a lot more respect for the governorship of Illinois (a questionable proposition in itself, given how often they are indicted) than I have for any tribunal of the UN. At least those governors have some reason to worry that the FBI might catch wind of some of their worst corruption. Nobody polices the UN.

Oh, and the land authority in Israel won’t sell land either…not to Jews or Arabs, either one. If you’re an Israeli Jew and want to build a house in Israel, you rent the land from the government. But if you’re an Arab or a Jew in the West Bank you can buy land, if you can afford to buy it.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

If you’re a German and want to live in Alsace because there are plenty of Germans still in Alsace and always were, you can do it. The UN does not condemn France for keeping Alsace even though the majority of people there are of German extraction.

The French don’t send troops into Alsace, tell the Germans they don’t have the right to live there anymore, forcibly evict them, and replace them with French citizens. They also don’t annex German territory on the pretense of national defense.

 

[jwinch2]

So, let’s see. A war was started against Israel. They defended and took land in the process. And now, people don’t like that and want them to give it back. Sounds like the price of doing business to me.

In other news, no one, outside of the people who work at the UN, actually cares what the UN says about anything.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Following that logic then we should not have prosecuted Nazis.

Actually, the Nazis were not prosecuted under any recognized international law. The victors made it up as they went, as victors often do. I’m not defending the Nazis. Probably all of the ones executed deserved it in a moral sense. (maybe not one or two, though, and there are those who say Speer should have been executed instead of Ribbentrop) Von Ribbentrop was found guilty of plotting to “wage aggressive war” and hanged for it.

But nobody suggests that the leaders of Hamas or Hezbollah should be hanged for firing rockets into Israel.