UN Panel: Israeli Settlements Are Illegal

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But nobody suggests that the leaders of Hamas or Hezbollah should be hanged for firing rockets into Israel.
And no one bothers to mention what those attacks are in response to. The random shelling of a playground for instance…then again at the first responders after you’ve blown their children into a million pieces. Or snatching a Palestinian teenager out of a car at a check point and carving a Star of David into his arm with a shard of glass. So, perhaps the selective outrage goes both ways.
 
The French don’t send troops into Alsace, tell the Germans they don’t have the right to live there anymore, forcibly evict them, and replace them with French citizens. They also don’t annex German territory on the pretense of national defense.
No, actually that’s almost exactly what they did.

Alsace was a German area even before the Franco-Prussian War. The people spoke German, were related to the people across the Rhine in Baden, and were Germans in every way. It had been taken by the French back in Louis XIV’s day, but nobody tried to make Frenchmen of them then.

After 1870, it was part of Germany, and remained part of Germany until 1918, when the Allies gave it to France. French revanchism before 1914 was embodied in Plan 17. Plan 17 was exactly designed to take Alsace (Elsass) and Lorraine (Lothringen) away from Germany. That was the French war plan…their only war plan. As it turned out, Plan 17, which the French executed, led to the near encirclement of their entire army. It was a bad plan chiefly because it assumed the Germans would only fight defensively over Elsass and Lothringen. That’s why the French threw nearly their whole army into it. Germany’s Schleiffen Plan was a big shock and almost cost France the war.

The French imposed the French language in the schools after 1918, told the residents they were now French, and made it a part of France. Until then, it was as German as was Baden, across the river. It has only been in recent years that German has almost disappeared from Alsace as a first language.

And, like the Arabs now living in other Arab countries, lots of Germans left both Alsace and Lorraine for the U.S. because of the incessant warring, because of revolution, and because they didn’t want to be ruled by the French. Probably no fewer than 1/2 of the German-descended Catholics in the U.S. came from there.

Germany took it back in 1940, and lost it again in 1944 or 1945.

Koenigsberg, Silesia, Pomerania and East Prussia were indisputably German until 1945. Germans were absolutely driven out and replaced with Russians and Poles. Eastern Poland was part of Poland until 1940. The Russians shifted Poland to the west, shipped enormous numbers of Poles to Siberia, Kazakhstan and other remote places, and it’s largely now populated by Ukrainians and Belorussians. The main reason why there are Catholics in Russia today is because of all the Poles and Lithuanians the Russians shipped off to remote areas in the former Soviet Union. There are now lots of ethnic Russians in Lithuania, though there weren’t before WWII.

And no UN tribunal has ever uttered a peep over any of it. Why? Because it’s all political and based on power. Jews aren’t powerful. Easy to beat up on them, particularly if one has a little Arab oil money in one’s pocket.
 
And no one bothers to mention what those attacks are in response to. The random shelling of a playground for instance…then again at the first responders after you’ve blown their children into a million pieces. Or snatching a Palestinian teenager out of a car at a check point and carving a Star of David into his arm with a shard of glass. So, perhaps the selective outrage goes both ways.
None of what you accuse Israelis of is part of their policy. Shelling Israeli civilians is exactly part of the policies of Hezbollah and Hamas. Does the Israeli constitution call for killing all the Arabs? No, it doesn’t. Does the Hamas Charter call for killing all the Jews? Sure does.

Arabs live in peace in Israel. Some are in the IDF. Some are in the Israeli parliament. How many Jews are there in Gaza? (none) How many in Egypt (100, down from 80,000) How many in Morocco? (3500, down from 350,000) How many hold high office in the armies or governments of any Arab state? (none)

Nobody could look at those facts and imagine that Arab ill-treatment of Jews is due to Jewish ill-treatment of Arabs, unless one simply wanted to beat up on the Jews and believe anti-Israeli propaganda. If Israel wanted there to be no Arabs at all in Israel, it could get it done tomorrow. But no, it allows Arab Israelis into its officer corps and Knesset. It allows some 100,000 West Bank Palestinians to work in Israel daily. It licenses 10,000 West Bank Palestinian businessmen to travel freely into Israel to do business.

How many Jews do the Arab countries allow to travel freely from Israel into their countries to work or to do business?

If Israel wanted there to be no Arabs in the West Bank, it would take a little longer, but it could do it.
 
And no UN tribunal has ever uttered a peep over any of it. Why? Because it’s all political and based on power. Jews aren’t powerful. Easy to beat up on them, particularly if one has a little Arab oil money in one’s pocket.
First of all, you omitted a rather important detail. France had been in possession of Alsace since the 17th century until it was annexed by Germany in the 19th century. So, in your example, Germany would be analogous with Israel. France didn’t just march in with papers from the Ottoman Empire, build a wall around it, and claim it as their own either. It was ceded by Germany in the Treaty of Versailles and retaken after WWII. Why would the UN complain about a legal transfer of land agreed to by both parties?
None of what you accuse Israelis of is part of their policy. Shelling Israeli civilians is exactly part of the policies of Hezbollah and Hamas. Does the Israeli constitution call for killing all the Arabs? No, it doesn’t. Does the Hamas Charter call for killing all the Jews? Sure does. Arabs live in peace in Israel…
Whether such actions are part of some documented policy is irrelevant; they do it and the Palestinians respond. Using white phosphorous supposedly wasn’t “policy” either but they ordered it to be used anyway. They either have no control over the IDF and IBP or they actively choose to throw this alleged “policy” of peaceful coexistence to the wind at every opportunity. It is incredibly naive to think that these rocket attacks are not a response to Israeli aggression. I wouldn’t expect anyone to smile and whistle a happy tune after watching their children get blown apart for the amusement of the IDF. Or their property and livelihoods destroyed by Israeli settlers with little-to-no recourse. Israel provokes the Palestinians and its so-called security forces terrorize them. A response should be expected.
 
None of what you accuse Israelis of is part of their policy. Shelling Israeli civilians is exactly part of the policies of Hezbollah and Hamas. Does the Israeli constitution call for killing all the Arabs? No, it doesn’t. Does the Hamas Charter call for killing all the Jews? Sure does. Arabs live in peace in Israel…
Whether such actions are part of some documented policy is irrelevant; they do it and the Palestinians respond. Using white phosphorous supposedly wasn’t “policy” either but they ordered it to be used anyway. They either have no control over the IDF and IBP or they actively choose to throw this alleged “policy” of peaceful coexistence to the wind at every opportunity. It is incredibly naive to think that these rocket attacks are not a response to Israeli aggression. I wouldn’t expect anyone to smile and whistle a happy tune after watching their children get blown apart for the amusement of the IDF. Or their property and livelihoods destroyed by Israeli settlers with little-to-no recourse. Israel provokes the Palestinians.
 
First of all, you omitted a rather important detail. France had been in possession of Alsace since the 17th century until it was annexed by Germany in the 19th century. So, in your example, Germany would be analogous with Israel. France didn’t just march in with papers from the Ottoman Empire, build a wall around it, and claim it as their own either. It was ceded by Germany in the Treaty of Versailles and retaken after WWII. Why would the UN complain about a legal transfer of land agreed to by both parties?

Whether such actions are part of some documented policy is irrelevant; they do it and the Palestinians respond. Using white phosphorous supposedly wasn’t “policy” either but they ordered it to be used anyway. They either have no control over the IDF and IBP or they actively choose to throw this alleged “policy” of peaceful coexistence to the wind at every opportunity. It is incredibly naive to think that these rocket attacks are not a response to Israeli aggression. I wouldn’t expect anyone to smile and whistle a happy tune after watching their children get blown apart for the amusement of the IDF. Or their property and livelihoods destroyed by Israeli settlers with little-to-no recourse. Israel provokes the Palestinians and its so-called security forces terrorize them. A response should be expected.
Agreed to by both parties? Are you serious? The German representatives were presented with one document, not allowed to negotiate at all, and told that if they didn’t sign it, the war would begin again immediately. Had there truly been a negotiated settlement there probably would have been no WWII. Everybody knows that.

Palestine was in the possession of the Turks since well before the 17th Century. The Brits took it away from them, then walked away from it. Jordan then took it. There was never a country of “Palestine”. If your defense of France’s actions in taking Alsace and Lorraine away from an actual country called Germany is to be applied to Palestine,Israel has an even better right to the West Bank than France has to Alsace and Lorraine, because the West Bank was never part of any country at all.
 
I wouldn’t expect anyone to smile and whistle a happy tune after watching their children get blown apart for the amusement of the IDF.
Ooookay. This is “apes and pigs” level stuff. I think we’ve seen enough to know what underlies it.
 
Ooookay. This is “apes and pigs” level stuff. I think we’ve seen enough to know what underlies it.
Oh please. :rolleyes: If a failure to reason and face the realities of what is happening over there gets people a gold star then I don’t want one. The incident mentioned was well reported on. The Palestinians stopped a group of terrorists from launching rockets half a mile away and their reward from Israel was to have tanks shell a playground and kill their children 30 minutes later. Don’t be surprised if they let the rockets fly next time.
 
No, actually that’s almost exactly what they did.

Alsace was a German area even before the Franco-Prussian War. The people spoke German, were related to the people across the Rhine in Baden, and were Germans in every way. It had been taken by the French back in Louis XIV’s day, but nobody tried to make Frenchmen of them then.

After 1870, it was part of Germany, and remained part of Germany until 1918, when the Allies gave it to France. French revanchism before 1914 was embodied in Plan 17. Plan 17 was exactly designed to take Alsace (Elsass) and Lorraine (Lothringen) away from Germany. That was the French war plan…their only war plan. As it turned out, Plan 17, which the French executed, led to the near encirclement of their entire army. It was a bad plan chiefly because it assumed the Germans would only fight defensively over Elsass and Lothringen. That’s why the French threw nearly their whole army into it. Germany’s Schleiffen Plan was a big shock and almost cost France the war.

The French imposed the French language in the schools after 1918, told the residents they were now French, and made it a part of France. Until then, it was as German as was Baden, across the river. It has only been in recent years that German has almost disappeared from Alsace as a first language.

And, like the Arabs now living in other Arab countries, lots of Germans left both Alsace and Lorraine for the U.S. because of the incessant warring, because of revolution, and because they didn’t want to be ruled by the French. Probably no fewer than 1/2 of the German-descended Catholics in the U.S. came from there.
snip
And no UN tribunal has ever uttered a peep over any of it. Why? Because it’s all political and based on power. Jews aren’t powerful. Easy to beat up on them, particularly if one has a little Arab oil money in one’s pocket.
Do recall that when the Germans in WWI took over Alsace Lorraine they totally proscribed French. When Germany collapsed the people of Alsace-Lorraine asked the the French to restore order.

I’d like to see your data on half or even a quarter of the German Catholics immigrating to the US being from Alsace-Lorraine.
None of what you accuse Israelis of is part of their policy. Shelling Israeli civilians is exactly part of the policies of Hezbollah and Hamas. Does the Israeli constitution call for killing all the Arabs? No, it doesn’t. Does the Hamas Charter call for killing all the Jews? Sure does.

Arabs live in peace in Israel. Some are in the IDF. Some are in the Israeli parliament. How many Jews are there in Gaza? (none) How many in Egypt (100, down from 80,000) How many in Morocco? (3500, down from 350,000) How many hold high office in the armies or governments of any Arab state? (none)

Nobody could look at those facts and imagine that Arab ill-treatment of Jews is due to Jewish ill-treatment of Arabs, unless one simply wanted to beat up on the Jews and believe anti-Israeli propaganda. If Israel wanted there to be no Arabs at all in Israel, it could get it done tomorrow. But no, it allows Arab Israelis into its officer corps and Knesset. It allows some 100,000 West Bank Palestinians to work in Israel daily. It licenses 10,000 West Bank Palestinian businessmen to travel freely into Israel to do business.

How many Jews do the Arab countries allow to travel freely from Israel into their countries to work or to do business?

If Israel wanted there to be no Arabs in the West Bank, it would take a little longer, but it could do it.
You are aware the Ashkenazim treat Arab Jews badly right?
telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/bookreviews/4838496/Israels-humiliating-discrimination-against-Arab-Jews.html

Some statistics on how Israelis feel about Palestinians
59% want preference in public jobs for Jews over Arabs
49% want the state to treat Jews better than Arabs
33% object to Israeli Arabs having the right to vote
69% object to giving Palestinians the right to vote if Israel annexes the West Bank
74% support separate roads for Jews and Palestinians in the West Bank
42% object to their children going to the same schools as Arabs
source
Across the highway from Yaffa a-Nasra, the Arab village he has governed for 16 years, Khatib pointed to a modern industrial park, home to electronic and biotechnology plants. It lies within the Jewish municipality of Migdal Emek.
“Whenever the central government builds a new industrial area, it gets located in a Jewish town instead of an Arab town,” he said. “The Israeli towns get the local tax revenue and the jobs. Look, this highway separates our reality from theirs.”
Central government allocations for public services further skew the income gap. In public education, for example, the state invests about twice as much per Jewish pupil as per Arab pupil.
Nearly half of Israel’s Arabs live below the poverty line, and their rates of unemployment and infant mortality are twice the national average. They face obstacles securing residency permits for Arab spouses who are not Israeli. Exempt from military service, they do not qualify for thousands of higher-paying jobs reserved for veterans. They make up only 10% of Israel’s university undergraduates.
Arab leaders also chafe at limits on local autonomy, such as the Education Ministry requirement that all public schools use textbooks that teach history from a Jewish perspective.
source
 
Oh please. :rolleyes: If a failure to reason and face the realities of what is happening over there gets people a gold star then I don’t want one. The incident mentioned was well reported on. The Palestinians stopped a group of terrorists from launching rockets half a mile away and their reward from Israel was to have tanks shell a playground and kill their children 30 minutes later. Don’t be surprised if they let the rockets fly next time.
No good. You can’t back away from it.

Go ahead and document your assertion that IDF forces killed Arab children for their amusement. That’s what you said, now take responsibility for it.

And right after that, you might wish to source some other libels of which you are fond; maybe a quote or two from the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” or something?
 
Do recall that when the Germans in WWI took over Alsace Lorraine they totally proscribed French.

Re Alsace. Totally wrong. The Germans did not take over Alsace and Lorraine in WWI. It was part of Germany before WWI started. At the outbreak of the war, France tried to take it away, but failed. It was given to France by the allies at the end of the war.
 
You are aware the Ashkenazim treat Arab Jews badly right?
telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/bookreviews/4838496/Israels-humiliating-discrimination-against-Arab-Jews.html

Some statistics on how Israelis feel about Palestinians

source

source
These left-wing articles are supposed to impress?

So Israeli Sabras aren’t as keen on Jewish immigrants (from Arab countries) as they are of their own? Why is that odd? Remember “No Irish need apply?” Remember “If Kennedy is elected, the Pope will take over”? That happens in every country in every age, and it’s something every nation has to work out. On the other hand, all Jews have the right to return to Israel and become Israelis, no matter where they’re from and no matter what their ethnic mix is. In what Arab country do all Arabs from anywhere have an absolute right to go there to live and become citizens? (None)

And the great majority of Israeli Jews support the right of Arab Israelis to vote, but aren’t favorable to the hostile Arab residents of the West Bank voting in Israeli elections? Well, Mexican citizens of the U.S. have the right to vote, but Mexican nationals who are not citizens don’t. Do you think that’s terrible as well?

And lots of Israelis don’t have much trust in Palestinians? Well now, there’s a big surprise. Thousands of rockets on your civilian areas per year and the occasional suicide bomber can make a person a bit wary.

But even the hate-Israel-left can’t deny that Arab Israelis live better than Arabs anywhere except in the oil states (if they’re citizens of the oil states). And the most virulent Israel-hating leftist can’t deny that Arab countries do not allow Jews to serve in the armed forces or participate in the government, whereas Arabs in Israel can do both.

And just to clarify, the Israeli Defense Force does not draft Arabs. That’s true. They only draft Jews, Circassians and Druze. Arabs can, however, volunteer to serve in the IDF, and some do, particularly among the Arab Bedouin in Israel.
 
These left-wing articles are supposed to impress?

So Israeli Sabras aren’t as keen on Jewish immigrants (from Arab countries) as they are of their own? Why is that odd? Remember “No Irish need apply?” Remember “If Kennedy is elected, the Pope will take over”? That happens in every country in every age, and it’s something every nation has to work out. On the other hand, all Jews have the right to return to Israel and become Israelis, no matter where they’re from and no matter what their ethnic mix is. In what Arab country do all Arabs from anywhere have an absolute right to go there to live and become citizens? (None)

And the great majority of Israeli Jews support the right of Arab Israelis to vote, but aren’t favorable to the hostile Arab residents of the West Bank voting in Israeli elections? Well, Mexican citizens of the U.S. have the right to vote, but Mexican nationals who are not citizens don’t. Do you think that’s terrible as well?

And lots of Israelis don’t have much trust in Palestinians? Well now, there’s a big surprise. Thousands of rockets on your civilian areas per year and the occasional suicide bomber can make a person a bit wary.

But even the hate-Israel-left can’t deny that Arab Israelis live better than Arabs anywhere except in the oil states (if they’re citizens of the oil states). And the most virulent Israel-hating leftist can’t deny that Arab countries do not allow Jews to serve in the armed forces or participate in the government, whereas Arabs in Israel can do both.

And just to clarify, the Israeli Defense Force does not draft Arabs. That’s true. They only draft Jews, Circassians and Druze. Arabs can, however, volunteer to serve in the IDF, and some do, particularly among the Arab Bedouin in Israel.
Wasn’t the entire point of the creation of Israel to create a homeland for all Jews and thus treating some Jews as second class citizens is counter to that? (Well that and the British were sick of Zionist terrorists attacking their people and wanted to cut their losses.)

Originally the Mandate of Palestine was set up as conservatorship to prepare Palestine for independence according to the League of Nations anyway.

If the Palestinians are an independent state then they are violating international law with the transferring of people into occupied territory, if it is not a state and part of Israel then Israel is an apartheid state, pick your poison mate.

How about that Zeitoun incident? The Israelis wont investigate a case that is either intentional malice on part of the commander or gross negligence.
 
Wasn’t the entire point of the creation of Israel to create a homeland for all Jews and thus treating some Jews as second class citizens is counter to that? (Well that and the British were sick of Zionist terrorists attacking their people and wanted to cut their losses.)

.
Sephardic Jews are not “second class citizens” in Israel. They have the same rights as Ashkenazi Jews have. Because some Sephardim come from primitive places and have primitive ways and often require significant state support, some of the more sophisticated Ashkenazi look down on them. Want to compare that with blacks in the U.S.? With recent immigrants? One is put to at least think about the Guatemalans who are not only sometimes looked down on by the “Anglos”, but by the Mexicans and Salvadorans as well.

And how about the blacks who are starved, raped, enslaved, shot and bombed in some of the Arabic countries? Where’s your indignation over that? And what of the Taureg who have essentially been driven out of Libya? And the Jews who have been driven out of every Arab country. Where’s the indignation?

So, you expect social perfection from Israel, but from no one else. No surprise.
 
If the Palestinians are an independent state then they are violating international law with the transferring of people into occupied territory, if it is not a state and part of Israel then Israel is an apartheid state, pick your poison mate.
My poison? Pick my poison? Your false choice, you mean?

How about this instead of my selecting one of the false choices?

The Palestinians in the West Bank are not an independent state. Never have been. Israel does not claim the West Bank is part of Israel. So neither of your alternatives is valid.

Gaza, on the other hand, is a de facto independent Palestinian state. There are no Jewish settlers in Gaza. Gaza is not part of Israel and Israel does not claim that it is. Gaza is an apartheid state (as nearly every Arab country is) inasmuch as it does not tolerate the presence of Jews there, including Jews who formerly lived there for many years. Inasmuch as Hamas may well come to rule in the West Bank as well as in Gaza, and inasmuch as its charter calls for the killing of all Jews wherever found, it and the Third Reich would likely be the most apartheid states the world has ever known.
 
Sephardic Jews are not “second class citizens” in Israel. They have the same rights as Ashkenazi Jews have. Because some Sephardim come from primitive places and have primitive ways and often require significant state support, some of the more sophisticated Ashkenazi look down on them. Want to compare that with blacks in the U.S.? With recent immigrants? One is put to at least think about the Guatemalans who are not only sometimes looked down on by the “Anglos”, but by the Mexicans and Salvadorans as well.

And how about the blacks who are starved, raped, enslaved, shot and bombed in some of the Arabic countries? Where’s your indignation over that? And what of the Taureg who have essentially been driven out of Libya? And the Jews who have been driven out of every Arab country. Where’s the indignation?

So, you expect social perfection from Israel, but from no one else. No surprise.
Just to summarize a little, when you hear about something less-than-compassionate that the Israeli Jews are doing, you remember that nobody is perfect, and that the government of Arab nations are not innocent either.

You feel disappointed when someone wants Israel to behave differently, and you are thinking that a person critical of Israeli policies should pay attention to all of the atrocities that happen in other states as well.

I comply with your request. I do pay attention to the apartheid-like regimes in other places, and I share your disappointment with those other regimes. I would like them to honor and respect human rights and freedom of religion, among other things.

For me, the difference with Israel is that my tax dollars and my friends’ children in the U.S. military are continuing to support and go to war for a regime that is doing things that very normally trigger a lot of anger, and the confiscation of land is an example. No amount of “the Arabs do bad stuff too” is going to erase this anger, because Palestinians are reacting to what is hitting them at their doorstep. Sure, other nations do plenty of illegal and/or immoral actions also, but we do not, with some rare exceptions, support those countries with money and our children’s lives.

The Palestinians are angry and frustrated, and so are the Israelis. Both want autonomy, and there are plenty of people on both sides who want the land that the other has, but the more powerful side is continuing to get their way.

If you were born a Palestinian in the West Bank, what would you do?
 
Just to summarize a little, when you hear about something less-than-compassionate that the Israeli Jews are doing, you remember that nobody is perfect, and that the government of Arab nations are not innocent either.

You feel disappointed when someone wants Israel to behave differently, and you are thinking that a person critical of Israeli policies should pay attention to all of the atrocities that happen in other states as well.

I comply with your request. I do pay attention to the apartheid-like regimes in other places, and I share your disappointment with those other regimes. I would like them to honor and respect human rights and freedom of religion, among other things.

For me, the difference with Israel is that my tax dollars and my friends’ children in the U.S. military are continuing to support and go to war for a regime that is doing things that very normally trigger a lot of anger, and the confiscation of land is an example. No amount of “the Arabs do bad stuff too” is going to erase this anger, because Palestinians are reacting to what is hitting them at their doorstep. Sure, other nations do plenty of illegal and/or immoral actions also, but we do not, with some rare exceptions, support those countries with money and our children’s lives.

The Palestinians are angry and frustrated, and so are the Israelis. Both want autonomy, and there are plenty of people on both sides who want the land that the other has, but the more powerful side is continuing to get their way.

If you were born a Palestinian in the West Bank, what would you do?
It isn’t a matter of “the Arabs do it too”, though I do think a lot of people expect perfection of Israel while not expecting it of other countries, even of the U.S. itself.

But it’s deeper than that. Israel is dealing with a very rough neighborhood; a neighborhood that treats Jews cruelly and would kill them all if it could. In judging Israel against an ideal, which many are wont to do, commentators often forget that Israel cannot avoid doing some things, and it understandably has difficulty forgetting some things. If an entire people wants you dead and says so, you are going to be suspicious of them. How suspicious were we of the Soviets back in the last century? One might be reminded how, back at the beginning of that century, people even felt compelled to rename sauerkraut “liberty cabbage”. And what of the “Kill the Jap” stuff during WWII. Israel is quite mild by comparison.

To whatever extent Ashkenazi Jews look down on (some but certainly not all) Sephardic Jews, that’s a fault and something the Israelis should work to correct, just as we in the U.S. should work to correct the even worse racism in this country. All people should be good. I’ll agree with that.

First, Israel is not the only country to which the U.S. gives support. And the only support the U.S. gives Israel is in the form of military hardware. We do the same for Jordan. We give both hardware and billions of dollars to Egypt, for example. We are not fighting any wars for Israel or for Egypt, and never have. Nor for any Arab countries other than Iraq, Lebanon and Kuwait. We have never fired a shot for Israel.

And if I was a Palestinian, and if I had the kind of knowledge my Palestinian friends do, my attitude would probably be just like theirs, as follows:

Israelis are trustworthy in their dealing, but are hard bargainers. When it comes to security, they’re strict. They can be arrogant, but they’re fair. They are excellent manufacturers and businessmen, and I make money doing business with them. I would also think, as my friends do, that the biggest danger to me is not the Israelis, but the “gangs” that permeate much of the Middle East. Some are Islamist ideologues. Some are ambitious for power. Some are just criminals. If I were one of my Palestinian friends, I would be very glad I (barely) survived that wedding party blast in Amman. I would feel very bad that the young lady next to me had her head blown off by some gang about which she knew nothing. I would feel bad that my cousin was assassinated because he obtained work permits for Palestinians in Israel. I would also be very glad my “tribe” is one of the largest in Palestine, because that affords me at least a fair amount of protection. I wish there could be peace in the area because both Israelis and Palestinians could make the area one of the richest on earth if they would make real peace. I would know as sure as I know my own name that the worst enemies of Palestinian Arabs are other Arabs, not Israelis. I will do business with Israelis and Arabs. I will not do any business with Iran or Hezbollah, and wouldn’t go into their areas for any reason at all. There are a few terrorists in my tribe, distantly related. I have nothing to do with them.

Every last bit of that came from them.
 
Where’s the condemnation without pointing fingers at someone else? It seems that there’s a mindset that Israel can do no wrong. Are you willing to unequivocally condemn this:

Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent
As I understand the article, Ethiopian immigrants, some of which were Jews and (other source) some of which were not, were reported as given shots believed to be the contraceptive Depo-Provera by health workers. Apparently Haaretz, then the Ministry of Health learned of it. The latter then instructed health workers not to give contraceptives to any Ethiopian women who didn’t understand what the contraceptives were doing and want them.

The article does not seem to have verified that the health workers were, in fact, doing it.

If it’s true, it’s a bad thing. I don’t know why, and the article doesn’t explain, why these health workers were doing it if, in fact, that is what they were doing. The writer seems to be assuming it was Depo-Provera, but doesn’t actually know.

If they were giving these women contraceptives without them knowing it, again, it was a bad thing. In the U.S. we quit doing that (except with the mentally retarded to whom we still do it) a good forty years ago.

There seems to be something else here. Evidently there is some question whether these women really are Jews or perhaps simply people who would rather live in Israel than in Ethiopia. If anyone born in Israel of one claiming to be Jewish is automatically a citizen, it could be someone wanted to prevent that, pending investigation into whether they really are Jews or some other kind of immigrant.

But, as a Catholic, I would disapprove of it even so, just as I would if suspected illegal immigrants to the U.S. were given contraceptives pending investigation into whether they were legal or illegal, in order to prevent conception of “anchor babies”.

I wouldn’t approve of that any more than I approve of obama ordering Catholic nuns to insure themselves with contraceptive and abortifacient coverage or pay fines they can’t pay, as he has.

But I question whether it’s truly racism despite some allegations that it was. Netanyahu seemed actually to be questioning whether they really were Jews at all, not whether they were white, black or brown.
 
Sephardic Jews are not “second class citizens” in Israel. They have the same rights as Ashkenazi Jews have. Because some Sephardim come from primitive places and have primitive ways and often require significant state support, some of the more sophisticated Ashkenazi look down on them. Want to compare that with blacks in the U.S.? With recent immigrants? One is put to at least think about the Guatemalans who are not only sometimes looked down on by the “Anglos”, but by the Mexicans and Salvadorans as well.

And how about the blacks who are starved, raped, enslaved, shot and bombed in some of the Arabic countries? Where’s your indignation over that? And what of the Taureg who have essentially been driven out of Libya? And the Jews who have been driven out of every Arab country. Where’s the indignation?

So, you expect social perfection from Israel, but from no one else. No surprise.
Just because Sephardim were coming from third world countries doesn’t mean they had primitive ways. Most Ashkenazim also needed extensive state support.

What are you talking about? Plenty of Jews moved because of instability and pursuit of better economic opportunity.

Where did I say I “expect social perfection from Israel, but from no one else”?
My poison? Pick my poison? Your false choice, you mean?

How about this instead of my selecting one of the false choices?

The Palestinians in the West Bank are not an independent state. Never have been. Israel does not claim the West Bank is part of Israel. So neither of your alternatives is valid.

Gaza, on the other hand, is a de facto independent Palestinian state. There are no Jewish settlers in Gaza. Gaza is not part of Israel and Israel does not claim that it is. Gaza is an apartheid state (as nearly every Arab country is) inasmuch as it does not tolerate the presence of Jews there, including Jews who formerly lived there for many years. Inasmuch as Hamas may well come to rule in the West Bank as well as in Gaza, and inasmuch as its charter calls for the killing of all Jews wherever found, it and the Third Reich would likely be the most apartheid states the world has ever known.
So then what is the West Bank? What about the 12% of the West Bank that is fenced off from the rest of it?

Israel is still occupying it (it controls the airspace and the coast).
 
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