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SamH
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When did I suggest violence? You might want to be more careful in tossing around accusations.
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mdrummer5
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You seem to want to support the idea of burning a Koran for every person who’s killed by an extremist with the knowledge that it will result in more violence. While the suggestion itself is not violent, it will lead to violence… I’m not saying the violence is justified but it will happen.
But if you’re ok with knowing that you’d be inadvertantly causing more people to be killed go ahead… call up your local news and burn another one.
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Big_Dummy
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I think we should blame the media for even giving him a means of comunication to the world. One would think that Jones, should have been aware that non-christians would die over this and likely, someone who is not saved would die without Christ. 
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Prodigal_Son1
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We are not to sin, or cause others to sin…I think we should blame the media for even giving him a means of comunication to the world. One would think that Jones, should have been aware that non-christians would die over this and likely, someone who is not saved would die without Christ.
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mdrummer5
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Yea… but our freedom of speech takes precedence over His word… right?
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iamrefreshed
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Paranoia? Tell that to the Christians of Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iran etc…
Wait, don’t…they are dead.
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SamH
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Where did I support that?
Actually I’m of the opinion that any act will result in more violence. If international media outlets carried and promoted a story about 10 year old Christians and 10 year old Muslims joining together and having a soccer game and a friendly meal afterwards I’m sure we’d have similar violence being reported. The game itself might be attacked.
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iamrefreshed
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Let’s not get carried away here.
Maybe there would be violence if the 10 year old Muslim’s were girls.
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mdrummer5
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My apologies for misunderstanding your opinion.
I do realize that there are way more other things that will “set them off” that don’t even involve intentionally “poking” them. I’m not suggesting we avoid doing those things… I’m suggesting we avoid doing things that are blatantly insulting or at the very least the ones that we can recognize that we would find insulting.
Sure they’ve burned the bible… using that as a justification to do the same is childish and disrespectful. Even though we don’t agree with what they believe does our belief not dictate that we show them respect? I ask again… WWJD?
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Raskolnikov
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I know a Lebanese Christian. He has nothing good to say about Hezbollah, but I’ll tell you this: his worst memories are not of Muslims, they’re of Israeli soldiers. I’ve also had lectures and discussions with a secular Lebanese Christian political scientist, and while there is undoubtedly tension betwixt the Lebanese Christians and Muslims, it is certainly not Dhimmitude. Nor is 40% of the Lebanese population dead. How could so many of them support Hezbollah (for whatever reason) if the Muslims already killed them?Paranoia? Tell that to the Christians of Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iran etc…
Wait, don’t…they are dead.
Christians in Egypt have it worse than the ones in Lebanon, but better than the ones Iraq. One thing to note, of course, is that Egyptian Christians are on average economically better off than the rest of the population. Undoubtedly one source of tension. Anyway, the situations of Christians in each of those countries are very different from each other, so I don’t know why you lump them together. It’s much better to be a Christian in Beirut than in Baghdad.
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estesbob
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I was wondering how long was going to take before the Jews got drug into the thread.
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Rich_Olszewski
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No one needs be spared. All deserve a drubbing.
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Raskolnikov
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iamrefreshed basically declared the situation of Christians in Lebanon to be as simple as Muslims killing Christians. I figured maybe the actual experience of Lebanese Christians might be relevant. And this is, after all, a thread about the Middle East. It’s always only a matter of time before Israel is mentioned. Try having a thread about Israel without “the Muslims” eventually being dragged into it.
And hey! At least I didn’t compare anyone to Hitler.
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iamrefreshed
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Just answering your assertation that I am paranoid. Not a nice thing to call someone BTW.
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GraceSofia
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Rarely were the Muslims “better” occupiers. Jihadism is NOT a Christian “habit.”Muslims killed 80 million Hindus between 1000 AD (conquest of Afghanistan) and 1525 (end of Delhi Sultanate). In fact, Hindu Kush means Hindu Slaughter.
For information about the Muslim invasion and brutal occupation of Spain: The Myth of the Andalusian Paradise
No, Muslim terrorism is as old as Islam, although the weapons have changed. Now they can use airplanes. Talking about Turkey, the older generation were indeed just as fanatical and muderous. The massacre by Turks of Greeks on the island of Chios, the massacre of Greeks in Smyrna and burning of the city (1922), the invasion of northern Cyprus in 1974, the pogrom of Istanbul in 1955, etc, etc. The Greek population of Istanbul went from 120,000 in 1927 to about 2,000 today, which is very telling, while in Greece, the Muslim population steadily increases.
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Raskolnikov
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Sorry. It’s my kneejerk reaction to the any hint of theory that Muslims are taking over the world.
Could you post a link or refer to a book or article please. The conservative Christian Indian writer Dinesh D’Souza once commented in response to critic of Islam Robert Spencer as fllows (I’ll quote the whole passage 'cause it’s interesting):
“In arguing his thesis Spencer locates all the violent verses in the Koran and all the hideous deeds performed by Islamic conquerors, especially in their early centuries of irredentist expansion. Then he links these to the words and actions of Khomeini, Bin Laden and today’s Islamic radicals. Spencer is an effective polemicist.”[23]
Spencer’s “historical argument is dubious. It emphasizes violent passages in the Koran, while downplaying the passages that urge peace and goodwill. It applies a moral standard to Islamic empires that certainly could not be met by the Roman empire or the empires established by the Portuguese, the Spanish, the French and the British. In the Spain of Ferdinand and Isabella, for example, Jews had three choices: convert to Christianity, leave the country, or be killed. No Muslim empire legislated or systematically enforced such a policy toward its religious minorities.”[23]
"Yes, the Koran says ‘slay the infidels’ but no Muslim empire actually did that. For example the Muslims ruled North India for two centuries before they were displaced by the British. The Mughal emperors could have killed the tens of millions of Hindus under their control, or at least forced them to become Muslims. They did nothing of the sort.[23]
“Spencer glibly jumps over entire centuries in linking, say, the savagery of the Ottomans in Constantinople with the savagery of Hezbollah in Lebanon or the Taliban in Afghanistan.”
edit: this exerpt is from D’Souza’s wikipedia.
I could be wrong, I don’t know a lot about Indian history. D’Souza could be too, but I think he knows quite a bit about it.
Jihadism is not in Christian teaching, but it has unfortunately been a Christian habit fairly often. Look up “The Northern Crusades” against the Baltic “pagan” countries. The Mideast crusades were also far from a chiefy defensive excercise as well. There was the oppression of the protestant Huguenots in France, and the Auto de fe of the Jews in Spain. There are unfortunately many examples in history of Christians behaving in a juhadist fashion.
As far as Spain is concerned, the article mentions that the early invaders granted religious autonomy, but later oppression increassed. It increased from the Spanish side as well, because the conflict became more heated and nationistic and religious sentiment heightened. Try reading about the experience of Jews in Spain up through the end of the 18th century. Christians most certainly did not liberate the Spanish Jews. In fact, Jews were less oppressed in most of the Ottoman Empire than in Spain into the 19th century.
And why exactly do you categorize these incidents as terrorism or call them Islamic? Even Christian European countries massacred civilians of enemy peoples during that time. The Russians and the Poles during the Soviet Polish War of 1921 had similar events, yet no one would claim this the result of Orthodox-Catholic tensions. The Turks and the Greeks had claims to the same swaths of land. That kind of conflict tends to incite ethnic cleansing. The Turks who did this wre not Islamists; they were radical Nationalists (many wre “Young Turks” who were more liberal and secular than the old monarchist traditionalists; at that time, of course, nationalism and racialism often went hand in hand with liberalism). Attaturk, the founder of modern Turkey, was a secularist, as were most of the elite at that time. The increase in religious sentiment in Turkey is a modern phenomenon and the military, still largely dominated by secilar minded people (who are also, btw, Muslims, just not fanatical ones), has been in conflict with the increadsingly religious state fr this reason. Samuel Huntington “Clash of Civilizatios” outlines the radicalization of Islam in the Middle-East fairly well. It wasn’t radical in the first place though, for radicalization to occur. I’ll quote particular exerpts from the article if I still have it.
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Scott_Lafrance
Guest
Not paranoia. Islam’s goal is to take over the world. You’re right to feel like its happening, because it is.Just answering your assertation that I am paranoid. Not a nice thing to call someone BTW.
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SamH
Guest
So when do you plan to convert to Islam? Anything less is a provocation.
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Scott_Lafrance
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You don’t HAVE to convert. You’re other options are to agree to live in dhimmitude or…die. So there you go. If you don’t want to offend Muslims you have 3 options:
- Convert to Islam
- Live as a subhuman under Muslim law without the freedom to worship as you please.
- Die.
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Rich_Olszewski
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Islam isn’t taking over the world and never will. What progress are they having in South America, in China, Korea, Southeast Asia, and China? How about in North America and in Australia and the South Pacific?
Is the best of their armies much more than tolerably competent? Think the Turks can sweep across Europe? No way. And, who’s in charge, by the way?
To me, it’s all “The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming” with “The Muslims” substituting for the Russians.
Spencer is IMO a professional Muslim hater who, unfortunately, finds willing listeners among the fearful. I am personally contemptuous of anyone who thinks so little of his own civilization and the might of his armies that he could believe that the Muslims could ever prevail in battle or in any other way.
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