UN staff killed in Afghan protest over Quran burning in US

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LemonAndLime said:
Exactly. Those who say the Pastor has done nothing wrong and is not to blame should perhaps look at their own political agenda/motives for failing to see the clear blame that the Pastor deserves.

Let me give an example I gave on a different thread about this. John and his girlfriend Jane are out drinking in a pub, and a man called Bob walks past and shouts that John’s girlfriend is ugly and a whore. John then punches Bob in the face.

Is Bob to blame for being punched? Well, yes he clearly wanted a reaction and he got one. John is still responsible for his own actions, but who are you going to have the more sympathy for? The aggressor or the “responding” aggression?

To be honest, this whole situation reminds me of some stupid person poking a bull in the eye with a stick - to prove that a bull will react aggressively. 🤷
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My response is the same as it was in the other thread, except I would add that they not only call for death, they actually commit murder because they are offended. I guess I posted that below after the Koran was burned, but before the violence had started.
SwizzleStick said:
Not to be unkind, but you seem to be making excuses for violent behavior and extreme reactions to small offenses. Such violent behavior cannot be justified. Ever. Marking people for death, actually killing people because a book has been burned cannot be justified. Ever. Such violent behavior just cannot be excused or accepted, even if it has become expected.

Your punching and girlfriend analogy quoted above would have been more on the mark had you said the man killed the other because of the insult to the girlfirend because that scenario is more comparable to the reactions we are discussing. Punching is not what some Muslims do when they are offended. They call for death, which is quite an extreme reaction which has no place in civilized society.
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He_Man said:
Like I said, way to promote your religion of peace. So let’s recap: Pastor is a fool, and the Muslims who killed the tourists are murderers.
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That is an accurate, succinct way to put it, yes. Jones is an idiot, but he is not responsible for the evil choices of murderers.
 
"CNN won’t air ‘hateful’ interview with pastor who burned Quran

On CNN’s John King USA show Friday night King said he had a “lengthy interview” with Pastor Terry Jones, who has presided over burning the Quran earlier this month. But viewers will never see King’s interview."…

Entire article: content.usatoday.com/communities/Religion/post/2011/04/quran-koran-cnn-florida-pastor-terry-jones/1

An accurate assessment of the situation found in the comments following the article:

**"Leave it to the conservative nut-jobs to get the Muslim world chanting “death to America” again.

I know, right? Just when we had gotten all the Muslims to forgo violence and embrace America, this guy had to go and ruin it.​

Yea! I getting used to not seeing the American flag being burned or effigies of Bush on fire being carried around.**
 
I posted this in the other thread, but I’ll put it here too. Is Jones responsible for the continued violence too? If it continues on with more deaths next week, next month, is Jones responsible? Or, do these choices and the responsibility for them rest solely on the murderers?

"Deadly Protests for Koran Burning Reach Kandahar

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan — Violent protests over the burning of a Koran in Florida flared for a second straight day, with young men rampaging through the streets of this southern capital, flying Taliban flags and wielding sticks.

Nine people were killed and 81 injured in the disturbances, all from bullet wounds, according to Abdul Qayoum Pakhla, head of the provincial health department."…

Entire article: nytimes.com/2011/04/03/world/asia/03afghanistan.html?hp
 
SwizzleStick said:
Of course, this violence was not unexpected. That doesn’t mean it is acceptable or excusable in any way.

"Deadly Protests for Koran Burning Reach Kandahar

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan — Violent protests over the burning of a Koran in Florida flared for a second straight day, with young men rampaging through the streets of this southern capital, flying Taliban flags and wielding sticks.

Nine people were killed and 81 injured in the disturbances, all from bullet wounds, according to Abdul Qayoum Pakhla, head of the provincial health department. "…

Entire article: nytimes.com/2011/04/03/world/asia/03afghanistan.html?_r=1&hp
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On the News this morning and todays Newpapers, Seven Killed in Afghan. and American Flags burn’t as a direct result to “this” incidence.

Fustration and Anger dealt with in an inapropriate manner results in exactly this kind of chaos.

And this is why we constantly preach the NT message. And if you want a change to occur? You have a proven path to follow in the legacy of great Christian/Catholic leader’s of last century like Dr King or Thomas Merton and Catholic Free Press of NYC.

Being angry and fustrated is fine, but its a feeling. Whats important is how you act off that feeling. In this case with islam, isolated acts of ignorance will start a chain of slaughter by an already violent, barbaric culture. Its a no-win situation where Good Moral people become sacrificed by an ingnorant act.

Think of what you “can” do in a manner of peace. Make your goals small and obtainable, and set out to accomplish them. When you “correctly” appeal to Good, Moral and Right of the US they will listen to you. Acts of stupitidy will result in the opposite and cause those we are trying to reach to shut down.

I see many from the South getting upset and speaking out. And thats fine. All we saying is channel your feelings and energy “correctly.”

God Bless, Gary
 
I posted on the other thread also. Yes he is responsible in the sense he initiated this.

And this why we don’t act of our feelings in an ignorant manner. Two wrongs never made anything right.

The path is peaceful protest just as Dr King and Merton did in the 60’s.

Its what can we do? That is rational, can be accomplished, and have an impact on the Good Moral silent majority, without violence, arrest etc.

Then your acting for the Good, Moral the Right. When this is meet with violence, then you infuriate the Good people of this country, not have them withdraw because they think your ignorant, crazy and just got 7-people killed for no good reason.

God Bless, Gary
 
lynx said:
I’m not saying take legal action, unless you can quote me on it, i’m saying hold him accountable for some of the blame. You can’t imprison someone for exercising their 1st amendment rights, like the WBC, but you can still blame them and hold them accountable for the damage they cause. How you ask? First, stop listening to anything this man says. Second, shun him from remaining society. Without an outlet for his message he’s effectively dead.
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Yes indeed. Ideas have consequences.
Likewise, we ought not imprison people on the left for the apologia that they offer on behalf of Islam in general and radical Islam. We can and do note the irreparable harm that their weak-kneed responses to Islam and most expecially radical Islam brings upon our world though. The politics of appeasement is a cowardly response and it ensures that bullies rule.

This pastor is a narcissist, an egomaniac, vile in every way. We can hold him responsible for that. Ergo, he has been condemned here by all for being the idiot he is.
However, the Islamists are murderers, of both the hot-blooded and cold-blooded variety. By murdering for the Koran as they do, they have created a prophet out of this vile pastor.

The vile man speaks the vile truth about these vile Muslim and their vile religion. Their murders in the name of Allah, Mohammed, and the Koran have made this so.

Nobody expected anything different from the Islamists actually, especially not those on the left.
 
SwizzleStick said:
They are dead because evil fanatics killed them.
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What triggered these men to sin in such a fashion? Perhaps the below post will mean more to you.
the_phoenix said:
Seems to me there are a few Catholics around here who could benefit from reading the Bible passage 1 Corinthians 8. It talks about how Christians should not give scandal by their behavior to non-Christians with different beliefs. While the particular passage involves not eating meat sacrificed to pagan idols, I think some of it can be applied to Muslims and not burning the Koran.

“When you sin in this way against your brothers and wound their consciences, weak as they are, you are sinning against Christ. Therefore, if food causes my brother to sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I may not cause my brother to sin.” ~ 1** Corinthians 8:12-13**

Try substituting “food” and “eat meat” with “burn the Koran” and you can see what I mean …

**“When you sin in this way against your brothers and wound their consciences, weak as they are, you are sinning against Christ. Therefore, if **burning the Koran ****causes my brother to sin, I will never burn the Koran …, so that I may not cause my brother to sin.”
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lynx said:
What triggered these men to sin in such a fashion? Perhaps the below post will mean more to you.
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Your blame is misplaced. Nothing but their own evil choices triggered these fanatical men to sin in such a fashion. While Jones also made a foolish and evil choice to provoke them, those who let rage rule them enough to commit murder are responsible for their own acts. Just because one is provoked does not mean one has to respond. Surely, you don’t mean to suggest that it is reasonable that murder is a justifiable response to burning a book, even if it is sacred text to some? Yes, that response has come to be expected now, but it is not at all reasonable or acceptable.
SwizzleStick said:
Not to be unkind, but you seem to be making excuses for violent behavior and extreme reactions to small offenses. Such violent behavior cannot be justified. Ever. Marking people for death, actually killing people because a book has been burned cannot be justified. Ever. Such violent behavior just cannot be excused or accepted, even if it has become expected. …
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Perhaps the quote below will mean something to you.

“You have heard the commandment, ‘An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth,’. But, what I say to you is: offer no resistance to injury. When a person strikes you on the right cheek, turn and offer him the other.”

Matthew 5:38-39
 
The excerpted part of the post below tells it like it is without mincing words.
Darryl1958 said:
…This pastor is a narcissist, an egomaniac, vile in every way. We can hold him responsible for that. Ergo, he has been condemned here by all for being the idiot he is.

However, the Islamists are murderers, of both the hot-blooded and cold-blooded variety. …
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lynx said:
What triggered these men to sin in such a fashion? Perhaps the below post will mean more to you.
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Quoting the Bible does not further your case because you do not believe int it. To convince people of your logic you have to be consistent independently of the Bible. Otherwise you do not have credibility.
 
lynx said:
What triggered these men to sin in such a fashion? Perhaps the below post will mean more to you.
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Quoting the Bible does not further your case because you do not believe in it. To convince people of your logic you have to be consistent independently of the Bible. Otherwise you do not have credibility.
 
lynx said:
Who’s justifying the acts of radical Islam in this article?
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It is not just an article I have linked, but an entire website I am linking to. Augean Stables gives the point of view that would explain the statement that you quoted from me.
If you sincerely want to begin to have an inkling of what I am talking about, a five minute scan of a single article will not get you anywhere.

For there is not a single source. There are a million. I am not giving you a smoking gun. What I am giving you is a glance at the world view that informs my thoughts.

Once you understand that world view, then which poster here will choose to focus mainly on the guilt of the vile Christian pastors, and poster which will focus on the actions of murderous Islamic thugs becomes almost entirely predictable.

There is a secular leftist worldview, and there is a traditional Christian worldview. For the secular left, the Christian right is regarded as the greater enemy.
 
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