UN staff killed in Afghan protest over Quran burning in US

[SamH]

So… everyday, regular ISLAMIC people?

That to me is certainly saying that everyday regular Islamic people are violent.

But don’t worry, I will forgive you for your prejudice and for your denial of fault.

Just to remind you - I’m not the only person on this thread who has accused you of this.

I think the worst thing is that you are still trying to prove that the video shows that Islamic people are by nature violent, while ignoring my evidence that, by your logic, shows that Christian people are violent also. As of course, as one other poster has pointed out, you seem to think that one video is enough proof.

Apparenty you think finding Waldo is impossible.

 

[iamrefreshed]

So… everyday, regular ISLAMIC people?

That to me is certainly saying that everyday regular Islamic people are violent.

But don’t worry, I will forgive you for your prejudice and for your denial of fault.

Just to remind you - I’m not the only person on this thread who has accused you of this.

I think the worst thing is that you are still trying to prove that the video shows that Islamic people are by nature violent, while ignoring my evidence that, by your logic, shows that Christian people are violent also. As of course, as one other poster has pointed out, you seem to think that one video is enough proof.

Yes, everyday regular folk in that village. Read that, a few times if necessary.

Again you insult and call me prejudiced by words you place in my mouth.

That video proves that the majority of Muslims in that neighborhood condoned violence.

I am not using it to prove anything about all Islamic people.

I saw your video. People were carrying posters saying not nice things. How many people did they behead?

 

[SamH]

Yes, everyday regular folk in that village. Read that, a few times if necessary.

Again you insult and call me prejudiced by words you place in my mouth.

That video proves that the majority of Muslims in that neighborhood condoned violence.

I am not using it to prove anything about all Islamic people.

I saw your video. People were carrying posters saying not nice things. How many people did they behead?

It’s not just a village either:

Quran-Burning Protests Rage In Afghanistan
by The Associated Press

text size A A A April 3, 2011
Afghan protests against the burning of a Quran in Florida entered a third day with a demonstrations in the south and east Sunday, while the Taliban called on people to rise up, blaming government forces for any violence.

The desecration at a small U.S. church has outraged Muslims worldwide, and in Afghanistan many of the demonstrations have turned into deadly riots. Protests in the north and south in recent days have killed 20 people.

npr.org/2011/04/03/135086383/quran-burning-protests-rage-in-afghanistan?ft=1&f=1001

For some reason there are no (reported) Muslim protests against those that are acting violently and murdering people in the name of their religon.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

For some reason there are no (reported) Muslim protests against those that are acting violently and murdering people in the name of their religon.

Other than the possibility that they fear for their own lives?

 

[Raskolnikov]

SamH:

For some reason there are no (reported) Muslim protests against those that are acting violently and murdering people in the name of their religon.

Gee, why wouldn’t an Afghan go out in public, where he’d be visible and exposed, to protest against the action of some of his countrymen who have showed a clear willingness to kill people they’ve never met? Now, why wouldn’t they protest that? Maybe, it’s because they fear for their lives and safety, like almost everyone else in the world.

Here in the US we take for granted that we can protest, say, outside an abortion clinic, because we know the abortionist isn’t going to come out and abort us. Public protests in Afghanistan would be sitting ducks for terrorists. Violent minorities, unfortunately, are very efficient at keeping majorities docile. That’s why I’m not a pacifist, because if 99% of people were pacifists, the other 1% would rule the world.

 

[Darryl1958]

I say so.

Blasphemy laws have been repealed some time ago. Mind you, Christians and Jews sought for blasphemy laws to be extended to Islam at the time of the Rushdie furore. However, government decided to do away with the whole lot instead.

Burn a bible,there is no blaphemy law covering that, of course. That has been done away with. Ergo, any type of protest against the pope is legit. When it comes to saying anything against Christianity, Brits have total and absolute freedom.

Burn a koran, that is inciting hatred. There are laws against that.

This is what passes as freedom, in Britain, just as you say so.

And I say,
Good dhimmis, one and all.

 

[Robert_Bay]

NOTICE

Please charitably discuss the issues, not each other.

 

[Pork_Roll]

I think some islamicist there would kill for some reason no matter what. The Quran burning is just an excuse.

 

[John_Paul_Jones]

I never said the pastor might be convicted but he will be judged, as will we all.

So you hope that God will be merciful to Terry Jones, “because the way that you judge others will be the way that you will be judged, and you will be evaluated by the standard with which you evaluate others.”

Violent protests have broken out across Afghanistan in response to a Florida Protestant pastor’s decision to burn the Qur’an on March 20. At least 25 people died in unrest between April 1 …

More…

I’ve read there’s been 321 deaths.

People seem to be arguing for a man not to be held accountable for his actions, when he knew his actions could possibly have a violent outcome. Now he calling for all the people of the Islamic faith to be held accountable for the actions of those who committed the murders against innocent people, while planning more offensive acts against their faith. Can people really not see the bigotry in this pastor’s words and actions?

I think he had a trial for the koran, and then he did what he did, it wasn’t his intention for the people to riot and kill innocent people. I guess in his own mind he thought he was doing the will of God.

Using that logic, can we call Klan, or Nazi, members bigots? They truly believe in the supremacy of their race, with certain Klan members asserting segregation as Biblical and their Christian right.

If the pastor had any creative thought, he should had burn the kloran. Maybe something would had gotten lost in translations and we’d be in the same situation, with the rioting and the commotion and the running amuck like a Jerry Lewis mayhem-athon.

I completely agree with you. Probably also the pastor committed what I would call a mortal sin, but that is not the murder of the individuals.

He was talked to by the FBI and that should of been enough reason not to do what he did.

No one can predict the future I don’t think he understood that over 300 people would die, (maybe eventually more.) So if the deaths of the innocent was not he purpose for burning, but if he burn the koran because of some over-scrupulosity he didn’t commit a mortal sin if that was the case. Now if Terry Jones did it to be a gadfly and carried out some forbidden experiment. to prove islam has a violent minority within, or is prone to violence, and in his mind he could predict that his action will cause mayhem, than that would be sin of provocation.

I don’t claim to know international law and am serious in asking, can the pastor be charged with inciting a riot? Just wondering…

And what about the imams who psyched the crowds to a frenzy?

 

[LtTony]

Condemnation of this provacative act is nearly unanimous in the the thread, and I agree with that sentiment 100%.
While the Constitution technically protects this offensive behavior of the lunatic fringe, the pastor was plain wrong. He crossed a non-legal line of decency and behaved irresponsibily. He should be held crimininally or civily responsible for the deaths of those people.
As one poster put it, “If you know the Muslim world react violently to insults to their religion, you shouldn’t well… poke them with a stick. You can’t change how they are, but you can change how you are - therefore it’s Jones’ fault that these people died.”
Beyond that, the there’s no excuse for the Afghan reaction – the mobs or the clerics, either.

Quote it. Lay it out for me plainly, according to Islamic doctrine, the motives behind these murders according to the teachings.

According to some muslims, sharia can call for punishment (including death) for people who insult Mohammad. I guess they think it the equivalent of blashemy.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_blasphemy

Some hadith may provide insight to their reasoning.
usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/004.sbt.html

Also cited in these discussions are Bukhari, vol. 4, no. 2934; Muslim, vol. 3, nos. 4422, 4424; Bukhari vol. 5, no. 4037; Muslim vol. 3, no. 4436.

From the Koran: Sura 33:59-61, 9:73 and 123.

Near as I can tell, there is disagreement among muslims on this issue.

If a woman was dressed provacatively and gets raped, does some of the blame fall on her?

Do you think dressing provocatively will incite rape?

Upon reading this exchange, I initially thought, “There is no excuse for the crime of rape. It is a silly and extreme comparison.”
“But maybe discard rape, and consider unwanted touching, advances, crude remarks or glances, even salacious thoughts. Doesn’t a woman who dresses provacatively have some responsibility in these behaviors?”

I quickly concluded that this may be true on some level to some degree, but ultimately we are all responsible for our own actions. The woman *may *have her issues; her abusers have their own problems to worry about.

 

[Linda_Marie]

In Ethiopia, 69 churches were burnt and 10,000 Christians fled from the violence. This was before the Koran burning on the part of the Florida pastor.

In fact, I believe it was these actions on the part of Muslims that inspired the pastor to burn the Koran in the first place.

The Muslims in Ethiopia should have thought that their actions might lead to someone burning the Koran in protest before they headed out on their rampages against thousands of innocent Christians. They are responsible for the desecration of their own holy book.

Ethiopia: 10,000 Christians Flee Homes After 69 Churches Burned Down

Muslim extremists have burned down 69 Protestant churches-- 46 of them Pentecostal-- in southwestern Ethiopia. The violence started in the town of Asendabo following reports that the Qur’an was being flushed down the toilet at one of the churches.

Thirty homes, a school, and an orphanage have also been burned down; the number of Christians who have fled their homes has risen in recent days to 10,000, according to International Christian Concern, a human rights organization that assists victims of persecution.
<…>
“I don’t care who started the violence,” he added. “The fact is that thousands of local Muslims, my neighbors, have participated in it.

Just as in that Afghan village, it was the locals who did the rioting and rampaging, ordinary every day Muslims. No matter that the journalist used the word ‘extremists’, the witness says it was his neighbours.

 

[Santi2]

Burn a bible,there is no blaphemy law covering that, of course.

None. As I have previously mentioned, our blasphemy laws have been repealed. And where blasphemous conduct against the Bible has been committed over here, that was not by Muslims but, by a North American Christian.

“**Offer to deface Bible withdrawn **
An artist who created an artwork in which visitors were encouraged to deface a copy of the Bible has asked for it to be put in a glass case.
Jane Clarke, herself a Christian, had said she wanted people who felt marginalised to be able to write their stories back into the Bible.
But the exhibit, part of an exhibition about sexuality at Glasgow’s Gallery of Modern Art, was the subject of protest.
Christian groups complained visitors were writing obscene messages.
The Bible will remain on display in a glass case and the public will be able to write their comments in another book alongside.
Sheets from this book will be inserted in the Bible by curatorial staff.
Ms Clarke, who devised the exhibit, is a minister with the Metropolitan Community Church, which has a specific outreach to lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender communities…”
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8171452.stm

…any type of protest against the pope is legit. When it comes to saying anything against Christianity, Brits have total and absolute freedom.

I agree and, one must identify the groups which exercise untethered freedom of conduct and speech against the Holy Father and Christianity. One could start with the BCEW, then the British Humanist Association and the LGBT.

Burn a koran, that is inciting hatred. There are laws against that.

This is what passes as freedom, in Britain, just as you say so.

And I say,
Good dhimmis, one and all

The law is as it is and is fine as it is. It would explain why we ban Farrakhan, Phelps and Pastor Jones (and others of their ilk) from visiting the UK. And, if we are labeled “good dhimmis” for it, that is just fine as well.

 

[mdrummer5]

According to some muslims, sharia can call for punishment (including death) for people who insult Mohammad. I guess they think it the equivalent of blashemy.

What I find most ironic about this whole thing is that so many people here are quick to jump all over people of the muslim faith while apparently forgetting that Catholicism is not without it’s violent extremists. Nobody ever wants to hear about the Spanish Inquisition around here because it’s in the past and it’s a dark part of the Church that we don’t want people to focus on when discussing Catholicism.

What’s interesting is that if we look at the timing of it it’s not all that different. It took place about 1400 years after Christ’s death. The muslim faith has been around for about 1400 years. It was started because kingdoms wanted to maintain their faith… not all that different from what’s happening in Egypt right now. Jews were compelled to convert to Catholicism out of fear of violence and some Christians are converting to Islam for the same reason.

I think both groups are/were wrong for what they did and I do not want people to judge my faith based on the inquisition just like I’m sure most Muslims don’t want to be judged based on the extremists of their faith. Just something to consider before pointing a finger at the “violent Muslims”… we are not so different.

Edit: LtTony this is not directed at you, your post just made me think of it.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

So you hope that God will be merciful to Terry Jones, “because the way that you judge others will be the way that you will be judged, and you will be evaluated by the standard with which you evaluate others.”

Of course…for us and the whole world.

I think he had a trial for the koran, and then he did what he did, it wasn’t his intention for the people to riot and kill innocent people. I guess in his own mind he thought he was doing the will of God.

He had a trial…by what authority? Only he could state his ‘intention’. After what has happened, what do you think his intention would be to hold another trial for their prophet?

Another Jones probably thought he was doing the will of God. His name was Jim. A lot of people died then too.

And what about the imams who psyched the crowds to a frenzy?

They are guilty of sinning, Would they have ‘reacted’ without the pastor acting first? I saw a poster who stated, “The Quran burning is just an excuse.” Terry Jones gave those prone to violence the excuse.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Terry Jones gave those prone to violence the excuse.

Those prone to violence commit their sins themselves.

To blame another is akin to blaming a victim.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Those prone to violence commit their sins themselves.

To blame another is akin to blaming a victim.

Terry Jones is not a victim in this situation. His actions assigned the term victim to others in harms way…

 

[iamrefreshed]

Terry Jones is not a victim in this situation. His actions assigned the term victim to others in harms way…

The only reason anyone was in harms way was because individuals in Afghanistan acted of their own free will and killed them.

I guess you blame Theo Van Gogh for his murder? Yeah, he asked for it.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

The only reason anyone was in harms way was because individuals in Afghanistan acted of their own free will and killed them.

I guess you blame Theo Van Gogh for his murder? Yeah, he asked for it.

Thinking of this thread many things Christ said and did came to mind. Love one another. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Love your enemies. Pray for them that persecute you. He prayed for those to be forgiven that persecuted Him.

The early Christians were persecuted. Many were martyred, yet the Church not only survived it thrived and grew. My point is, all of this happened without violence on part of the Christians.

Why are so many Christians today supporting someone who provoked violence? Where did Christ teach to provoke or use violence? Since we are to strive to be like Him I think it’s a fair question.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

The only reason anyone was in harms way was because individuals in Afghanistan acted of their own free will and killed them.

I guess you blame Theo Van Gogh for his murder? Yeah, he asked for it.

They act of their own free will and killed, based on the provocation from the pastor.

 

[Publisher]

A follower of Jesus of Nazareth seeks the welfare of others before himself. Terry Jones cannot justify his actions by claiming to be a follower of Christ.

Are those Muslims who committed the violence guilty? Yes. Did Terry Jones contribute to the inciting of the violence? Yes. Were his actions in accord with the teaching of Jesus of Nazareth? No.

While those Muslim extreemists are guilty of murder plain and simple…Terry Jones is not a “publisher of peace” which the scriptures calls us to be.