Underestimating American Collapse

  • Thread starter Thread starter ATraveller
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

ATraveller

Guest
A reader sends in this short, provocative essay by Umair Haque, who believes we are underestimating the sickness infecting American life.
Click to expand...
Essay excerpt: America has had 11 school shootings in the last 23 days. That’s one every other day, more or less. That statistic is alarming enough — but it is just a number. Perspective asks us for comparison. […] America has had 11 school shootings in the last 23 days, which is more than anywhere else in the world, even Afghanistan or Iraq.
Click to expand...
Excerpt: Why are American kids killing each other? Why doesn’t their society care enough to intervene? Well, probably because those kids have given up on life — and their elders have given up on them. Or maybe you’re right — and it’s not that simple. Still, what do the kids who aren’t killing each other do? Well, a lot of them are busy killing themselves.
Click to expand...
[Haque] then talks about the opioid epidemic, and how in many parts of the Third World — the so-called [****hole] countries, note well — you can buy opioids over the counter, but people don’t abuse them.
Click to expand...
[W]hen a number of Hawaiians knew that they weren’t going to die in a nuclear explosion, they rushed to the Internet to watch pornography to calm themselves.
Click to expand...
We are a sick, sick society. Yes, you can point out the fact that we are less violent than we were in the past, and that we are less racist, and that we have made progress on this or that front. And you will be correct.

But there is something deeply wrong with us. Something that is hard to pin down, but that more and more people sense is real.
Click to expand...

These issues can’t be solved by government. The Church must not be timid in such times.
 
Last edited:
Thank you for posting this ATraveller! I’m a reader of Rod Dreher’s blog and read this today and wanted to share it here but didn’t know if we’re allowed to post something like this (I guess we are!)

It’s an interesting and somewhat frightening read. The school shootings, opioid crisis, loneliness and suicide rate are unusual and scary! Some commenters on the blog pointed out that there haven’t been 11 shootings in the last 23 days but that hardly takes away from the horror of the school shootings that do occur.

I agree – there is something profoundly wrong with the modern US. Most of us don’t want to admit it.

Lord, have mercy!
 
It’s hard to go into specifics because each location is different.
Briefly, be a countercultural community, an alternative to this world.

A parallel society where God is first, worshipping Him and not the idols of money, self and sex as the world does.
Helping the poor and the sick is already being done and more could be done but one must not forget their First Love.
The way I see it, providing material needs only go so far. They yearn for more than the material.
 
Last edited:
It’s not just America but all of Christendom.
Theo520 said:
Homicides on school grounds was also getting better
Click to expand...
I think homicide numbers over time aren’t as telling as the number of persons shot. Modern trauma care has gotten so much better that shootings that used to result in a death don’t.
 
exnihilo said:
I think homicide numbers over time aren’t as telling as the number of persons shot. Modern trauma care has gotten so much better that shootings that used to result in a death don’t.
Click to expand...
Very good point, but a shooting should be caught in the first graph on serious violence, which showed a more gradual decline than homicides.
 
Last edited:
The breakdown of the family, increase of drug use, immorality on the TV, lack of religion, constant first person shooter games (some is okay but not constant), the public school system all contribute to this sickness in my opinion.
 
I have heard that the one common attribute of nearly all mass-killers is daycare attendence during childhood. I’ll have to dig up the stats later.
 
ATraveller said:
America has had 11 school shootings in the last 23 days, which is more than anywhere else in the world, even Afghanistan or Iraq.
Click to expand...
That is why America needs to bring all its troops home and let Afghanistan and Iraq solve their problems and use the money saved to solve America’s problems., It is time for America to protect its pupils and its students from being shot to death while attending school.
 
AlNg said:
40.png
ATraveller:
America has had 11 school shootings in the last 23 days, which is more than anywhere else in the world, even Afghanistan or Iraq.
Click to expand...
That is why America needs to bring all its troops home and let Afghanistan and Iraq solve their problems and use the money saved to solve America’s problems., It is time for America to protect its pupils and its students from being shot to death while attending school.
Click to expand...
Whether American troops should be in other countries is a separate question.

Reducing military spending will do nothing to protect America, because that money will be spent promoting the secular agenda in education, social services, and other areas. That secular agenda is what helps break down the social and moral fabric of society. At present the secularist politicians don’t have enough money to carry out all their schemes. Thank God.

If all the money saved by pulling out of the Middle East could be diverted to tax cuts to lower and middle class families, I would support a pullout. But you know it won’t.

Part of the secularists’ agenda is universal “services”. Every child in public school would be assigned a counselor, every family would be assigned a case manager. They are only part of the way there now.
 
Last edited:
I wouldn’t be surprised if we get mandatory pre-school sometime soon.

Saints preserve us.
 
The more appropriate question is what each of us, individually should do…because we are the Church.

I’m not saying you meant it this way, but too often we ask, “What is the Church to do”, or “What is the Church going to do about it”, when the answer does not come from the organization hierarchy of “the Church”, but from the hearts of each of us.

And, I have purposely avoided answering my own question “What should we do?”, because its not up to each of us to answer that question individually…and if we do, the answer to the question of “What should the Church do?” would either be apparent or moot.
 
Theo520 said:
Let’s pay attention, but not oversimplify a complex subject - school violence.

From the data I found, it’s been trending down for a couple decades.
Click to expand...
Things appear to be getting better as long as the tragedies have not touch us personally.

If, in one year, there are 500 violent deaths on campus, and the next there are 5, we can celebrate the statistical decline…but how much solace does that provide to the loss of any of those 5?

We can manipulate statistics to prove anything we want, like the undeniable statistical fact that 3/4 of the world’s population consists of 75% of the people…So?

Trusting statistics alone reminds me of something my father used to like to tell me about statistics when I would try to impress him with my newly gained university educations: “Figures don’t lie…liars figure”.

And before you go off on another rant about ad hominem attacks, I’m talking about the possible interpretation and presentation of statistics, not yours.
 
Entwhistler said:
I wouldn’t be surprised if we get mandatory pre-school sometime soon.

Saints preserve us.
Click to expand...
Probably not. Kindergarten isn’t even mandatory in many states. Quick reality check:
Key Takeaways

Kindergarten entrance age:
  • In half of the 50 states plus D.C., students must turn age 5 by the end of September to attend kindergarten.
  • Nineteen states requires students to turn age 5 on or before Sept. 1.
Kindergarten attendance requirement:
  • Fifteen states plus D.C. require children to attend kindergarten at age five or require kindergarten attendance prior to enrolling in first grade.
  • Thirty-five states do not require kindergarten attendance.
Compulsory school age:
  • Most states require children to attend school by age 6 (26 states) or age 7 (14 states).
  • In eight states – Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, Maryland, New Mexico, Oklahoma, South Carolina and Virginia – plus D.C., the compulsory school age is 5.
  • Pennsylvania and Washington require children to attend school at age 8.
Click to expand...
And mandatory preschool means government funding. And we all know how well that goes with education. :roll_eyes:

Here’s the link to my source: 50-State Comparison: State K-3 Policies - Education Commission of the States
 
I certainly hope your right. Maybe my fear comes from what I from politicians proposing universal pre-school. And that would be a slippery slope to mandatory.

But I’m also an opponent of mandatory school at 5. And seeing my state is on that list irritates me.

Oh, well. (Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Theo520 said:
Let’s pay attention, but not oversimplify a complex subject - school violence.

From the data I found, it’s been trending down for a couple decades.
https://curry.virginia.edu/faculty-...youth-violence-project/violence-schools-and-4

From the above line:

Serious violent crime is has trended down in US schools

Homicides on school grounds was also getting better
Click to expand...
You know what they say about statistics proving whatever you want…

First of all, these graphs only cover violence and deaths through 2007 and 2010, respectively.

Second, these stats only cover grades K-12, not college. If we’re looking at the horrific trend of young people killing young people, I personally think colleges and universities should be included.

In 2007, a 23-year-old man killed 32 people and injured 23 at Virginia Tech University. Those 32 deaths are not included in the graph!

Although I’m not a huge Wikipedia fan, here’s a pretty comprehensive list of school gun violence – this does not include other forms of violence (beatings, stabbings, etc.) except when a gun was also involved. The list goes all the way back to the 1700s!


Also not included in this data you posted are the 20 first graders who were killed at Sandy Hook Elementary, and the six adults who died trying to protect the students. This happened in 2012. Six and seven year olds were the target – mere babies.

Just this week, students at a Colorado high school reported suspicious comments and behavior on the part of a classmate. When police searched the young man’s home, they found an arsenal of weapons he planned to use on students and staff at the school.

Students are now aware that their schools are targets for violence, so they are more likely to report their concerns. I am not going to take the time to see if anyone has collected data on the number of thwarted plans, but it’s definitely something seen in the news more these days.

And while we’re talking about young people killing young people, there are acts of violence that take place away from schools. A 24-year-old gunman killed 12 people at a Colorado movie theater… one more example of a young person gone terribly wrong.

My point is that this picture of young people whose minds and hearts are deeply damaged is not getting better, regardless of what those graphs show.

I don’t know that America will “collapse” – whatever that means. But I do know that our society is producing some children who are deeply damaged and who have no hope for their futures. I see a handful of students who exhibit those traits every single school year… it’s enough to break your heart.
 
The number of children killed by abortion far, far exceeds all other forms of violence. There is a larger pattern here. Mass shootings only became common in the late 1960s, as abortion approached widespread acceptance. In prior decades there was far less gun control, and mass, anonymous shootings non existent.

The Church can’t merely point to one symptom - abortion or mass shootings. The Church needs to point out the larger issue, the collapse of the Natural Law, that persons have dignity, have inherent rights. The Church needs to oppose the dominant philosophy of Relativism, in which government or the media decide what is right, and who has rights. The Church needs to affirm that yes, some things are “shades of grey”, but other things are absolutes, True/False or Right/Wrong.

A society where all dogmas are forgotten will be even more dangerous than the America we now have, where dogmas are fading.
 
Last edited:
The original article isn’t about school shootings. It is about the social and moral decline of US culture. The article opens with school shootings but goes on to discuss other symptoms and what they might mean.

By the way, the article cited in the OP is only a summary of another article:
https://eand.co/why-were-underestimating-american-collapse-be04d9e55235
which is well worth reading. In addition to signs and symptoms of the disorder, it also attempts to look at the root of the problem.

What should we do about it? The author does not get into specific solutions. Rather, he believes (as I do) that things have gone so far off the rails that we might have to look for a novel approach to correcting it:
The uniqueness of these social pathologies tell us that American collapse is not like a reversion to any mean, or the downswing of a trend. It is something outside the norm. Something beyond the data. Past the statistics. It is like the meteor that hit the dinosaurs: an outlier beyond outliers, an event at the extreme of the extremes. That is why our narratives, frames, and theories cannot really capture it — much less explain it. We need a whole new language — and a new way of seeing — to even begin to make sense of it.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
commenter said:
Reducing military spending will do nothing to protect America, because that money will be spent promoting the secular agenda in education, social services, and other areas. That secular agenda is what helps break down the social and moral fabric of society. At present the secularist politicians don’t have enough money to carry out all their schemes. Thank God.
Click to expand...
I don’t disagree with how the money would be spent if it weren’t spent on the military. However, I think the military is the main instrument of the secular agenda. Look what has happened Christianity in countries the US military has attacked.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top