Understanding Islamic Views

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Peace and blessings,
I have reflected and prayed some about some of the posts made in response to what i have said.

As one example
Best i can recollect i have never said i don’t believe in the crucification but now stand accused of saying it.

I am not here to get you to agree with my views, I am not your teacher, guide, authority and so on. Most of you here in your stated religion profess you have one.
You dont have any need of me, some where in your books it should say that we sharpen each other or encourage each other to seek the one truth.

In discussion i am more than happy to allow the advocate to be part of my thinking process.

IMO thats what he was made for, yes he became full of pride and wants to work against me. He was made to be my advocate, that i maybe made straight. Thanks be to G-d for Yeshua (pbwh) the advocate must now submit to me and serve me or be gone from me.

So if i say I cant prove the crucification, why assume i don’t believe in it. You doing this does no harm to me or G-d, but i love you and dont want you to do it to yourself.

If i have said actually said some thing quote it for me so, i can explain where i have not typed well or be corrected. I have no interest in you making statements of what i believe just because it suits you. It is why i try to stay away from CAF, if my posting encourages you to lie i am not helping you be sharp but helping you become burdened.

I only see this because i am no better and have to make some apologies here for my short comings, may G-d forgive us for those we miss, He is most forgiving.

I hope this helps you, and helps you to help me.

May G-d bless and guide us all as we walk together seeking to submit unto Him.
What matters more is the way we are to people”. By being that way, you can also be saved brother, whether or not you believe that Yeshua was crucified historically. I believe in Mat 25:31-46 if you care to read that.
 
That is correct, brother. Prophets can make mistakes/sins. It is also true that God is the most forgiving and merciful, so prophets should already be in heaven now. The question is, why don’t we believe that if God is forgiving and merciful, then prophets should be in heaven.

It is understandable for me if Muhammad asked to be prayed. But, if the muslims believe that Muhammad is the Prophet of God, then they should firmly believe that Muhammad is in heaven now.
Brother you make a valid point that would be only truly answerable by some devout Mulsims.

In my walk i have heard various Islamic versions of what happens when the body dies and it is possible some are waiting for the last day. Maybe it is supported by the prayers of others people is important. i know i am blessed to pray for others maybe its for others benefit. As you can tell by me beginning to think out loud, i really cant answer your question and would have maybe done better not to try.

IMO it is good for Christians to pray G-ds mercy be upon him, even if one has a negative view of him Christians are called to love their enemies. My personal belief at this time is even the most dark seeming person on the earth has in them some spark of the goodness Christians see from Yeshua (pbwh). Inspired by the narrations of his last words on the cross it is best i pray forgiveness for all.

Pray well Brother and stay well, blessings to you and yours
 
I believe in Mat 25:31-46 if you care to read that.
For sure i care to, we discuss it in our prayer group at our Vinnies meetings, Our eight day mass and i think in in both years of our week day masses.

I care very much about good teaching it grows my heart for the Law.

Bless you
 
Bless you Brother in reflection i should have been clear to you.

As for the bold I feel insulted or pre-judged by you,
being mindful Islam does not teach as you have explained later in your post,
you dont have the story Moses (pbuh) struck Yeshua (pbwh) from the Quran,
as you now see i did not have the story Moses (pbuh) struck Yeshua (pbwh) the Quran,
the Quran does not say Moses (pbuh) struck Yeshua (pbwh) as explained Islam does not see the rock as explained by you later does not have it
does this mean you assume when i speak i lie?
Part of the confusion is the use of Yeshua, I didn’t know whether you meant Joshua (who lead the Isrealites into the Promise Land) or Jesus Christ. Another thing that added to the confussion is whether or not you took something that was allegorical and made it literal. And I didn’t not know if you really thought that Jesus live at the time of Moses and that Moses struck the person of Jesus Christ, or if you believed that Jesus Christ used to be a rock. But even though those are the things that sprung to mind, I want to give you the shadow of the doubt that was not what you intended to say.

Moses struck the rock, it is mentioned (or refered to) in the Bible at least 3x - Exodus, Numbers and the Psalms. The the story has an allergorical meaning behind it, but when you mix the interpretation and the actual story as told in the Bible, it only adds to the confussion. It is best not to say that Moses struck Joshua, or Jesus.
What else can i conclude? unless its a typo it is by your word it is only because i said it you thought it was a lie in Islam, besides me ant more important it is unkind to the people of the Islamic religion
I’m quite lost, I do not know what conclusion you came to.
 
Part of the confusion is the use of Yeshua, I didn’t know whether you meant Joshua (who lead the Isrealites into the Promise Land) or Jesus Christ. Another thing that added to the confussion is whether or not you took something that was allegorical and made it literal. And I didn’t not know if you really thought that Jesus live at the time of Moses and that Moses struck the person of Jesus Christ, or if you believed that Jesus Christ used to be a rock. But even though those are the things that sprung to mind, I want to give you the shadow of the doubt that was not what you intended to say.
Ok i appreciate your help, i dont consider Joshua (pbuh) to have been the giver of peace as Jesus (pbwh) is and was. As for what you did not know, why did you not read it with what you do know?
Moses struck the rock, it is mentioned (or refered to) in the Bible at least 3x - Exodus, Numbers and the Psalms.
ok then i will just hold to on the last time Moses (pbuh) was not instructed to but took it upon himself and this was the error that was in the way of him entering the promised land until i learn other wise.
The the story has an allergorical meaning behind it, but when you mix the interpretation and the actual story as told in the Bible, it only adds to the confussion. It is best not to say that Moses struck Joshua, or Jesus.
I value what you say here and will try to do better especially the last line.

Allegorical or literal would make no difference to the point i was making, prophets (pbut) do sin but they are still prophets.
I’m quite lost, I do not know what conclusion you came to.
Maybe it is not about the conclusion i came to, i was questioning the one you came to. i saw no reason in my post for you to assume it was a Quranic verse i was referring to but for you decided things about me with no reasonable foundation, thats only my take on it not judgment over you.

Bless ya Bro sorry i am hard to read, i appreciate and praise G-d for your patience and love in sharing with me.
 
with a degree in “economics and management”? So this wouldn’t make him an expert an anything to do with religion.
Since you are not familiar with our education system, here in Saudi Arabia there are Islamic courses which are oblige in any University degree, also at each year of the elementary and secondary there are at least 5 books being taught (Quran, Tafseer, Tawhead, Tajwead, Feqh), and most importantly don’t forget the brainwashing of the lectures in the mosques…
What difference does it make in how much one donates to a faith if you donate all? Also how does this make anything right? What does monetary gain have to do with anything?
What you call a 18 old girl who left her earthy life to be a nun for the rest of her life…
The same concept applies above…
 
OK so we have the Islamic Faith rooted in the belief of Mohammad and his passages inspired by a higher power. I’m getting this. Created from Mohammads age of 40-63. The Quran was written in this time between the years 570-633AD. So more specifically its written during the years 610-633AD. He begin at age 40 to compose the verse’s. Mohammad spent the last ten years of his life in a state of War in Mecca. So 50% of the the time spent writting the verse’s of the Quran, were also spent during War?

You have to realize that taking this 50% period of time and claiming all thats said by Mohammad to be Gods word is a serious stretch.

I get how this is believed, taught, and spread to others.

I’m not getting the refusal to accept the rest of HIstory before Mohammad and the refusal to accept history as factual, and thus interpret it as Mohammad believed. Exodus, Temple of Babel, all the recored events of 4000 years ago all coicide with archaelogy. Hows it concluded there all wrong? .

I can’t seem to reach the point where everything this man said is truth, thats simply impossible. Its about equivilant to believeing bin Laden. If he came out of the moun,tain cave in Afghanistan and proclaimed he spoke to the Arch-Angel Gabrail would you believe that?

Lets say for arguments sake this is true, how could is possibly be true that during violence, rape, torture, and intense War [remember Mohammad defeated an army 4-5times larger than his] God is working through this man? In Medina preceeding the war, Muslims and those of Ansar, felt so troubled by the conflict of Mohammads doctrine, all slept with their weapons nightly No different than today with bin Laden.

Would it safe to say that in these very moments that God isn’t within Mohammad? Thus the very passages recorded immediatly after to his army, may indeed only be the thoughts of a simple man in the state of violent war? Which evil itself could very well work through.

You do realize this is the exact reason we here in this country don’t let leaders like Patton and MacCarther do anything but their specific calling. Look at McCrystal, had we let him control as he pleased in Afghanistan we would have had Mass extermination.

How do live daily in intense War, and live and taste blood. And at the end of the day return to a logical, rational, caring, feeling. compasionate humanitarian? Is this even possible? History doesn’t seem to confirm this to any degree. Look at bi-Laden and his very state of mind as this conflict continues. Or look at McCrystal who was pulled out the middle east because of his state of mind. You can’t propagate violence and talk God and Peace and Love? Hows this possible?

I’m not sure this isn’t the escalation of pure Evil. Its impossible to comprehend this train of thinking. And while I surely can’t begin to tell what anyone is truly thinking, We can only conclude by actions and words the true intention. Which doesn’t seem to arrive at the point of World Peace? There’s not one leader in History, ever, who promoted War with the concept of World Peace and Freedom and Free Will. These concepts don’t mesh together, and rightfully so how could they?

There have been leaders like Helena who took over empires and changed the very thinking and thus made it law. Yet they were also still far from the exact thinking they preached. What they said and what they did were two very different actions and thoughts.

So from here you have to look at government and its purpose and goal. Is it to spead a peacefull. loving society? Actions and Speech don’t indicate this, let alone to conclude what one might really be thinking, that indeed might be very scary.

I conclude that even if Islamic Religion was world wide and the only religion in the world. It would destroy itself and the very process of Freedom and Free-Will would have to be visited again. We are witnessing and living in a period where History is attemptimg to repeat itself. And those who can’t remember the past are condemed to repeat it.

And whats more alarming than all this is the very idea of a new world order. Which sits aside and allows all religion to destroy itself. Then they wouldn’t have to worry about world population and food, both of which are major issues today. And oppression and repression would be simple from that point. Abortion, birth control, death of Souls all could be universally installed to control populations and food. The existing rpoblems would just be left without. There will be no aid, no food, no help coming. Is this the final outcome religions look to? Islam standing alone in its belief cannot survive. Our world population and food supply alone dictate differently. None of this has been clearly thought out. Who shall you kill when all bow down to Allah and there are no non believers? Who will feed everyone then? God will provide? certainly this isn’t the thinking? We already have reached a population which cannot be properly cared for. The point of no return is within the decade we are now living in.

The more I look at our society the more I come to believe that an Anti Christ leads Islam and the real Evil is the New World Order and the final destruction of all religion.

If all religion doesn’t get there act together and work togther to fight this beast. All will suffer the consequence.

Of course God won’t allow this. But humanity and the World as we see it today will be so greatly affected, it will take 1000s of years to regenerate. Your familys, familys, family will feel this period as if they lived it. At the rate hate escalates nuclear war is unavoidable.

You have CASTRO coming on TV and telling the world not to revert to Nuclear war, it will be the destruction of the world. He hasn’t appeared in years? You think theres not grave concern for mankind? And he’s a dictator, nut, and he clearly see’s THE END.🤷
 
But Muslims do not and never claimed that Muhammed is already in heaven !!!
May I ask how muslims follow a prophet, that has founded a new religion different from others, and speak to them about Heaven when him self in the first place can’t know if he could see it ever?

What is the prise for a muslim that have lived a peaceful life?
Based on the Quran can he enter heaven? what about hell? isn’t he gonna go to hell after he’s dead? what about “Torment of the grave” thing? …

How do people follow someone who can’t promise them of eternal life, where as Christ has said in many places and many times that He is the way for eternity…
“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6)
"I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die… " (John 11:25-26)

and many more…
 
I do not see how this proves that he is not in heaven.
Mohammad was never sure of himself entering heaven, Still he promised his followers of a Heaven Full of women (each man has 72 ‘Hur al-Ayn’/women to make love with them) and wine, with rivers and fountains full of honey and wine and everything you could possibly think of if you were a worrier who fights in the deserts under the hot sun with no certain reason for life…
So mohammad made Heaven " a paradise" for any average Arabic man at that time (and still) where you have everything you don’t have in real life and where all he need to do is “to Fight For Allah/ Fight for Islam”
  • The point is, Mohammad was never sure of him entering heaven eventhough he IS A PROPHET!!! It’s like you’re telling me Moses was never sure to enter heaven!
  • Mohammad asked his followers to pray for him for Allah so that he let him enter heaven and seek forgiveness and mercy!!
  • Why Mohammad need mercy and forgiveness if the Quran say about him that he has NO SINS??? could he possibly have sins ?
  • How Mohammad invite people to a god who is “cheater/deceiver”?
And they cheated/deceived and God cheated/deceived, and God (is) the best (of) the cheaters/deceivers. [Surah Âl 'Imran (3:54)]

وَمَكَرُواْ وَمَكَرَ اللّهُ وَاللّهُ خَيْرُ الْمَاكِرِينَ
آل عمران 54
so don’t ask why Mohammad doubted of entering heaven if his god wasn’t honest enough…
 
The “Gospel” writers often mention that Jesus going about and preaching the Gospel (the Injeel):
  1. “And Jesus went . . . preaching the gospel . . . and healing every disease among the people.” (Matthew 9:35)
  2. “… but whosoever shall lose his fife for my sake and the gospel’s, the same shall save it.” (Mark 8:35)
  3. “… preached the gospel. . .” (Luke 20:1)
which Gospel these gospeles are mentioned ? is it paul writings ?

The “gospel” is a frequently-used word, but what Gospel did Jesus preach? Of the 27 books of the New Testament, only a small fraction can be accepted as the words of Jesus. The Christians boast about the Gospels according to St. Matthew, according to St. Mark, according to St. Luke and according to St. John, but there is not a single Gospel “according” to (St.) Jesus himself! We sincerely believe that everything Christ (May the peace and blessings of God be upon him) preached was from God. That was the Injeel, the good news and the guidance of God for the Children of Israel.

Most Greek-speaking authors heard these traditions (the original gospel) in the Aramaic vernacular and committed them to writing in Greek. None of these writings is dated prior to the year 70 AD; there is not a single instance in these works where the author has cited an authority for an event or maxim attributed to Jesus in order that we might construct a chain of transmission. Furthermore, even their works have not survived. Thousands of Greek manuscripts of the New Testament were collected, but none of them is older than the 4th century AD; rather the origin of most of them does not go beyond the period intervening between the 11th and the 14th centuries. Some scattered fragments on papyrus found in Egypt claim no greater antiquity than the third century. Who translated the Bible from Greek into Latin and when did he do it, we cannot say
Hi Elwill,

I am surprised that you have studied the Holy Bible, but did not go a step forward to check what Gospel means. For your information it means GOOD NEWS. For all believers Jesus did bring Good news and He preached good news. 🙂
 
OK so we have the Islamic Faith rooted in the belief of Mohammad and his passages inspired by a higher power. I’m getting this. Created from Mohammads age of 40-63. The Quran was written in this time between the years 570-633AD. So more specifically its written during the years 610-633AD. He begin at age 40 to compose the verse’s. Mohammad spent the last ten years of his life in a state of War in Mecca. So 50% of the the time spent writting the verse’s of the Quran, were also spent during War?

You have to realize that taking this 50% period of time and claiming all thats said by Mohammad to be Gods word is a serious stretch.

I get how this is believed, taught, and spread to others.

I’m not getting the refusal to accept the rest of HIstory before Mohammad and the refusal to accept history as factual, and thus interpret it as Mohammad believed. Exodus, Temple of Babel, all the recored events of 4000 years ago all coicide with archaelogy. Hows it concluded there all wrong? .

I can’t seem to reach the point where everything this man said is truth, thats simply impossible. Its about equivilant to believeing bin Laden. If he came out of the moun,tain cave in Afghanistan and proclaimed he spoke to the Arch-Angel Gabrail would you believe that?

Lets say for arguments sake this is true, how could is possibly be true that during violence, rape, torture, and intense War [remember Mohammad defeated an army 4-5times larger than his] God is working through this man? In Medina preceeding the war, Muslims and those of Ansar, felt so troubled by the conflict of Mohammads doctrine, all slept with their weapons nightly No different than today with bin Laden.

Would it safe to say that in these very moments that God isn’t within Mohammad? Thus the very passages recorded immediatly after to his army, may indeed only be the thoughts of a simple man in the state of violent war? Which evil itself could very well work through.

You do realize this is the exact reason we here in this country don’t let leaders like Patton and MacCarther do anything but their specific calling. Look at McCrystal, had we let him control as he pleased in Afghanistan we would have had Mass extermination.

How do live daily in intense War, and live and taste blood. And at the end of the day return to a logical, rational, caring, feeling. compasionate humanitarian? Is this even possible? History doesn’t seem to confirm this to any degree. Look at bi-Laden and his very state of mind as this conflict continues. Or look at McCrystal who was pulled out the middle east because of his state of mind. You can’t propagate violence and talk God and Peace and Love? Hows this possible?

I’m not sure this isn’t the escalation of pure Evil. Its impossible to comprehend this train of thinking. And while I surely can’t begin to tell what anyone is truly thinking, We can only conclude by actions and words the true intention. Which doesn’t seem to arrive at the point of World Peace? There’s not one leader in History, ever, who promoted War with the concept of World Peace and Freedom and Free Will. These concepts don’t mesh together, and rightfully so how could they?

There have been leaders like Helena who took over empires and changed the very thinking and thus made it law. Yet they were also still far from the exact thinking they preached. What they said and what they did were two very different actions and thoughts.

So from here you have to look at government and its purpose and goal. Is it to spead a peacefull. loving society? Actions and Speech don’t indicate this, let alone to conclude what one might really be thinking, that indeed might be very scary.

I conclude that even if Islamic Religion was world wide and the only religion in the world. It would destroy itself and the very process of Freedom and Free-Will would have to be visited again. We are witnessing and living in a period where History is attemptimg to repeat itself. And those who can’t remember the past are condemed to repeat it.

And whats more alarming than all this is the very idea of a new world order. Which sits aside and allows all religion to destroy itself. Then they wouldn’t have to worry about world population and food, both of which are major issues today. And oppression and repression would be simple from that point. Abortion, birth control, death of Souls all could be universally installed to control populations and food. The existing rpoblems would just be left without. There will be no aid, no food, no help coming. Is this the final outcome religions look to? Islam standing alone in its belief cannot survive. Our world population and food supply alone dictate differently. None of this has been clearly thought out. Who shall you kill when all bow down to Allah and there are no non believers? Who will feed everyone then? God will provide? certainly this isn’t the thinking? We already have reached a population which cannot be properly cared for. The point of no return is within the decade we are now living in.

The more I look at our society the more I come to believe that an Anti Christ leads Islam and the real Evil is the New World Order and the final destruction of all religion.

If all religion doesn’t get there act together and work togther to fight this beast. All will suffer the consequence.

Of course God won’t allow this. But humanity and the World as we see it today will be so greatly affected, it will take 1000s of years to regenerate. Your familys, familys, family will feel this period as if they lived it. At the rate hate escalates nuclear war is unavoidable.

You have CASTRO coming on TV and telling the world not to revert to Nuclear war, it will be the destruction of the world. He hasn’t appeared in years? You think theres not grave concern for mankind? And he’s a dictator, nut, and he clearly see’s THE END.🤷
👍
 
Originally Posted by jakasaki
This document is somewhat confussing to me.
I’ve read it over & over and it does not seem to be the words of mohamad.

This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.
Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.
No compulsion is to be on them.
Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.​

etc
Do the muslim members on here believe this are mohamads words…???
Koran 5.51

**O YOU who have attained to faith!

Do not take the Jews and the Christians for your allies: they are but allies of one another and whoever of you allies himself with them becomes, verily, one of them; behold, God does not guide such evildoers.**

Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo la tattakhithoo alyahooda waalnnasara awliyaa baAAduhum awliyao baAAdin waman yatawallahum minkum fa-innahu minhum inna Allaha la yahdee alqawma alththalimeena

I also noticed Elwill that you removed the other sentence which stated that when a muslim man is married to a Christian woman, SHE MUST be allowed to visit her & pray in HER CHURCH. :confused:

Plus you removed the statement which said that the Christian Churches should not be destroyed…:confused:
 
Mohammad was never sure of himself entering heaven, Still he promised his followers of a Heaven Full of women (each man has 72 ‘Hur al-Ayn’/women to make love with them) and wine, with rivers and fountains full of honey and wine and everything you could possibly think of if you were a worrier who fights in the deserts under the hot sun with no certain reason for life…
So mohammad made Heaven " a paradise" for any average Arabic man at that time (and still) where you have everything you don’t have in real life and where all he need to do is “to Fight For Allah/ Fight for Islam”
  • The point is, Mohammad was never sure of him entering heaven eventhough he IS A PROPHET!!! It’s like you’re telling me Moses was never sure to enter heaven!
  • Mohammad asked his followers to pray for him for Allah so that he let him enter heaven and seek forgiveness and mercy!!
  • Why Mohammad need mercy and forgiveness if the Quran say about him that he has NO SINS??? could he possibly have sins ?
  • How Mohammad invite people to a god who is “cheater/deceiver”?
And they cheated/deceived and God cheated/deceived, and God (is) the best (of) the cheaters/deceivers. [Surah Âl 'Imran (3:54)]

وَمَكَرُواْ وَمَكَرَ اللّهُ وَاللّهُ خَيْرُ الْمَاكِرِينَ
آل عمران 54
so don’t ask why Mohammad doubted of entering heaven if his god wasn’t honest enough…
*My point is that just because he did not, through his actions and words, understand God as fully revealed in Jesus Christ, does not pove that he is not in heaven or that he is not in Hell. To me this just shows me how confussed and unsure he himself was about what he taught.
*
 
Mohammad was never sure of himself entering heaven, Still he promised his followers of a Heaven Full of women (each man has 72 ‘Hur al-Ayn’/women to make love with them) and wine, with rivers and fountains full of honey and wine and everything you could possibly think of if you were a worrier who fights in the deserts under the hot sun with no certain reason for life…
So mohammad made Heaven " a paradise" for any average Arabic man at that time (and still) where you have everything you don’t have in real life and where all he need to do is “to Fight For Allah/ Fight for Islam”
  • The point is, Mohammad was never sure of him entering heaven eventhough he IS A PROPHET!!! It’s like you’re telling me Moses was never sure to enter heaven!
  • Mohammad asked his followers to pray for him for Allah so that he let him enter heaven and seek forgiveness and mercy!!
  • Why Mohammad need mercy and forgiveness if the Quran say about him that he has NO SINS??? could he possibly have sins ?
  • How Mohammad invite people to a god who is “cheater/deceiver”?
And they cheated/deceived and God cheated/deceived, and God (is) the best (of) the cheaters/deceivers. [Surah Âl 'Imran (3:54)]

وَمَكَرُواْ وَمَكَرَ اللّهُ وَاللّهُ خَيْرُ الْمَاكِرِينَ
آل عمران 54
so don’t ask why Mohammad doubted of entering heaven if his god wasn’t honest enough…
why you say that mohammed (pbuh) wasn’t sure to enter heavin ?
 
*My point is that just because he did not, through his actions and words, understand God as fully revealed in Jesus Christ, does not pove that he is not in heaven or that he is not in Hell. To me this just shows me how confussed and unsure he himself was about what he taught.
*
If Mohammad was a prophet of God, then he would have known who Jesus is.
 
*My point is that just because he did not, through his actions and words, understand God as fully revealed in Jesus Christ, does not pove that he is not in heaven or that he is not in Hell. To me this just shows me how confussed and unsure he himself was about what he taught.
*
thank you for your comment ,

but i think that prophet mohammed (pbuh) want to teach us that however hard and sincerely may man be trying to serve and worship his Lord and fighting and struggling in the cause of His Religion, he should never be involved in the misunderstanding that he has done and accomplished whatever he was required to do. Rather, on the contrary, he should have the feeling that he has not been able to do full justice to what was expected of him by his Lord and Master. Therefore, he should confess his errors constantly and pray to Allah saying 'Lord, forgive me for whatever fault and error I may have committed in Your service."

Holy Prophet (PBUH) used to ask Allah for forgiveness as a token of his modesty and also to teach his companions and followers to do the same.

Narrated Abu Huraira: I heard Allah’s Messenger saying." By Allah! I ask for forgiveness from Allah and turn to Him in repentance more than seventy times a day." (Sahih Bukhari, Hadith 5832)

Ibn Umar narrated: I heard Allah’s Messenger saying, “O people ask Allah for forgiveness verily I ask Him for forgiveness hundred times a day.” (Musnad Ahmad Hadith 17173)
 
Hi Elwill,

I am surprised that you have studied the Holy Bible, but did not go a step forward to check what Gospel means. For your information it means GOOD NEWS. For all believers Jesus did bring Good news and He preached good news. 🙂
i can’t say about myself that i studied the holy bible , i didn’t
but i know that Gospel means good news , and i believe he preached good news
 
I recall Christ dying on the cross…and He had a good thief on one side of Him, and the other the bad thief.

The bad thief blasphemed Our Lord challenging His divinity…but the Good Thief acknowleded the Lord - paying the price for our sins – and Jesus assured the Good thief that he would be with Him in heaven today.

The other issue that I have found incommunicable with Muslims reflects upon the line of Gary here. They don’t understand the reasoning forthcoming.

Jesus could have walked into Israel and proclaimed He was the Messiah and begin performing awesome miracles, creating money, eliminating poverty, changing peoples’ bodies into beautiful ones, giving people every single thing they needed, turning deserts into Gardens of Eden…creating new plants and flowers…He would make every man, woman, and child just beautiful, and everybody would just Jesus, and the whole world would find out. Then Jesus would destroy the Roman Empire by HIs miracles and making the Romans all beautiful and everyone happy, and destroy all their enemies by giving the enemies everything they wanted in this world.

But you know what? People never can be completely filled by things and material beauty and healthy bodies…because Greed and Lust and Power can never be satisified…like the tongue that never needs to be replaced, the tongue, greed, and lust and power crave more and more.

This craving is the flesh…and in Christian doctrine, it is the flesh and what is in our hearts that leads us to sin…greed to control the entire world always entails murder.

Christ instead came into the world and was born in poverty, not even a home but in an animal stable. And He was placed in an animal feeder symbolic to become Food in the Eucharist for us. And He gave power to the apostles when He returned on the evening of His Resurrection to help deliver mankind from their sins.

The crux is that Jesus was Jewish, and that it was to the Jewish people that the Messiah would come, and Isaiah prophesized that the Messiah would be rejected by His own people, a man of sorrows who did not stand out…

Jesus renounced pride, power, greed, lust…He was tempted in every way like man, but in His divinity did not sin. And Jesus had not one apostle to witness Him but 12. Twelve is the number of all the Jewish tribes…and being Christianized, it then becomes the symbol of all mankind.

Jesus had 12 apostles…Know the ‘telephone grapevine game’…Play it in the MIdeast??? People sit in a line of chairs. One person begins a little story. Then it is repeated down the line. Finally the last person stands up to tell the story and it is NOT the same.

Christ had 12 witnesses to His life, death and Resurrection. When Judas defected, another was chosen by throwing lots…symbolism in this as well…And it took the Church with these 12 apostles and their successors and many other witnesses to put the Bible together…and this is to draw on the universal faith that would speak to all mankind.

Muhammed had no witnesses. How do we or you know him in the truth? He is outside the Jewish Christian world, of a different culture. Now he has had contact with Jews and Christians, but he is coming out now with a very different Jesus but using figures and Him to create a new story.

And finally, you do not see Jews or Christians having the need to take over the Hajj, Medina and Mecca…because we already know what we have?

Do I make any sense here???

And as each day begins, that alone should tell a devout believer in God who knows his own sinfulness…that a new day brings hope to try again…how many tribes have murdered their own children out of misunderstanding and impatience…when later on that child who was killed because of honor could have done great things for them??

Same with Chrsitianity and the need to have the Crusades…to save our faith or else Christianity would have been exterminated a long time ago by Islam. Where would the world be if Islam had overtaken Europe in the 1500’s???
 
Koran 5.51

**O YOU who have attained to faith!

Do not take the Jews and the Christians for your allies: they are but allies of one another and whoever of you allies himself with them becomes, verily, one of them; behold, God does not guide such evildoers.**

Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo la tattakhithoo alyahooda waalnnasara awliyaa baAAduhum awliyao baAAdin waman yatawallahum minkum fa-innahu minhum inna Allaha la yahdee alqawma alththalimeena

**I also noticed Elwill that you removed the other sentence which stated that when a muslim man is married to a Christian woman, SHE MUST be allowed to visit her & pray in HER CHURCH. :confused:

Plus you removed the statement which said that the Christian Churches should not be destroyed…:confused**:
i removed them because the post was very long in the beginning , and i needed to remove some statments , so that i can post it 🙂

the command of God to not take jews or christians as allies dosn’t contradict his command to deal with them kindly and in justice and dosn’t contradict his permission for muslims to marrying from them and dosn’t contradict the freedom of relegion issue
 
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