Unhappy Consequences of Large Families

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Dear sing,

A couple of girlfriends told me about painful times growing up in 11 and 12 child families, due to being surrogate mothers and feeling neglected.

In both cases, the natural spacing of ecological breastfeeding was not practiced and a child came almost every two years or less.

In my own life, I had twins for my first and I had very little help and I was bottlefeeding them and was very miserable from lack of sleep.
But I found out about ecological breastfeeding and it totally changed my outlook after having tried it. I very eagerly looked forward to caring for each subsequent baby (7 altogether). I never made one of the older chidren look after the younger. Instead we paid them to babysit. So they were happy to earn a little money. Otherwise my husband or I looked after the middle ones. My dh or I always cared for the baby. I wasn’t about to let my child be neglected in their most needy time-the first three years! I changed the diapers, not my older children. Now if they had expressed an interest, I would have let them a few times, but I always was so happy to make my child be clean and sweet again.
It is my and my husband’s responsibility to take care of the baby especially and not of my other children. Only if we paid them (and only for short times) would they officially have responsibilty for their younger sibling. My children do not have the vocation to parent their siblings, I do.
Just know that it doesn’t have to be the way you had it in your family.
My children are so well-adjusted and secure and we are always so happy to have another baby that the other brothers are very loving to their new sibling (except for the one closest in age, but the jealousy was manifested in very manageable ways). One son in particular was so loving to his brothers that I would have to forbid him from taking the baby away from me!

My 8 and 5 year old are so nice to each other and share so much. My twins were the perfect team. Everything was shared between them and they loved to show their younger siblings how to do everything. I did not make them do it.

Just use your common sense. I always wanted to clean up and feed my children myself because I put myself in their helpless shoes and did whatever was needed to make them happy, fed and loved. Would I want to have this food smeared all over myself and my chair for example? No. Would I want to abandon my child to someone who couldn’t feed them like I can? No.
 
I also often say a wonderful prayer that I have come across, that the Holy Spirit will fill the gap (or the chasm!) between the love my children need each day and the love they receive. I am a fallen creature after all - thank God for my church that gives me ways to help my children in spite of my failings!
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My dad’s habit of saying “We’re glad you came to our house” to each of us kids, especially on our birthdays, and his habit of saying “Love you, like you, see you in the morning” when we went to bed.
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How beautiful!

I am also one of ten children and but I am not the oldest but one on the younger ones. Just your posting has made me appreciate how much the older ones went though and what good role models they were. I recently met a twenty three year old who is fourth of seventeen children and she told me how much work they do just in washing clothes.

My parents got some recognition from the church but to me that was OK. Most mothers and fathers of large families struggle as they often have to sacrafice their needs not their wants. I am a little taken back by the fact that your parents did sports for the boys.

I understand somewhat what you are going through because it took me awhile during my late teens and early twenties to regroup and this too caused me some grief. Some of my siblings have left the church. I didn’t know how to interact because I was socially inept but I also had other talents that I had learned such as listening to people and doing thoughtful things. I just didn’t see my talents as important.

Because I was the younger, I was the one that could help out with babysitting my siblings’ children which made me pretty close to them. Helping take care of my parents as they aged was a role I gladly accepted.

I’ve often wonder if there is any way others can help large families out financially without making it seem like help - say at Christmas so they do have a good Christmas.
 
Family size can worsen the effects of a dysfunctional family
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I don’t believe this for a minute. In a dysfunctional family you may have different problems if your family is larger than the set of problems you’d have if they were smaller. But I don’t think they’d be worse. If anything, my guess is the problems with small dysfunctional families is worse.

Instead of feeling neglected because Mom and Dad’s attention is going to a sibling, you get to feel neglected because Mom and Dad’s attention is going to a career, or a hobby, or a boat. As painful as it is to feel “less than” another brother or sister, it is much more crushing to feel “less than” an inanimate object, or even an abstract object.

Hence, we see children of small dysfunctional families doing things like blasting their fellow students.
A lot of people are telling you not to blame your family or parents for your problems. They are right, because you and your parents should blame your grandparents, but of course they were the way they were because of the way their parents were, and so on back generations.
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Shirley is very wise with this advice. If you ever get the opportunity to pick the brains of your parents, or uncles and aunts at a family reunion do it. Usually later in the party or the next day or something when they don’t feel obligated to maintain a jolly atmosphere you might be able to tease out some of the dysfunctional stories of their childhoods. Ask 'em if Grandma and Grandpa ever fought.

Doing this did wonders for changing my own perspective. I learned that dysfunctionality is a disease that infects the generations and takes numerous generations to cure. I learned that Mom and Dad didn’t mess us up - they saved us from a hell that they endured! Generation by generation things were improving. Infidelity and alcoholism in one generation, just alcoholism in the next, finally eliminating alcoholism to general marital spats and so on…
 
Leeta said:
In both cases, the natural spacing of ecological breastfeeding was not practiced and a child came almost every two years or less.
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Practicing ecological breastfeeding to the letter will usually result in children spaced 18-36 months. A 3 year space using only EB is not the norm 😉
 
I’m the oldest of three and there are 7.5 years between each of us (long and interesting story). Almost all of my childhood friends come from similar or smaller family sizes.

As a former teenager myself, I can’t help but recall how universal misery is for teenagers. MANY of us agonized through those years, searching for the reason for our unhappiness. I focused on the meaness of my peers as the reason for my unhappiness. Others laid the fault on their imperfect bodies. Parents, poverty, family size, race and many other scapegoats have taken the blame.

I don’t know you or your situation. But now that you are out of the situation, consider the fact that ALL humanity suffers the consequences of original sin. We are all fallen and inflict wounds on one another. Your parents certainly DID do wrong and harmful things. So did mine. And I have too as a father. And you will too. You can let those facts discourage you or you can have faith that Grace can lift you above yours and your family’s sins and flaws and bring you joy you never expected.

Here’s to the latter approach: 👍
 
Hi Sing, I’m youngest of 3 kids so I don’t know what you have gone through but my mom was 2nd oldest of 11 and she was the “second mommy” a lot like you and this was in the late 40’s and 50’s and she was expected to help with little ones, keep up her grades, do chores, help in the barn, etc.

My hubby was youngest of 11 and he had it most easy as he was youngest but he came from a poor family.

I have suffered with depression since I was 14 yrs old and had eating disorders in my teen years and little was expected of me and I was the baby of the family, so I think that it can happen in any family.

What helped me was to sit down with my parents and talk about my feelings, not in a mean way etc. but just to say " I need to get this off my chest so that I can heal and let go of these feelings" let them know it is not to hurt them but that you need to let this go so you can move on and then forgive them, afterall, they are human and yes, they probably did some things wrong but as you’ll see someday, as a parent we don’t do it all right and many times we wish we could go back and do things different. Work on a “new” relationship with your family, start fresh and try to make it better, it doesn’t have to be bad, I have an amazing relationship with my parents and I’m almost 33 yrs old but I could not get along with them when I was living at home as a teen.

I don’t know of anybody who has the “perfect” childhood, but it is obvious your was extra difficult and I feel so sad for you.

I appreciate your post, as a mother with four children, I too need to be reminded how important it is to give of myself to each of my children and let them know just how wonderful and special they are to me and they are each unique and wonderful in their own way and I love them all for who they are as individuals.

Thank you for reminding me how really important my job as mom is.

You are in my prayers, I hope you will find peace:)
 
I’m sorry for not responding individually to everyone who has responded, i’m trying hard to keep control over my emotions and it makes me very hesitant to say anything. But thank you to everyone for y’all kind advice.

I think that one of the reasons this has become more of an issue for me lately(I had gotten much better at dealing with it) is because I am getting married, and I decided that I am not going to have an extremely large family. I’ve seen too many negative effects on me, and on most of my siblings. 4 children is fine, but if I get to 5, I am not having any more. I don’t care if it means no sex until menopause. I’m trying to learn from observing my parents(and yes, that does include weeding out the dysfunction that comes from both parents’ families.).

But, I’m having some health problems and potentially infertile, so that’s really up to God.

oh, and my parents were devoted to NFP and breastfeeding, and there’s an average of only a year and a half between children. quite often, mom would be pregnant again 3-4 months after giving birth.

I’m not sure why I made this topic, things that I’ve said have probably rankled a few people, but I hope that I can at least be there for my siblings, they’ve got some difficult times ahead, some are already in the rough parts.
 
sing said:
…I hope that I can at least be there for my siblings, they’ve got some difficult times ahead, some are already in the rough parts.
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Sing, that’s so sweet that you want to be there for your brothers and sisters. And they, in turn, will probably also be there for you in the times ahead. Your parents may not have given you the perfect childhood, but they gave you many brothers and sisters. Those brothers and sisters won’t always be young and needy–they too will grow up. Maybe someday they’ll pay back some of the baby sitting and diaper changes by helping you with your own children.

Most of your siblings will probably be around long after your parents have passed away. Maybe your parents didn’t know what they were doing when they made all those babies, but God did. He made them, and He loves each and every one of you as individuals even if you think your parents didn’t. God didn’t just give you to your parents–He gave you to one another. In the years to come you can laugh and cry together about some of these experiences you shared growing up together in a large family.
 
sing said:
I’m not sure why I made this topic, things that I’ve said have probably rankled a few people…
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I think its because of the title:“Unhappy Consequences of Large Families”. The situation presented is not an automatic consequence of having a large family, and some large families have to deal with negative comments a lot already, even if they are a very happy family. Like others mentioned, there are families with less children that experience such feelings, and other large families that don’t (my best friend was 1 of 8 and loved it). (I know you didn’t say it happens to all large families in the body of your post, but anyways) It would have been the same as naming it “Unhappy Consequences of Homeschooling Families” or “Unhappy Consequences of…anything else that may have been a factor but not the cause”. BTW, I too am sad for what you have gone through, regardless of why it may have happened and am glad you are overcoming a lot of things. I wish you the best in your upcoming marriage!!! I hope you are able to find the help you may need to have peace in your life, seeking God’s help all the way. Just do your best to figure out what He asks of you. God Bless you!
 
shirleytowers said:
Rayne,
Was your mom borderline? Or something??
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I don’t know, she was never evaluated. She still has episodes but they are much fewer. Although I don’t live there anymore so I don’t know exactly how much better it is. My dad bought a second house about 10 years ago so he could go there to get a break from her when she flips out.

I remember going to school with very little sleep because she would keep me up all night screaming, banging on furniture ect. My dad did try to get her evaluated once but my mom can act completely normal and actually very warm and friendly when she wants to. My friends even thought I was exaggerating although one by one they eventually saw her action and realized I wasn’t making it up.

The frustrating thing was my mom could fool people and act completely normal. One time I road a mile and half on my bike to my bestfriends house in the rain to get away from her. When my friend’s mom called my parents house my mom told her I left because I didn’t want to clean the bathroom. What really happened is my mother said during one of her screaming episodes (about what an horrible child I was),“Lots of kids run away why don’t you?” The bathroom was never a part of it at all. She flat out lied.So who is the adult going to believe the 14 year old or the parent?

I have no good family memories from my teen years, all my good memories are ones I spent with friends away from the house. My husband was my lifeline. I met him when I was 16 and he got me through the last couple years of highschool without me completely losing my mind.

My mom has really bad episodes usually only a handful of times a year now, and it seems to get a little better each year. Things like my sister’s birthday, the anniversary of her death, and sometimes holidays can set her off. Or sometimes it seems to come out of no where. They can last a couple days to a couple weeks. Luckily I’ve been able to protect my daughter from it. She’s actually a very loving grandmother when she’s normal.
 
Sing,

I’ve stumbled onto this thread a little later I’m sorry. I’ve tried to read most of the advice here and it is very good.

Here is just a little something for you to think about. Jesus himself suffered tremendous loneliness, grief, agitation. He was despised, mocked. He was incredibly alone. I too have dealt with the very dark side of depression and still daily have to work on it. But I remember that in my pain and loneliness, I can unite myself to the suffering of Jesus. Maybe spend some time thinking about what Jesus went through in the garden of Gethsemane. He is there waiting for you to put your focus outward on Him. He called his disciples to spend an hour with Him and they failed - falling asleep. Maybe you can spend that hour with him.

I am praying for you,

Lucy
 
4 children is fine, but if I get to 5, I am not having any more. I don’t care if it means no sex until menopause. I’m trying to learn from observing my parents(and yes, that does include weeding out the dysfunction that comes from both parents’ families.).
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Don’t forget you’ll need a husband that agrees to this.

Don’t learn the wrong lessons. Satan wants nothing more than for you to have a bad childhood, then blame all those bad results on the good things your parents did. Satan is a master at this. He duped me and my siblings for the longest time.

It was only through the Catholic Church, and long talks with my parents that I began to see that the problems weren’t because of what my parents did “right”. The problems, as logic ought to tell us, were a result of my parents’ shortcomings as Catholics.

Perhaps if Mom didn’t undermine Dad’s discipline we children would have been easier on her.

Perhaps if Dad wasn’t overly involved in his career he would have helped Mom more.

It’s quite interesting. We recently had a visit from a couple with a single child. We have 6. I suspect they walked away with a twinge of inadequacy as their child was an obvious brat. Our children weren’t saints, but were by far more manageable. I overheard the wife talking to my wife saying that she wished she could get her kids (teens from a previous relationship of hers) to do the dishes (ours were washing dishes when they arrived). My wife (she’s so awesome) must have given me some credit because I heard my name mentioned several times.
 
Sing, just take it one day at a time and let God be in control, don’t worry about how many kids you will or won’t have, just lean on the Lord and give it to him, your not married yet, so of course it seems very overwhelming, I have 4 kids and can’t have more, I always thought I would have at least 6 kids, and who knows with fostering or adoption, maybe and hey maybe not, God has a plan for each of us, some of us will be called to have many children, some of us will not, but more important is leaning on God and letting him lead you and not the other way around.

You know what you didn’t like in your parents parenting methods, well, learn from that, I know I have, I have looked at my own childhood from the time I was pregnant with my first child and said " I don’t want to do this like my parents or whoever, etc." and " I do hope I will parent like this person or that" and then just leave it in Gods hands.

Don’t put a number on how many kids you’ll have, I always said “we will have 6 at least” I never once prayed about it, I just was so " oh, yes we will" and we had two miscarriages, so really, I have had 6 pregnancies, so this might be God’s way of saying, you did have six and two are waiting for you in Heaven, but I had to learn, it is Not in my hands or my control, just like the couple who want a baby more than anything and can’t get pregnant, some things are not in our control, we must put it in God’s hands and leave it to him, I know that is hard, I struggle with this every day of my life, but I must let God lead and not let myself lead. When I do let God lead my life, it is just amazing how wonderful life can be.

One day at a time:)
 
Hi Sing,

I can totally relate to you. I am the oldest of 8 children and spent most of my childhood and teenage years helping my mom with my siblings.

I went through some difficult years in my teens and early twenties. I did manage to graduate from a good Jesuit college, but threw out a lot of my Catholic upbringing along the way.

It was through the grace of God that I met my husband in my mid twenties. He brought me back to the faith and now we have children of our own. I’ve forgiven my parents umpteen times over ever since I had my first child and realized about all the sacrifices that I couldn’t see as a child and teenager.

That said, I don’t desire a large family for some of the reasons you wrote about. I still think that I needed more of my parent’s attention when I was in my teenage years than I received. I want to be there for my children, and do all the things that my parents couldn’t do for us when we were little.

Interestingly enough, I have three sisters and none of them desire a large family either.

Hang in there! God works in mysterious ways. Make a life for yourself and keep praying for God’s grace. He will not let you down!
 
Black_Jaque said:
Don’t forget you’ll need a husband that agrees to this.

Don’t learn the wrong lessons. Satan wants nothing more than for you to have a bad childhood, then blame all those bad results on the good things your parents did. Satan is a master at this. He duped me and my siblings for the longest time.

It was only through the Catholic Church, and long talks with my parents that I began to see that the problems weren’t because of what my parents did “right”.
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I am engaged, we’ve talked it out many times. Definitely on the same page with this. Though, because of my health problems, I may be infertile.

I see nothing acceptable about having children you cannot take care of, even if it’s a result of following Church teachings. Which I am trying to deal with, I’m trying to understand how this kind of behavior can be ancouraged.
 
sing said:
I am engaged, we’ve talked it out many times. Definitely on the same page with this. Though, because of my health problems, I may be infertile.

I see nothing acceptable about having children you cannot take care of, even if it’s a result of following Church teachings. Which I am trying to deal with, I’m trying to understand how this kind of behavior can be ancouraged.
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I hope you have a clear understanding of Church teaching on this matter. The Church doesn’t teach that you have to have all the children you can possibly produce (nor that infertility is somehow inferior). The Church teaches that the marital act must be unaltered (thus NFP is okay for spacing children under the right circumstances) and that you must be open to children. I would suggest perhaps Christopher West’s Good News About Sex and Marriage or maybe Kimberly Hahn’s Lifegiving Love Someone else may have some other book suggestions?? Make sure God is part of your engagment and marriage and let Him lead you to the correct family size!!

God bless,
Jennifer
 
I agree with Jennifer J that it sounds as though you do not understand the teachings of the Catholic Church on the place of sex in marriage. She suggested some excellent resources and I highly recommend them 👍 I think you’ll be somewhat relieved when you learn that the Church doesn’t require us to have as many babies as we possibly can, and it does allow for use of NFP which is close to 100% effective 🙂

But still, you can’t sit on this side of having children and make up your mind about how many is right for your family. Four sounds good to you right now, but maybe after one or two you’ll need to stop. Or maybe after your fourth baby you’ll feel up to trying to conceive blessing #5 🙂 This should be something decided from month to month or year to year, between you, hubby, and God at that time. Not by you and your fiance at the age of 18.

You need to live in the present moment and not in the past or the future. Right now you need to concentrate on your engagement and discern whether this man is the one God wants you to marry. And you need to concentrate on developing yourself. Since this issue is weighing on your heart, it might be a call for you to study up on it. God bless!
 
Rayne,

There is scant chance of getting a borderline into treatment. They don’t think there is anything wrong with them.

Even though she won’t be actually diagnosed, you can kind of Google her symptoms and get some information.

My mom is borderline–as diagnosed by me and my sisters–and your mom sounds like she is, too. Check it out. It gave me a lot of comfort when I found out a) I wasn’t alone and b) she was as crazy as I had always thought she was and c) she couldn’t help it. I know she will never get help, but at least I understand, now.

It was very helpful to me in dealing with her and understanding what was going on all my life! It was great to know she was mentally ill, and it wasn’t me or anyone else, like she always said.

nimh.nih.gov/publicat/bpd.cfm

palace.net/~llama/psych/bpd.html%between%
 
NFP is not as effective for everyone as NFP promoters like to make it out. No, I don’t have a study to back this up with, I have my own observation of my family, and many other large Catholic families. NFP is more of a “we’re trying to follow the Church and oh well here comes another baby, we just have to keep on trusting God. Or become celibate.”

I know the teachings of the Church. It doesn’t require as many children as possible, and it says that there are legitimate reasons for avoiding pregnancy, but NFP and complete abstinence are the only accepted methods of avoiding children. Also sex has two purposes, unitive and procreative, and you cannot separate the two.
 
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