Unhappy marriage

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I’m sorry I struck a chord with you, or if you felt belittled in any way, OP. I did say a couple of hard things.
You wrote a very detailed description and I read everything you said from the very beginning, and then gave you my honest opinion. This is what I thought you were seeking from a forum. We all talk about sex on the Catholic family forum. A lot. (Very much so, indeed) As one of my atheist professors put it, “Catholics are obsessed with sex.” Lol
 
Fwew! Well good. Sound like things will be just fine!

Bye bye now.
 
I got interrupted last night and haven’t got much time this morning.

I appreciate everyone’s concern. Honestly. However, I am obviously approaching matters from a different perspective, in which I know my husband. I guess the main problem is that I don’t think he knows me anymore.

I do have ‘my own life’. I have a job, I volunteer at the children’s primary school one morning a week, I am active in the parish music ministry and I, of course, have the children. What I don’t have is the finance, freedom or time to do much more. The children have to remain my first priority and my parental responsibilities mean that I have little time to do more than I already do - including going to the beauty parlour. :confused:

" you have both put yourselves in a really unhealthy relationship. It’s not going to get better by despairing or pointing fingers."

Exactly. There is no point in playing the blame game. We are where we are and I have to find a way to make this work

In a nutshell, I turned to CAF for advice because I knew what I would hear from the secular world, ‘He’s a jerk, get your own life, you’re better off without him’ or ‘Have more sex girl, get yourself some bc’. I thought if I came here I’d avoid that sort of thing. Let’s take a few things as read:
  1. I love my husband and whilst he may be a jerk at times so can I and I’m pretty sure that he does love me. He’s not going to change his core personality which is dutiful, responsible and dedicated to his work. Neither would I really want him to, it is all part of who he is.
  2. I can’t get anymore independent than I already am without either neglecting my parental responsibilities or leaving him. Both of those are not options.
We are disconnected. We are both living independent lives, barely seeing one another, exhausted and lonely. We also struggle with long periods of abstinence which has badly affected our personal communication and intimacy, i.e bonding not sex. So I really don’t think the answer is for me to get more independent tbh.

As for finances. I appreciate the advice. However I think it is just a feature of current British society. He earns a good salary but it is not high flying money. Nowhere near six figure monies anyway. Cost of living here is very high. Housing is ridiculously expensive and compared to larger countries like the US and Australia very cramped - especially for the cost. Fuel, both domestic and transport is very high too. Taxes are high for us as his income whilst not extravagant places him in the higher earnings bracket. Food is also very expensive at the moment. Childcare costs are among the highest in the world. We’re not broke but we don’t have any extra floating about. We get by. Like most middle income families in the UK. TBC
Well good! Sounds like you will be just fine after all.

You’re welcome…you know, about the concern. Anytime someone writes 4 or 5 posts detailing how miserable they are and gets perfect strangers around the world taking the time to not only read the posts, but thinking about the posters situation, then formulating responses based on their own life experiences to later hear… “thanks for your concern…but”. You know, that’s just swell.

Based on the post above, you sound like a person who has everything under control! Good for you! Best wishes!!

Bye!
 
That’s ok, faithsmind. I have realised that everyone here means well and whilst the replies I have had have not been what I expected or even directly relevant they have given me pause for thought and forced me to examine what the issues really are. I don’t want to waste time on irrelevancies or long posts defending our circumstances. They are what they are. I’m more concerned with our relationship. Or lack of it. Given that we are already living separate lives I doubt that my concentrating even more on my own life and not worrying about our life as a couple is going to help any!

The biggest issue is that we don’t actually talk properly. I think. We are so busy and spend so much time apart that I have been bottling up a lot because I don’t want to upset the short amount of time we do actually have together.

My husband is also one of those people who doesn’t like to rock the boat. If the swan appears to be serenely gliding across the lake he has no desire to look underneath to see the panicked paddling actually going on :). When confronted by my distress he doesn’t know how to handle it. He wants to ‘fix’ it. Immediately. Of course it’s not that easy. As far as he’s concerned if there is no direct action to take, if I can’t tell him exactly what I want to be different, then there is no point talking. There’s nothing he can do. It’s just upsetting ourselves to no purpose.

The apparently easy and obvious fixes are neither practical nor actually that easy. The obvious and easy solution is for him to change his job. But this is neither practical nor easy. He has spent his entire working life becoming more and more specialised. Whilst demand for his expertise is high within his company there are not many companies that would need his level of skill and therefore remunerate him to anywhere near the same degree. At least not without us having to emigrate. He could have a complete career change but that would mean a significant drop in income which in the current economic circumstances would be irresponsible. And that’s before we consider our duty towards our own elderly parents and the costs of caring for them.

We’re both exhausted. I have the added complication of my mental health being unstable. Even I have difficulty in distinguishing the difference between my depressive thoughts and real issues. He has no chance, he can’t read my mind and he’s not a psychiatrist! If I’m upset he blames himself. He immediately assumes that he needs to do something to make it better. Not that we need to make some changes, bang some ideas around, come to a joint conclusion of what we both want and need. He wants answers. Clear cut. “If YOU do x then everything will be fine.” Relationships aren’t like that though. Life isn’t like that. People, especially those with mental health issues, are much more complicated than that.

One thought I have had is that both of us have got into the habit of avoiding talking about ‘difficult’ subjects because we don’t want to cause the other to be upset. As long as we don’t talk about things then both of us can outwardly cope with living our separate lives and we can appear just like that swan. But that isn’t a proper marriage. This is what marriage is to me - www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qgz_xsdbEks

If we do start to talk then there is inevitably tears and recriminations and this affects the children (especially our eldest who is very perceptive) as we are never alone until our eldest child is asleep*, it’s late and we go to bed - that’s where the sex element creeps in I suppose. It is the most natural thing in the world for a couple to turn to one another physically in this space but most of the time we can’t or do not feel able to and abide by doctrine. It is unnatural and not conducive to healthy sleep to start talking about emotive subjects at bedtime! Result: we don’t talk. Plus, we never actually solve anything. I’m not sure there is anything to solve. There is a situation to manage. Currently we are managing it badly. That is what has got to change.

*Before anyone goes off on a tangent here. Our eldest is 13 years old. We could send him to his room early to have time alone, but he’s not going to go to sleep until at least 9.30pm and as long as he is awake he can hear everything that is happening elsewhere in the house - bad soundproofiing, that’s British building for you :). Don’t suggest babysitters either please. We’ve looked into that and there are reasons why we can’t use a regular sitter. I’d love to go on a Marriage Encounter weekend but we haven’t anyone to care for the children whilst we go. Childcare is a large part of this I suppose. It will pass as they get older, I know. In the meantime however we are drifting further and further apart living our separate lives. I already feel that he doesn’t know me anymore. All he knows about me is that I have an objective medical condition which affects my perception of reality and that of course is a convenient ‘free pass’ to not deal with anything that I’m upset about - it’s just the depression talking, there isn’t anything really wrong. Who knows, maybe he’s right?
 
I wish I did have everything under control 🤷. I don’t even have myself under control.

Please keep me in your prayers and thank you for your support. x

PS I’m actually at work atm and I shouldn’t be posting here at all. So my responses may be a bit hit and miss for the next 48 hours.
 
CAF has a private message system that allows for more confidentiality.
 
Lillibut said:

“Given that we are already living separate lives I doubt that my concentrating even more on my own life and not worrying about our life as a couple is going to help any!
The biggest issue is that we don’t actually talk properly. I think. We are so busy and spend so much time apart that I have been bottling up a lot because I don’t want to upset the short amount of time we do actually have together.”

Do a personal finance course TOGETHER. You can do an online one when he’s on the road, and it will improve your communication when he’s away. (A lot of US Army personnel do this with their wives when they are deployed abroad.)

A lot of people find that working on finances together is the key to improving communication and cooperation throughout the marriage.

You can do this without expecting any major personality changes from your husband.

You are struggling financially–work on your finances TOGETHER.
 
OP,

You can call it whatever you want. But if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I’m calling it a duck.

Honey, wives of emotional abuse can spot each other a mile away.
  1. You ran off a list of his accomplishments before you even said what his offenses were. It’s like you’re justifying his behavior. Because he’s a scientist and left-brained and works crazy hours does not give him license to treat you the way he’s been treating you. No person, EVER should treat another person like that.
  2. Your initial posts were so detailed, and you said yourself that you are trying to sort out your thoughts and feelings. It’s because your mind and heart and spirit are in such knots, you don’t even know up from down right now. Honey, we’ve been there.
  3. You defend him. You post his offenses, then when perfect strangers call him a jerk, or abusive, you defend him. Honey, you opened this can of worms but you don’t want to dig your fingers down there and face the mess for what it is. We’ve all been there too.
  4. You’re breaking down, even though from all external views, you look like a very happy, successful family. Yep. Hi-five. We’ve been there to.
  5. How is your relationship with your parents? Can you ever please them? Or does every encounter with them leave you with a dull ache in your soul…so you go on and make excuses for them… Ya, we’ve been there too.
OP, you are not crazy. You’ve been living with a person who needs help and is too proud to come out and ask for it.

It’s the “behave like a normal human being” statement that really boils my blood. Why does it make me angry? Because sooner or later, he will say that to one of your children. Maybe in a moment of teenage angst. Maybe over a trivial thing. Who cares. You are the only person who can protect your children from soul-killing statements like this. WAKE UP.

Get yourself healthy. Get yourself strong. Your children need you to be the best, happiest, most joyful you you can be.

I’m not telling you to join the circus, or divorce him, or slander him or throw him under the bus for heaven’s sake. I’m telling you to take care of yourself and take care of your children.

I know this all from experience. You CAN do this and he WILL notice. You are going to have to be the one to pull your marriage from the edge of the toilet. And the only way you can do that is to get yourself better first. Become formidable! Then…then…address him kindly and with grace. You be the strong one, then you will see that he has a lot of problems, and you can help to see him through those problems. You save him. That’s how it works.
Or daughters of abuse. I was emotionally abused by my father, and to a certain extent my mother, and watched my father emotionally abuse my mother. I recognize it all too well. It’s all there in the OP’s original post.

I agree with everything Pumpkin Pies said.
 
Lillibut said:

“The obvious and easy solution is for him to change his job. But this is neither practical nor easy. He has spent his entire working life becoming more and more specialised.”

They will hand him a pink slip and a cardboard box (or the British equivalent) when he turns 50, after they’ve squeezed all the juices out of him. And I’m sure knowing that is adding to his stress level. He’s going to work, work, work to keep that from happening and work himself right into a heart attack, and then he’ll still get fired if he survives it.

Come to think of it, is he adequately insured? The US standards for this are to carry 8-10X annual income in term life insurance.

The reason it’s “obvious and easy” is that it’s the right answer to be planning a transition to a more secure, lower-travel lifestyle. Maybe you won’t ever need to use it, but if you know that the groundwork is laid and you have a doomsday plan for living on half your income, both of you will have less stress. “Everything’s going to go exactly as it is right now and nothing bad is ever going to happen to us” is not a plan.

“Not that we need to make some changes, bang some ideas around, come to a joint conclusion of what we both want and need.”

Start doing that. Doing an online personal finance course is a simple, inexpensive way to start.

“It is unnatural and not conducive to healthy sleep to start talking about emotive subjects at bedtime!”

Agreed. Can you schedule talks during school hours?

Also, marriage counseling. He’ll feel safer talking to you in front of a third party.
 
I wish I did have everything under control 🤷. I don’t even have myself under control.

Please keep me in your prayers and thank you for your support. x

PS I’m actually at work atm and I shouldn’t be posting here at all. So my responses may be a bit hit and miss for the next 48 hours.
I what think Pumpk(name removed by moderator)ies meant is you came on here, wrote an extremely long and detailed post about how depressed you are, how you are having a mental breakdown, how you have been to different doctors and psychologists and can’t find anyone to help you, how your husband won’t talk to you unless he can have sex with you, how you were so distressed that you ran away and your husband told you to “act like a normal human being” or else he wouldn’t talk to you…

My dear…do you have any idea how bad that sounds?

Then we give you our opinion…some of us who have experience with such things say his behavior seems like emotional abuse and have given you suggestions as to what to do, and you act as if we have offended you and your husband.

In your later posts, you continue to say it’s really not as bad as you made it seem previously…

Need I repeat - you had a mental breakdown, are depressed, ran away, are miserable in your marriage…

I’m confused. :confused:
 
I will also just point out that many people come on here and ask for advice, get advice that they don’t want to hear, and then just continue on and handle the situation in the way they would have if they had never asked for advice in the first place.

Makes me wonder why they asked at all.

I stand by what I said. If I am wrong because I do not know all the details, I apologize. But based on what I know from your posts, my opinion stands.
 
Xantippe, I’ll take your advice on board about the personal finance course. It certainly isn’t going to hurt :).

“he worried constantly that…his job meant he could not be physically available for our children but that a change of job would mean that he would not be financially able to continue to support our family”
“If he changed jobs to one less demanding of his time then he would inevitably take a significant pay cut. This would mean us no longer being able to afford the mortgage on our home or any other within the parish to which we now belonged or local to any of the friends I had now made.”

I’m guessing lines such as these from my original posts are why you think that we are ‘struggling’. My bad. What I was trying to get across is that my husband has a strong ethic to be the provider and that he had genuine concerns about my mental health, our financial stability and his absences. He is also a lot more careful with money than I am. This normally works ok, I loosen the purse-strings if they’re a little too tight whilst he tightens them up a bit if I’m being too profligate :).

“a small house near campus for $140k and did another $55k or so in renovations”. Just to get this in perspective, I did some calculations and this is around £120k. Our current mortgage is a lot more than that and we do not live in an expensive/affluent area. In fact our parish is considered a deprived area compared to the surrounding neighbourhoods in our city.

I probably made things sound a lot tougher than they are tbh. We are not ‘struggling’, cetainly compared to many others in the UK or even our city. We are certainly a lot better off than most and I am grateful for what we have. What we don’t have is spare cash available to splash out on personal enrichment (including online financial courses if I’m honest). We pay the bills and I can’t say that we want materially for anything. It’s just that housing, food, fuel, school and childcare costs for a family in the UK are very high. We also cannot afford to deliberately half our household income if there is an alternative.

The average family size in the UK is now less than 2 children i.e below population sustainability level, which coincidentally is why we have such high immigration. By having only 3 children our family has more than double average living costs (which are already noted to be high) with none of the assistance that lower income households would be eligible for. I’m not complaining, just stating facts. Most middle income families have one child. A few have two. More than two children is considered a large family here. More than three kids and the rest of society looks askance (even church members :() and the implicit assumption being fed to us continuously in the media is that any family with more than two children must be either extremely wealthy or living off benefits. It’s a very uncomfortable society in which to raise a Catholic family:(

OTOH we both have elderly mothers (at opposite ends of the country). My mother is in frail health and I wouldn’t wish to emigrate for the time being as she could need me at any time. So the UK is where we are. His job is what it is and isn’t going to change any time soon. Neither is he. None of these things are de-facto bad. They are just the challenges that we face.

Thanks again for listening. I hope I’m not boring you 🙂
 
Lillbut,

OMG it is like you are living my life. I too have suffered depression and anxiety, which almost caused me to lose my life when I was 21 from anorexia, being 5’5 and weighting 65 pounds. I was very up front to my husband when we were dating about all my issues and that I didn’t thank he could handle them if we got married. After 19 years of marriage he has seem to come to that conclusion also.

My husband is also a scientist, very highly thought of in the US in his field. He has always been loved and adored by everyone around him. never being told he does anything wrong. I on the other hand am the youngest of five and have was always been told to change or that I wasn’t right about anything.

After I told one his friends I was anorexic, which was necessary at the time, he cut me off from anyone he knew before me. Then when he found out so many people where our children went to school knew me at my worst, he stopped doing anything with me. We now spend our lives passing each other by as we take our children where we need to go.

He told me the other day he is just not comfortable with me anymore, but he doesn’t want to divorce. I am now deciding what to do. I have no support system to help if I leave; in fact there will be many that will severely thrash me if I go, saying he was way too good for me. My children see how unhappy we are, which worries me. We have been to counseling, but I will never be what he wants, and my main concern is for him to get the chance to be happy and my children have the chance at happiness which I think is more likely if we are a part.

I say this so much on this site but talk to your priest, don’t just take advice of the people here, even me. A good priest will hear your pain and advice. I feel your pain. I am grateful for my many blessing in my life and thank God everyday, but I am alone in my own home which make me very sad.

The anxiety medicine I take saves my life I could simply not function without. It helps me focus on where God is trying to guide me. I am fairly sure when my children are gone my husband will leave. Don’t listen to anyone who has not faced a similar situation. A priest told my parents after trying to save their marriage to divorce because it was doing to much damage to them emotionally and spiritually as well as doing a great deal of damage to their children. I wish you the very best for all.
 
Our Lady, Blessed Virgin, Mother of God and our mother also. Wrap your mantle about your daughter Shelby Sun. Pray to your blessed Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ to breathe the Holy Spirit into her heart that she may be granted strength, wisdom and peace through these trials.

Amen
 
Our Lady, Blessed Virgin, Mother of God and our mother also. Wrap your mantle about your daughter Shelby Sun. Pray to your blessed Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ to breathe the Holy Spirit into her heart that she may be granted strength, wisdom and peace through these trials.

Amen
Lillibut,

Thank you for your prayer. I will be praying for you as well and for your family.
 
I wish I did have everything under control 🤷. I don’t even have myself under control.

Please keep me in your prayers and thank you for your support. x

PS I’m actually at work atm and I shouldn’t be posting here at all. So my responses may be a bit hit and miss for the next 48 hours.
I think you kind of hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately your husband cannot make you happy anymore the you can truly make him happy.

Happiness comes from within.

I would advise you to begin slowly with praying the rosary everday, maybe on our way to work, etc. or whenever you can find sometime alone.

I have found intercession with the Blessed Mother is AMAZING! Ask her to pray with you, and go to God with you to help you figure this thing out.

Caution, it will take time, but you will SLOWLY become to realize through this process you will begin to feel peace in your life. And with peace happiness can’t help but to follow.

Remember you can’t fix your husband anymore the he can fix you. But you can fix yourself with patience and prayer and time.

It sounds to me like you are both pretty miserable at this time. I have been married for 33 years, and I am happier now then I ever was. But I can still get my ups and downs, we all do.

Trust God, and continue to Pray, and know he will help you. His love never fails, nor does the Love of the Blessed Mother. Just knowing you are loved SO much should help get your day started.

Before long you will begin to find happiness in small things, the Sun, Snow, etc. Take things one day at a time and find ONE thing today no matter how small that makes you happy.

If its just a funny joke. etc. And remember begin to Laugh again. It truly is a small wonder.

If its just looking at your legs and saying I can Walk, or see. It can be a life changing way of life.

Then think do I have what I need or want? Or do I want or need what I have. Its a small start, but a start.
 
Pumpk(name removed by moderator)ie37
“if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I’m calling it a duck.”
Hi.
I re-read your post and it did strike a deep chord in me. I did identify with so much that you said. I shed a few tears 😦

I don’t know. Maybe I’m not ready to face such harsh realities. I am trying to get myself well and I have spent the past 13 years building an independent life. So independent I wonder why I’m still married. This was why I struggled initially to take in what you were saying. He doesn’t control me. He’s not here most of the time so he doesn’t get the opportunity. I’ve been seeing a counsellor for the past 4 months and I believe I am making progress.

The only thing part of my 4 post story that I haven’t shared with my counsellor is the bit about our sex life. Why? Because I know that it is highly likely that she will counsel me away from Church teaching. That’s why I came here. I wanted to hear from others who already understood that aspect so wouldn’t jump on the easy bandwagon. That’s all.

All the rest was to illustrate the particular circumstances we are living with in order to avoid getting tangentially onto NFP etc. It happened anyway. :rolleyes:

Then came the replies about emotional abuse.:eek: I’m not shrugging off your comments or insights. It just had never occured to me previously to view my husband in this way. I’m listening and discerning. Thanks for taking the time to read my story and to post.

God bless
L
 
Maybe you’ve covered it and I missed it somewhere in these pages, but is there any reason you cannot move to a less expensive place to live? I know parents usually cite the great schools and parish, but those truthfully aren’t as important as many think they are when weighed against parents who are home together raising the children while showing them what marriage is by example every day. If your husbands job has him travelling all around during the week anyways, why not go to a less expansive area, recover the spirit of adventure from your early marriage, and see if you’d be able to save more money.Maybe a substantial amount over time with the reduced living expenses would both provide some future security and reduce the stress and burden your husband feels.
 
Hi.
I re-read your post and it did strike a deep chord in me. I did identify with so much that you said. I shed a few tears 😦

I don’t know. Maybe I’m not ready to face such harsh realities. I am trying to get myself well and I have spent the past 13 years building an independent life. So independent I wonder why I’m still married. This was why I struggled initially to take in what you were saying. He doesn’t control me. He’s not here most of the time so he doesn’t get the opportunity. I’ve been seeing a counsellor for the past 4 months and I believe I am making progress.

The only thing part of my 4 post story that I haven’t shared with my counsellor is the bit about our sex life. Why? Because I know that it is highly likely that she will counsel me away from Church teaching. That’s why I came here. I wanted to hear from others who already understood that aspect so wouldn’t jump on the easy bandwagon. That’s all.

All the rest was to illustrate the particular circumstances we are living with in order to avoid getting tangentially onto NFP etc. It happened anyway. :rolleyes:

Then came the replies about emotional abuse.:eek: I’m not shrugging off your comments or insights. ** It just had never occured to me previously to view my husband in this way. ** I’m listening and discerning. Thanks for taking the time to read my story and to post.

God bless
L
It never occurred me to see my father in this way either. He, like your husband, has many good qualities and he can be very kind. But he also exhibit behaviors that can be classified as mental abuse, and, even though there was a lot of good, both my mother and I suffered a great deal from his abusive words and actions, so much that I went to therapy, was medicated, etc. To this day, I am still trying to make peace with it and forgive and move on. 😦
 
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