United States Citizenship

[Kendy]

Citizenship has certain duties associated with it, as you know; voting, paying taxes, serving on jury duty when called. I must admit that it bugs me a bit when you are living under the umbrella of all that this country affords you, but don’t want to contribute your citizenship.

I think people underestimate the personal cost of moving from the country you happen to find yourselves. Most people around the world (including people living in Iraq) just stay where they are because moving involving taking a risk on an unknown.

As for what the country affords me, I pay taxes, more than I think I should pay, so I am paying for what the country affords me.

Kendy

 

[Newbie2]

I think we all pay more taxes than we think we should.

I look at citizenship as coming with more obligations than just paying for a service.

 

[Kendy]

I think we all pay more taxes than we think we should.

I look at citizenship as coming with more obligations than just paying for a service.

What are the benefits?

Although I don’t know that I think it matters one should not look to become a citizen for benefits.

 

[puzzleannie]

you are confusing the rights and duties of citizenship with popular culture.

study the former, ignore the latter, and if you want to live here, become a citizen so you can vote and influence the extent to which the latter corrupts the civic life of the nation.

We don’t judge all Haitians by Papa Doc and his successors, so don’t judge all Americans by TV images.

If you enjoy the benefits of living here without taking part in the political process, you really have no room to complain, any more than the existing citizens who are also lacking in a sense of civic duty.

 

[Kendy]

**you are confusing the rights and duties of citizenship with popular culture. **

But these things are related. Popular culture seems to value security over freedom so it seems inevitable that this country will sign up for a multi-billion dollar health care. Who is to be blame for people who took out mortages they could not afford (ANYONE, but the people who borrowed the money.)

But the thing about popular culture that concerns me the most is how people raise kids. All the adults I come across seem to think that their children’s desire for a new sweater is a command. I seem to be the only person who thinks it’s not ok for teenagers to yell “I hate you” because you ask them to clean their room. I tell my American friens that never in my Haitian American upbringing did I ever witness this behavior and they think I am crazy. So, I am not enthusiastic about raising kids in a culture. I will paying for public schools that I can’t imagine sending my dog to. And I don’t see the tide turning any time soon. American society is increasingly immoral and dictorial to people who don’t want to participate. Do you know recently, a catholic hospital was forced to provide transgendered surgery? How’s that freedom?

**We don’t judge all Haitians by Papa Doc and his successors, so don’t judge all Americans by TV images. **
I am not judging ALL Americans. But TV producers provide their viewers with what they want. What is on TV reflective of what people want to see. When I go back to work the next day, it does seem like everyone has feasted on several hours of television, including all the catholics and evangelicals. In fact, I find it difficult to carry on a conversation with most people because I am not up on the latest popular culture and you almost have to be if you want to be part of it.

But more importantly, isn’t being part of a country being part of the culture?

Kendy

 

[Newbie2]

You’re a part of the culture now, living in the United States. You becoming a citizen and using your influence to change things is for the better.

I sense doubt on your part about what freedom really means or if we really have it. Do some homework; we’re the most free society on the planet.

The answer is not sticking your head in the sand and complaining about it, the answer is doing your part to change what you do not like about our society, and you can’t do much as a non-citizen.

 

[Kendy]

I sense doubt on your part about what freedom really means or if we really have it. Do some homework; we’re the most free society on the planet.

The answer is not sticking your head in the sand and complaining about it, the answer is doing your part to change what you do not like about our society, and you can’t do much as a non-citizen.

Well, I don’t want to stick my head in the sand. Although I am tempted to become amish or something just to get away. It’s too bad there’s not a catholic equivalent to that.

One can’t make a huge difference when you are a tiny minority. Democracy is often just tyrrany of ther majority. And when the majority takes my money (That is my time, talent, and energies) to fund stupid things or immoral things, then I am not free. I am a slave to someone else’s causes. But unfortunately, that seems to be the wave of the future. Bigger government, with more constricted markets and a smaller role for families. And as our families get more unstable, who else is going to fill the gap but government.

Right now, I have no doubt that I will soon be paying for a big national health care plan, which will be expensive and inefficient. And it’s only a matter of time before, some demands that this universal health care pay for her abortion or his sex change operation and some judge says this is a violation of their civil rights.

And why is this going to happen? Because like it or not, that’s what most Americans want.

Kendy

P.S. Maybe, I am just having election fatigue.

 

[Della]

Well, first of all my parents did the voting since I was a kid. Second, while there are lots of problems in Haiti. There are cultural things in Haiti that I think are better. For example, we take care of our parents till they die. We don’t drop them off somewhere. And Haitian teenagers are a lot less disrespectful.

Having said that, I am not that passionate about being a Haitian citizen either. I don’t love the Haitian people more than I love the American people.

Kendy

You don’t have to love the Haitian people more than Americans in order to be a good Haitian. Patriotism is like family affections in that it is natural. It does not mean that they are loved more than others. If you prefer life in Haiti then return to Haiti and be content. If you prefer to live in America, then stay here, become a full citizen and be content. And by content I mean enter into the life of whichever country you prefer to live in so that you can help to better it.

 

[po18guy]

Well, I don’t want to stick my head in the sand. Although I am tempted to become amish or something just to get away. It’s too bad there’s not a catholic equivalent to that.

Matthew 10:16 "I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves."

See how following Christ is not the easy way? But, we are called to be amongst the sinful of this world, just as Christ taught among sinners. It is they who need the doctor, not the well.

Right now, I have no doubt that I will soon be paying for a big national health care plan, which will be expensive and inefficient. And it’s only a matter of time before, some demands that this universal health care pay for her abortion or his sex change operation and some judge says this is a violation of their civil rights.

Like abortion, we must work constantly against evil. This life is our test for the next, which will not end and carries the promise of perfection.

John 16:33 "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."

And why is this going to happen? Because like it or not, that’s what most Americans want.

Since we are made up of those from the entire world, it is human nature that you are seeing. It is human nature that leads us to sin. That is precisely what we must spend our lifetimes combatting. We will have an easier time if you join us. Welcome!

P.S. Maybe, I am just having election fatigue.

You will be amazed at how your attitude improves once you “divorce” yourself from the media. I cancelled the newspapers, turned off talk radio, and stopped watching TV. I listen only to Catholic radio. What an improvement! Give it a month and check back with us.

Christ’s peace.

 

[Kendy]

Matthew 10:16 "I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves."

See how following Christ is not the easy way? But, we are called to be amongst the sinful of this world, just as Christ taught among sinners. It is they who need the doctor, not the well.

Like abortion, we must work constantly against evil. This life is our test for the next, which will not end and carries the promise of perfection.

John 16:33 "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."

Since we are made up of those from the entire world, it is human nature that you are seeing. It is human nature that leads us to sin. That is precisely what we must spend our lifetimes combatting. We will have an easier time if you join us. Welcome!

You will be amazed at how your attitude improves once you “divorce” yourself from the media. I cancelled the newspapers, turned off talk radio, and stopped watching TV. I listen only to Catholic radio. What an improvement! Give it a month and check back with us.

Christ’s peace.

Yes, I have been sick in bed so it’s been all television all day everyday. NOT good!

 

[po18guy]

Yes, I have been sick in bed so it’s been all television all day everyday. NOT good!

I am praying for you!

The peace of Christ always be with you.

 

[Kendy]

I am praying for you!

The peace of Christ always be with you.

Thank you

 

[hasikelee]

I actually don’t dislike America. I am just not more loyal to America than any other country. I don’t like contemporary American popular culture, which I find a little coarse. But I don’t wish America or her people ill. But I am not sure what is a good reason for becoming an American. I guess, since I live here I might as well get the right to vote. Do Americans expect more than that for people who seek citizenship. I would think so.

Kendy

Exactly what I was speculating. Being a non-citizen, you are balking at the cons related to citizenship. It doesn’t have anything necessarily to do with a specific country.

Taxes, homogenous culture, values, morals, nationalism, these are things that you didn’t have to absolutely follow due to not being an American citizen.

 

[Kendy]

Exactly what I was speculating. Being a non-citizen, you are balking at the cons related to citizenship. It doesn’t have anything necessarily to do with a specific country.

Taxes, homogenous culture, values, morals, nationalism, these are things that you didn’t have to absolutely follow due to not being an American citizen.

Well, I pay taxes? I am not sure what you mean?

 

[Wirraway]

here’s a link on how to renounce your U.S. citizenship.

travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

its fairly simple: (1) appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer, (2) in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and (3) sign an oath of renunciation.

you’ll permanently renounce all rights and privileges of being a citizen (this might pose an immediate problem, since one of the things you’ll be renouncing is the protection of the US government). of course, will have problems returning to the USofA as you’ll need a visa a passport from another nation, but as you’ll be stateless, good luck on that. and good luck on getting a visa from the US.

but no doubt you can find another nation as accomodating illegal aliens as we are here.

 

[HM8404]

Kendy,

You want to know why patriotism is such a virtue?

All too often people slander this nation of mine but they forget about so many things.

They forget about the Continental Soldier who froze to death in Valley Forge to give this country freedom.

They forget about the Sailor who was hit by a cannonball in sea warfare to free captured Americans from British hands.

They forget about the Union Soldiers who were gunned down fighting to free the slaves.

They forget about the Marine in Belleauwood who died repelling the German invasion.

They forget about the Soldiers breaking through the gates of Dachau to put an end to extermination.

They forget about the Marines and Corpsman who fought to save island after island from Japanese imperialism.

They forget about the sons and daughters who never came home from Korea to free the South from Communism’s grip.

They forget about the Helicopter pilot who risked his life to make an obstacle between his comrades and Vietnamese to end the My Lai massacre.

They forget about the air crew that burned to death in the desert in their ill fated attempt to free American hostages in Iran.

They forget about the Ranger who died on an air strip to free Grenada.

They forget about the Soldiers who apprehended Noriega.

They forget about the Gulf War vet who is bald and infertile because of his participation in liberating Kuwait.

They forget about the Delta operator who died fighting militant war lords to feed starving Somalis.

They forget about the Airborne Soldier who found death in a minefield to stop the genocide of ethnic Albanians in Kosovo.

They forget about the Green beret in Afghanistan who organized the resistance against the Taliban.

They forget about the countless GI’s who jumped on IED’s to spare the life of innocent Iraqi children.

And they forget about the countless Americans who died fighting for racial equality, womens rights and countless other righteous causes throughout the ages.

America is not perfect (no nation is) and we sure as heck don’t try to act like we are.

If this doesn’t register with you then you do not belong in the United States of America because we have enough of citizens who are actively raping, slaughtering and destroying everything we stand for. I am not happy with the culture either but that’s something you have to take with a grain of salt – we have freedom and that includes sin, too, unfortunately but that’s when you rise above the mud of evil and set an example for others to follow.

People like to twist things but let’s face one cold fact: The US could subject the world to all kinds of terrible things – namely colonization but yet with all of this power we have, we are also humble enough to not be greedy and randomly invade countries, annex the territory and move on.

We are the gentle giant.

Tell me if you don’t think our patriotism is a virtue now.

 

[Kendy]

here’s a link on how to renounce your U.S. citizenship.

travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

its fairly simple: (1) appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer, (2) in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and (3) sign an oath of renunciation.

you’ll permanently renounce all rights and privileges of being a citizen (this might pose an immediate problem, since one of the things you’ll be renouncing is the protection of the US government). of course, will have problems returning to the USofA as you’ll need a visa a passport from another nation, but as you’ll be stateless, good luck on that. and good luck on getting a visa from the US.

but no doubt you can find another nation as accomodating illegal aliens as we are here.

Well, many European nations are pretty as accomodating to illegal aliens and there’s almost no restrictions in many of Island nations for the foreign born. I know it’s shocking but there are other people around the world who are as nice as Americans.

Anyway, I am well aware that my choices suck.

 

[Kendy]

Kendy,

You want to know why patriotism is such a virtue?

All too often people slander this nation of mine but they forget about so many things.

They forget about the Continental Soldier who froze to death in Valley Forge to give this country freedom.

They forget about the Sailor who was hit by a cannonball in sea warfare to free captured Americans from British hands.

They forget about the Union Soldiers who were gunned down fighting to free the slaves.

They forget about the Marine in Belleauwood who died repelling the German invasion.

They forget about the Soldiers breaking through the gates of Dachau to put an end to extermination.

They forget about the Marines and Corpsman who fought to save island after island from Japanese imperialism.

They forget about the sons and daughters who never came home from Korea to free the South from Communism’s grip.

They forget about the Helicopter pilot who risked his life to make an obstacle between his comrades and Vietnamese to end the My Lai massacre.

They forget about the air crew that burned to death in the desert in their ill fated attempt to free American hostages in Iran.

They forget about the Ranger who died on an air strip to free Grenada.

They forget about the Soldiers who apprehended Noriega.

They forget about the Gulf War vet who is bald and infertile because of his participation in liberating Kuwait.

They forget about the Delta operator who died fighting militant war lords to feed starving Somalis.

They forget about the Airborne Soldier who found death in a minefield to stop the genocide of ethnic Albanians in Kosovo.

They forget about the Green beret in Afghanistan who organized the resistance against the Taliban.

They forget about the countless GI’s who jumped on IED’s to spare the life of innocent Iraqi children.

And they forget about the countless Americans who died fighting for racial equality, womens rights and countless other righteous causes throughout the ages.

America is not perfect (no nation is) and we sure as heck don’t try to act like we are.

If this doesn’t register with you then you do not belong in the United States of America because we have enough of citizens who are actively raping, slaughtering and destroying everything we stand for. I am not happy with the culture either but that’s something you have to take with a grain of salt – we have freedom and that includes sin, too, unfortunately but that’s when you rise above the mud of evil and set an example for others to follow.

People like to twist things but let’s face one cold fact: The US could subject the world to all kinds of terrible things – namely colonization but yet with all of this power we have, we are also humble enough to not be greedy and randomly invade countries, annex the territory and move on.

We are the gentle giant.

Tell me if you don’t think our patriotism is a virtue now.

I will not dispute your list of virtues, but I could compose a list of sins equally long. I won’t because I don’t particularly want to dwell on the nations past (positive or negative). I will caution you though on your gentle giant image. That is simply not as the world sees us. As someone from Haiti, I can definitely think of ways that the US has used its weight to push its economic interest at the expense of Haiti. I am not saying that US is the worst world power that ever existed, but I am wary of the way we live to airbrush our negatives.

Anyway, like I said, I am not that interested in the past. I am only looking at the culture and political landscape today, and asking myself, Do I fit in here? Do I want to be a part of this? What are my obligations? And what is the best way to live out the only identity that really matters to me, which is being a Christian?

For example, again about the Amish, they have resquested to not to pay taxes so that they can avoid being morally complicit in things, like unjust wars. And I can certainly things of a few unjust and immoral things that my tax dollars fund.

Kendy

 

[HM8404]

I will not dispute your list of virtues, but I could compose a list of sins equally long. I won’t because I don’t particularly want to dwell on the nations past (positive or negative). I will caution you though on your gentle giant image. That is simply not as the world sees us. As someone from Haiti, I can definitely think of ways that the US has used its weight to push its economic interest at the expense of Haiti. I am not saying that US is the worst world power that ever existed, but I am wary of the way we live to airbrush our negatives.

Anyway, like I said, I am not that interested in the past. I am only looking at the culture and political landscape today, and asking myself, Do I fit in here? Do I want to be a part of this? What are my obligations? And what is the best way to live out the only identity that really matters to me, which is being a Christian?

For example, again about the Amish, they have resquested to not to pay taxes so that they can avoid being morally complicit in things, like unjust wars. And I can certainly things of a few unjust and immoral things that my tax dollars fund.

Kendy

I’m in the military and I don’t do it for free college or a spiffy uniform so I’m sure you can understand why I felt compelled to address the patriotism issue but yes, let’s go to current affairs.

Number one, you have no obligations being a citizen other than the ones you have now, i.e. abiding by the law, paying your taxes, etc. and that’s in every country.

What you don’t know is that you are not the only person who is upset by the immoral elements in our culture but how do you live out your Christian identity?

Well, I personally choose to only associate myself with devout Catholics, I don’t lie with dogs so therefore I do not get the fleas. You will never find a country that is absolutely moral because only one place exists and that is the Kingdom of Heaven and that sure as heck isn’t planet Earth.

The political landscape is vast and needs every voice it can get because that is what improves our country – differing points of view and new solutions for problems. So of course you have a place here and you should become a citizen so you can exercise your right to vote and be heard. Casting a vote is much more than just pushing a button – it’s telling Uncle Sam what you think.

It does nothing for me if you stay or don’t but all I’m saying is practice what you preach. I love America so I stay but if I felt unwanted then I would leave. But you’re not unwanted, we are a nation of immigrants and welcome all with open arms.

 

[Kendy]

I’m in the military and I don’t do it for free college or a spiffy uniform so I’m sure you can understand why I felt compelled to address the patriotism issue but yes, let’s go to current affairs.

Number one, you have no obligations being a citizen other than the ones you have now, i.e. abiding by the law, paying your taxes, etc. and that’s in every country.

What you don’t know is that you are not the only person who is upset by the immoral elements in our culture but how do you live out your Christian identity?

Well, I personally choose to only associate myself with devout Catholics, I don’t lie with dogs so therefore I do not get the fleas. You will never find a country that is absolutely moral because only one place exists and that is the Kingdom of Heaven and that sure as heck isn’t planet Earth.

The political landscape is vast and needs every voice it can get because that is what improves our country – differing points of view and new solutions for problems. So of course you have a place here and you should become a citizen so you can exercise your right to vote and be heard. Casting a vote is much more than just pushing a button – it’s telling Uncle Sam what you think.

It does nothing for me if you stay or don’t but all I’m saying is practice what you preach. I love America so I stay but if I felt unwanted then I would leave. But you’re not unwanted, we are a nation of immigrants and welcome all with open arms.

Thanks for your thoughts. And I appreciate your military service.

Kendy