H
HM8404
Guest
No problem. Good luck in your decision, I’ll pray for you tonight.
- Status
po18guy
Well-known member
Kendy, you are a legal resident here, correct? I think some assume you are not. Eligibility for US Citizenship means that you are a legal resident. This is a step that you can ponder for some time before making your decision.Well, many European nations are pretty as accomodating to illegal aliens and there’s almost no restrictions in many of Island nations for the foreign born. I know it’s shocking but there are other people around the world who are as nice as Americans.
Anyway, I am well aware that my choices suck.
And, turn the TV off! It poisons your view of the world. It will even poison you to your faith. Read your bible more and watch TV less. You will note an immediate improvement.
Christ’s peace.
K
Kendy
Guest
I have lived here for 18 years, and I am a legal resident. I am not sure why anyone would assume otherwise. Although I have noticed that there is a crew around here particularly tense about the issue.
Kendy
F
Fred_4
Guest
I don’t think it’s necessary to be a citizen of the US, nor is it bad to be a citizen. I think I understand your position of feeling Catholic above any national identity and that’s probably a good thing!
However, national identity is something that’s part of the human condition for identifying people… similar to race, gender, or religion… although we’re all one human family and all children of God.
There’s good and bad in the US, to be sure… without a doubt. Being patriotic is not to be “Love it or leave it!” or “My country… right or wrong!” This kind of thing is a caricature of patriotism or nationalism.
As for taxes… they’re the price we pay for a civilized society. Death and taxes as the saying goes…
One interesting point, though, is that the U.S. admits more immigrants (both legally and illegally) every year than any other nation on earth. And the “waiting list” or “wish list” for people wanting to emigrate to another nation is much longer for the U.S. than any other nation. So … for what it’s worth… people voting with their feet, I’d say that despite it’s many problems and flaws… most people think this is a pretty good place to be. For which we can thank God for our blessings.
However, national identity is something that’s part of the human condition for identifying people… similar to race, gender, or religion… although we’re all one human family and all children of God.
There’s good and bad in the US, to be sure… without a doubt. Being patriotic is not to be “Love it or leave it!” or “My country… right or wrong!” This kind of thing is a caricature of patriotism or nationalism.
As for taxes… they’re the price we pay for a civilized society. Death and taxes as the saying goes…
One interesting point, though, is that the U.S. admits more immigrants (both legally and illegally) every year than any other nation on earth. And the “waiting list” or “wish list” for people wanting to emigrate to another nation is much longer for the U.S. than any other nation. So … for what it’s worth… people voting with their feet, I’d say that despite it’s many problems and flaws… most people think this is a pretty good place to be. For which we can thank God for our blessings.
po18guy
Well-known member
Well, the incredible influx of persons from Latin America has brought this all to a head. And, there is much confusion about the issue, again due in large part to the media. You are in the same category as the ancestors of most others who are posting here, since their parents, grandparents or great grandparents immigrated here at some point.
There is good reason to avoid citizenship in each nation that you or I could name. But, such a negative opinion does nothing to help that nation. There are even better reasons to make a choice and work to improve conditions in the country in which you live, for they are your nearest neighbors. And, so we pray that you will do what your well-formed conscience will tell you.
Christ’s peace.
H
Holly3278
Guest
I agree. I also think that the OP should consider the religious life. Also, becoming a citizen will give him the right to vote which would help this nation to become the nation that it should be instead of the nation that it shouldn’t be. We need more and more Christians to vote so as to overcome the left wing agenda that seeks to destroy our nation.Sorry, but not really. You live in this country, with all its benefits and freedoms but don’t want to become a citizen? And go somewhere where you don’t have to pay taxes?
You don’t have to become a flag-waving patriot to be a good citizen.
How about the religious life?
J
Just_wondering
Guest
OP, I don’t think you have any obligation to become a citizen, if it’s not what you feel called to do. You are living in the United States legally. You pay taxes. You are contributing to the country. If you feel no ties to the United States beyond that, and don’t feel that you’re missing out on anything (duties or privileges), I see no reason for you to change the status quo.
I say this as a (temporary) resident of a country that I’m not a citizen of. Korea has been good to me - I’ve paid my taxes, contributed to Korean society, donated to Korean charities, paid for and earned an education here, made good friends, and met the love of my life here. However, if the opportunity presented itself, I would not become a citizen. Korea is home, but that doesn’t make me need to be a citizen here.
My parents are both immigrants to Canada, and they chose to become citizens. They did this after they realized that there were no circumstances under which they’d want to return to their home country. In my father’s case, he didn’t feel that he had a home country since he only lived there for four years. Also, they became citizens because they had children in Canada, and they felt safer knowing that they held the same citizenship as their kids. However, of the four of us kids, three of us now live overseas. That tells me that the ties of citizenship didn’t run deep enough.
I think that before you commit yourself to becoming a citizen, if that’s what you decide to do, you should make sure that it’s what you really want. Right now, it sounds like you’re unconvinced. That’s fine. Wait a few years, think about what the concepts of America and citizenship mean to you, and see what the future brings. You might consider living abroad for a year or two, to figure out just how much you identify as American when you’re not surrounded by it. You may surprise yourself - those ties might be stronger than you think.
I say this as a (temporary) resident of a country that I’m not a citizen of. Korea has been good to me - I’ve paid my taxes, contributed to Korean society, donated to Korean charities, paid for and earned an education here, made good friends, and met the love of my life here. However, if the opportunity presented itself, I would not become a citizen. Korea is home, but that doesn’t make me need to be a citizen here.
My parents are both immigrants to Canada, and they chose to become citizens. They did this after they realized that there were no circumstances under which they’d want to return to their home country. In my father’s case, he didn’t feel that he had a home country since he only lived there for four years. Also, they became citizens because they had children in Canada, and they felt safer knowing that they held the same citizenship as their kids. However, of the four of us kids, three of us now live overseas. That tells me that the ties of citizenship didn’t run deep enough.
I think that before you commit yourself to becoming a citizen, if that’s what you decide to do, you should make sure that it’s what you really want. Right now, it sounds like you’re unconvinced. That’s fine. Wait a few years, think about what the concepts of America and citizenship mean to you, and see what the future brings. You might consider living abroad for a year or two, to figure out just how much you identify as American when you’re not surrounded by it. You may surprise yourself - those ties might be stronger than you think.
W
Wirraway
Guest
I don’t see how your choices suck. You can stay here and deal with life’s problems or you can go somewhere else and.deal with the same problems in a foreign setting, Where ever you go you’ll render ceasar his coin. I’ think you’ll also find that the bread is more bitter and the stairs steeper.Well, many European nations are pretty as accomodating to illegal aliens and there’s almost no restrictions in many of Island nations for the foreign born. I know it’s shocking but there are other people around the world who are as nice as Americans.
Anyway, I am well aware that my choices suck.
However, since you’re resolved to go, here’s a link with instructions for a Form I-407 “Abandonment of Lawful Permanent Resident Status”. it looks like you have to go abroad to surrender your LPR status.
london.usembassy.gov/dhs/uscis/abandon.html
I admire a man who takes action instead of merely carping about problems. So, when will you be leaving?
K
Kendy
Guest
Well, with constant migration, the world is definitely moving towards transnational identity, which I think is a good thing.
Kendy
K
Kendy
Guest
Well, I am not in the habit of making rash decisions. I do like the other poster’s suggestion about living abroad for a few years, which I have been wanting to do.
W
Wirraway
Guest
don’t bet on it. not here.
K
Kendy
Guest
Well, I beg to differ. With millions of people here (legal or illegal) and millions coming, I think it will. Plus, I grew up in Miami, which is so different because it has people from all over the world. Plus, It’s already happening in latin America and Europe.
Seriously, would it be such a bad things. Must we be so attached to these temporal and accidental identities?
R
RCM
Guest
Kendy: My first reaction when I read your question is that this question is very normal for any immigrant. My husband is first generation Mexican and he tells me about his struggle for identity. He says when he goes to Mexico he feels American and when he is here he feels Mexican. I think it has to do about being “the other.”
Having said that, I will say that there are perks to citizenship that are very practical. You are guaranteed rights and until you have your citizenship, as we have learned from Guantanamo, and from those who have been kidnapped and tortured by our Government, as a citizen you at least have access to the system, even if the system is delayed or denied at first. I plan on becoming an immigration attorney one day and I can tell you first hand from working with many immigrants from around the world, you are not safe until you get your citizenship in your hands. God forbid you run into a bad cop one day. Your green card can be taken from you at any minute. Your citizenship cannot. Keep that in mind, ESPECIALLY if you travel outside the country.
Having said that, I will say that there are perks to citizenship that are very practical. You are guaranteed rights and until you have your citizenship, as we have learned from Guantanamo, and from those who have been kidnapped and tortured by our Government, as a citizen you at least have access to the system, even if the system is delayed or denied at first. I plan on becoming an immigration attorney one day and I can tell you first hand from working with many immigrants from around the world, you are not safe until you get your citizenship in your hands. God forbid you run into a bad cop one day. Your green card can be taken from you at any minute. Your citizenship cannot. Keep that in mind, ESPECIALLY if you travel outside the country.
po18guy
Well-known member
Amen!
DW is from El Salvador. She describes herself as a woman without a country. However, she knew where her future lay. She was sworn in as a US citizen while she carried our unborn child. She has had no regrets, and many nations allow dual citizenship, so where is the worry? We need good, Christian-first citizens like Kendy.Christ’s peace.
V
Verisimilitude
Guest
The ability to vote in free elections has virtues worth fighting for and excercising.
"The real tragedy is our founders did not intend a separation of church and state, and never envisioned a rigidly secular public life for America. They simply wanted to prevent Congress from establishing a state religion as England had. The First Amendment says “Congress shall make no law…”
The founding ideology of America is maybe different today from the intent, but that is why we vote to hopefuly create a society that reflects our idealism as best we can.
I am curious as to why you are uncomfortable with it. Do you lock your home or have a fence around your yard? The same reasons you do are the same to a degree regarding national sovereignty.
A living wage and safe working conditions might be one reason to care. A strong manufacturing base is another. These are more humane than patriotic reasons or did I misunderstand the question?
That seems a contradiction if you don’t want a one world government but don’t see the benefit of national sovereignty. The one world government is on its way since many are feeling as you do.
More than you know sympathize and empathize with you. Others mentioned choosing a religious life which might resolve some of your issues, but if you do not choose such a path you will need to make a choice.
There are benefits to being an American citizen but also responsibilities. Too many want the benefits without the responsibility and that is where we have gotten into trouble imo. At the risk of some illogical violation of rules I will offer something for you to read that describes my hope to resolve my own dilemma in many of the same areas you ponder though for different reasons since I am a natural born citizen.
The Revolution: A Manifesto. I would think after reading this new book if you do not believe in the idealism it is trying to return to then you should not become a citizen, and for those that are a citizen who do not agree with it should renounce theirs.
A
Al_Masetti
Guest
Before you leave for Europe to live there for the rest of your life, consider the demographics and birth rates in Europe.
The Christian Europeans are having one child per couple. (Replacement rate is about 2.1 children per couple.)
The Muslim Europeans are having somewhere around six children per couple. The Muslim population of Europe is around 10% right now; however, the Muslim youthful population is around 45% right now. So in about five to ten years, Muslims will constitute a voting majority in Europe. And they will be legally able to impose Sharia.
Sooooo … if you are or intend to be a practicing Christian, you might have to accept Dhimmi-hood.
Or, convert to Islam.
Anyway, just something to consider.
The Christian Europeans are having one child per couple. (Replacement rate is about 2.1 children per couple.)
The Muslim Europeans are having somewhere around six children per couple. The Muslim population of Europe is around 10% right now; however, the Muslim youthful population is around 45% right now. So in about five to ten years, Muslims will constitute a voting majority in Europe. And they will be legally able to impose Sharia.
Sooooo … if you are or intend to be a practicing Christian, you might have to accept Dhimmi-hood.
Or, convert to Islam.
Anyway, just something to consider.
K
Kendy
Guest
Well, I think my house is different than the hundred of miles that makes up the United States, which contains areas that seem to have no connection with each other other cultural other than they fall under some power’s jurisdiction.
Of course, it makes sense to organize spehere of governance so that there is order. But I guess, I just hate it when people act like it’s something sacred. Like the recent court case, where the Mexican government claimed we violated a treaty and the Supreme Court rule that we don’t hvae to listen to Mexicans (ok, maybe that’s not exactly what they said.) But I guess, I just want to have a more cooperative approach to the rest of the world. After all, ultimately the world is the Lord’s
A living wage and safe working conditions might be one reason to care. A strong manufacturing base is another. These are more humane than patriotic reasons or did I misunderstand the question?
But a living wage for who? I am ok with Mexicans seeking a living wage wherever they find it as long as business owners have jobs to offer them. As dor a strong manufacturing base, I think we are all better off when manufacturer’s from all over the world compete. I don’t think we should shelter our business.
It’s humane, I think to want to see everyone in the world lifted up.
That seems a contradiction if you don’t want a one world government but don’t see the benefit of national sovereignty. The one world government is on its way since many are feeling as you do.
Well, I guess I do think that the United Nations has an important role to play Perhaps, we can conceive of a more democratic systems for it, but I hate when Americans act like they don’t have to listen to anybody. In a global world, there might need to be some things that are decided on a transnational level as long as those thing are limited.
K
Kendy
Guest
Well, there’s always Poland or the Phillipines
. Anyway, like I said early, I am not making any rash decisions.Kendy
C
consumedconvert
Guest
First of all, allow me to say that my admitted political philosophy is neither liberalism, conservatism, nor libertarianism, but “near-complete disillusionment.”
So from my admittedly biased point of view, you should work out what you feel would benefit you and your future family (if any) the most, whether financially, emotionally, or for security, and go for it. If that means declaring your citizenship in the state capital at Springfied, IL (where they no longer make socks) or taking up a sheep farm in the Scottish Hebrides, so be it. Just make sure you have a good parish within driving distance.
I feel not much patriotism these days, perhaps because I’ve realized that the greatest drawback to a democracy (or a republic) is how quickly it can degenerate into, as you say, tyrrany of the majority, or mob rule. That, and nothing ever gets done because of all the special interests (e.g., the promised tort reform, the promised education reform, the promised border security act [which concerns me primarily because of the potential for terrorist activity], etc., etc…). The world is falling down around our ears and we’re interviewing baseball players in congress. My state can ban smoking in every public building, including bars and prisons, on a single vote, yet could not pass a budget for nearly three months after the deadline had passed. Fan-tas-tic.
That being said, monarchies also have great potential to suck. Anyone know how to become a citizen of the Vatican? Now there’s an absolute monarchy I can deal with…
But I live here, in my city, and I love my neighbor (which is why I would prefer him to make socks, if he is in need of work, rather than a virtual slave owner in el-salvador having slaves make them in a sweatshop, as is sometimes the case). I love my home state of Illinois, but I love my local county more than that. My national identity as American ranks pretty far down my list. I am, thoroughly, not a nationalist.
I am grateful for this country. It is my mother, almost as much as central Illinois is my mother. But mamma gets it wrong sometimes, and I have to live with the shame of our vast cultural and democratic sins, the most criminal which is no doubt widespread and nationally protected infanticide-before-birth.
In short, perhaps you and I could move to Malta, where until only recently the Catholic Order of Knights still ruled, and where Catholic morality still counts for something within the wider society
Many, if not most, on this board would probably define themselves as Catholic first and American second. But I’m actually Catholic first, a town resident second, a county resident third, a state resident fourth, and an American fifth. In terms of chosen identity.
Do what you feel is best for you and your family–as you pointed out, you pay taxes, and there is no true moral issue here that I can see. Only, wherever you go, bring your faith with you. I would love my homeland to be overrun with Mexicans, if they only promise to bring the Faith of their youth with them.
So from my admittedly biased point of view, you should work out what you feel would benefit you and your future family (if any) the most, whether financially, emotionally, or for security, and go for it. If that means declaring your citizenship in the state capital at Springfied, IL (where they no longer make socks) or taking up a sheep farm in the Scottish Hebrides, so be it. Just make sure you have a good parish within driving distance.
I feel not much patriotism these days, perhaps because I’ve realized that the greatest drawback to a democracy (or a republic) is how quickly it can degenerate into, as you say, tyrrany of the majority, or mob rule. That, and nothing ever gets done because of all the special interests (e.g., the promised tort reform, the promised education reform, the promised border security act [which concerns me primarily because of the potential for terrorist activity], etc., etc…). The world is falling down around our ears and we’re interviewing baseball players in congress. My state can ban smoking in every public building, including bars and prisons, on a single vote, yet could not pass a budget for nearly three months after the deadline had passed. Fan-tas-tic.
That being said, monarchies also have great potential to suck. Anyone know how to become a citizen of the Vatican? Now there’s an absolute monarchy I can deal with…
But I live here, in my city, and I love my neighbor (which is why I would prefer him to make socks, if he is in need of work, rather than a virtual slave owner in el-salvador having slaves make them in a sweatshop, as is sometimes the case). I love my home state of Illinois, but I love my local county more than that. My national identity as American ranks pretty far down my list. I am, thoroughly, not a nationalist.
I am grateful for this country. It is my mother, almost as much as central Illinois is my mother. But mamma gets it wrong sometimes, and I have to live with the shame of our vast cultural and democratic sins, the most criminal which is no doubt widespread and nationally protected infanticide-before-birth.
In short, perhaps you and I could move to Malta, where until only recently the Catholic Order of Knights still ruled, and where Catholic morality still counts for something within the wider society
Many, if not most, on this board would probably define themselves as Catholic first and American second. But I’m actually Catholic first, a town resident second, a county resident third, a state resident fourth, and an American fifth. In terms of chosen identity.
Do what you feel is best for you and your family–as you pointed out, you pay taxes, and there is no true moral issue here that I can see. Only, wherever you go, bring your faith with you. I would love my homeland to be overrun with Mexicans, if they only promise to bring the Faith of their youth with them.
K
Kendy
Guest
You know, I was just wondering if I could be a citizen of Vatican city. Finally, someone who understands me.First of all, allow me to say that my admitted political philosophy is neither liberalism, conservatism, nor libertarianism, but “near-complete disillusionment.”
So from my admittedly biased point of view, you should work out what you feel would benefit you and your future family (if any) the most, whether financially, emotionally, or for security, and go for it. If that means declaring your citizenship in the state capital at Springfied, IL (where they no longer make socks) or taking up a sheep farm in the Scottish Hebrides, so be it. Just make sure you have a good parish within driving distance.
I feel not much patriotism these days, perhaps because I’ve realized that the greatest drawback to a democracy (or a republic) is how quickly it can degenerate into, as you say, tyrrany of the majority, or mob rule. That, and nothing ever gets done because of all the special interests (e.g., the promised tort reform, the promised education reform, the promised border security act [which concerns me primarily because of the potential for terrorist activity], etc., etc…). The world is falling down around our ears and we’re interviewing baseball players in congress. My state can ban smoking in every public building, including bars and prisons, on a single vote, yet could not pass a budget for nearly three months after the deadline had passed. Fan-tas-tic.
That being said, monarchies also have great potential to suck. Anyone know how to become a citizen of the Vatican? Now there’s an absolute monarchy I can deal with…
But I live here, in my city, and I love my neighbor (which is why I would prefer him to make socks, if he is in need of work, rather than a virtual slave owner in el-salvador having slaves make them in a sweatshop, as is sometimes the case). I love my home state of Illinois, but I love my local county more than that. My national identity as American ranks pretty far down my list. I am, thoroughly, not a nationalist.
I am grateful for this country. It is my mother, almost as much as central Illinois is my mother. But mamma gets it wrong sometimes, and I have to live with the shame of our vast cultural and democratic sins, the most criminal which is no doubt widespread and nationally protected infanticide-before-birth.
In short, perhaps you and I could move to Malta, where until only recently the Catholic Order of Knights still ruled, and where Catholic morality still counts for something within the wider society
Many, if not most, on this board would probably define themselves as Catholic first and American second. But I’m actually Catholic first, a town resident second, a county resident third, a state resident fourth, and an American fifth. In terms of chosen identity.
Do what you feel is best for you and your family–as you pointed out, you pay taxes, and there is no true moral issue here that I can see. Only, wherever you go, bring your faith with you. I would love my homeland to be overrun with Mexicans, if they only promise to bring the Faith of their youth with them.
Soooooo, are you single?
And male? - Status