United States the New Sodom & Gomorrah?

[ab75]

I think you are looking at this wrong. First of all I don’t think it is fair to say so and so was punished by God or someone else was rewarded by God because there are always good people that are struggling and bad people that are prospering.

Also, as for there being a lot of gay priests, it makes sense. Someone is a devout Catholic, they are gay, they know they can’t be with a man and still be in good standing with the church, they know they can’t have a family, so they turn to the priesthood where they are going to be celibate and their sexual orientation doesn’t really matter. They aren’t gay because they are priests, they are priests because they are gay.

I agree with you. My point is if you use the logic that is being used to expect punishment, this is a more logical place to go.

 

[John1]

Several times in previous posts, it has been mentioned that other countries are much worse than the US. I agree, but are we splitting hairs. When close to 50% of “Catholics” in the US vote for a President that openly supports abortion, why should it bother them that he also supports sodomy? If a man lights a cigarette in this country he is ostracized, but if a man is homosexual he is lauded. Some so-called “Patriots” stand up and wave the flag of freedom to justify vulgar immorality. Some use the legal system to defend organizations like NAMBLA and cry out that they have the right to engage in any deviant act they so desire, and at the same time vehemently denying anyones right to disagree. Most of, if not all, the countries on the planet have terrible things going on. Some much worse. I don’t know how God sees things, but I wonder if he maybe looking at all mankind and thinking that enough is enough. Maybe the whole world has become a “Sodom and Gomorrah”. Maybe what it says in 2 Peter is really going to happen one day, but not just to the US.

 

[utah_rose]

That’s EXACTLY what I thought!

I didn’t know that the USA had a month devoted to sodomy. If so, it wouldn’t surprise me if God would bring his wrath upon this nation.

But it does. Obama dedicated June to to Gay Month. How much proof do you need?

 

[nickybr38]

As I said, I think there is evidence certain countries are already being punished but we are too blinded to see it (my own, for example - as I said, in my region alone we’ve had a plague of caterpillars followed by a plague of beetles. One wiped out half of our trees, the other is working to wipe out the other half. Such a curious little thing to happen after the way we’ve misused our resources - we have a multitude of lumber mills here btw). I cannot speak for other countries, I don’t live there… but maybe someone else has seen these sort of things in their own country and just not recognized what it is.

I’m not saying certain individual humans are being punished because bad things happen (plenty of bad things happen in my life). I’m saying entire COUNTRIES are being punished…



It doesn’t really matter. If countries of this world are truly being punished and aren’t doing the will of God it will only get worse, at which point it will be more obvious. And if they aren’t it will get better, at which point we can say I’m just silly. Either way it’s an interesting thing to ponder.

 

[bingbang]

Several times in previous posts, it has been mentioned that other countries are much worse than the US. I agree, but are we splitting hairs. When close to 50% of “Catholics” in the US vote for a President that openly supports abortion, why should it bother them that he also supports sodomy? If a man lights a cigarette in this country he is ostracized, but if a man is homosexual he is lauded. Some so-called “Patriots” stand up and wave the flag of freedom to justify vulgar immorality. Some use the legal system to defend organizations like NAMBLA and cry out that they have the right to engage in any deviant act they so desire, and at the same time vehemently denying anyones right to disagree. Most of, if not all, the countries on the planet have terrible things going on. Some much worse. I don’t know how God sees things, but I wonder if he maybe looking at all mankind and thinking that enough is enough. Maybe the whole world has become a “Sodom and Gomorrah”. Maybe what it says in 2 Peter is really going to happen one day, but not just to the US.

It isn’t like this is anything new. Ever generation seems to have people that think the apocalypse is coming, that the world is coming to an end, that God is going to punish us all, etc. It is all BS to be honest. There were times when the world was horrible in the past and there are going to be times when the world is horrible in the future.

Anyway, there are a lot of things that people need to account for when it comes to voting for a president. Bush didn’t “support” abortion, but he did nothing to stop it. So what is the difference? Also, America is the only country in the world where moral issues such as abortion are also political issues. It is all BS because the people that oppose abortion don’t do anything but talk about how they don’t support it…they don’t look to outlaw it or ban it, so why does it matter what they say?

 

[bingbang]

But it does. Obama dedicated June to to Gay Month. How much proof do you need?

OK, first of all, June being “gay month” means absolutely nothing. I just went through the month of June and didn’t once see anything that made me thing it was “gay month.” To be honest gay people need support from the public. We don’t want more Matthew Shepherds…as in the guy that was brutally killed because he was gay. Catholics talk about how being gay is bad yet they refuse to look at their own sins. They condemn these homosexuals because their sin is more outward and don’t look at themselves. It isn’t your place to judge.

 

[bingbang]

It doesn’t really matter. If countries of this world are truly being punished and aren’t doing the will of God it will only get worse, at which point it will be more obvious. And if they aren’t it will get better, at which point we can say I’m just silly. Either way it’s an interesting thing to ponder.

I’m sorry it isn’t really an interesting thing to ponder. It is just ridiculous. Sometimes things are good, sometimes things are not as good, and it just goes in cycles. Was the great depression a punishment from God? Was every bad thing that happens a punishment from God? Where does it end? If I stub my toe is it because I did something bad?

 

[ab75]

I’m sorry it isn’t really an interesting thing to ponder. It is just ridiculous. Sometimes things are good, sometimes things are not as good, and it just goes in cycles. Was the great depression a punishment from God? Was every bad thing that happens a punishment from God? Where does it end? If I stub my toe is it because I did something bad?

This is my point as well. Certainly there are consequences to actions and choices ( but that is different than divine punishment and reward). I certainly won’t say God never punishes or rewards people, but it doesn’t seem theological, or logical to believe all negative things (natural cycles) are punishment, or that all positives or bountiful situations are rewards.

Was the fall of the roman empire a punishment for accepting Christianity?

The world has always been Sodom and Gomorrah. Jesus knew it.

 

[nickybr38]

I wouldn’t say stubbing a toe is a punishment, except for being unobservant… oh wait… maybe it is then???

So I guess all those stories of entire cities being punished in the Old Testament were just that… stories. Things that don’t ever happen and won’t ever happen again. Oh well, I guess God really does change then, and He isn’t the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Too bad.

 

[bingbang]

I wouldn’t say stubbing a toe is a punishment, except for being unobservant… oh wait… maybe it is then???

So I guess all those stories of entire cities being punished in the Old Testament were just that… stories. Things that don’t ever happen and won’t ever happen again. Oh well, I guess God really does change then, and He isn’t the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Too bad.

I do believe that the OT is just stories…God didn’t change, but people’s view of God changed.

 

[ab75]

I wouldn’t say stubbing a toe is a punishment, except for being unobservant… oh wait… maybe it is then???

So I guess all those stories of entire cities being punished in the Old Testament were just that… stories. Things that don’t ever happen and won’t ever happen again. Oh well, I guess God really does change then, and He isn’t the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Too bad.

Do you believe in a 6 day creation and young Earth?

I’m not suggesting God never punishes or rewards, Iam suggesting that there are many factors at play and much good and bad. Jesus seemed to challenge the common belief that good fortune was a reward and bad fortune was punishment.

 

[GerardMajella]

“…the seed of Sodom’s wickedness lay in its failure to abide by the principles that Abraham would inculcate in his offspring. The cruelties of Sodom have become part of the language as the epitome of selfishness, callousness, and depravity, but the root of their evil was greed. Sodom was a rich and fertile region and, as such, it was a magnet for people seeking to make their fortune, as it was for Lot. But the Sodomites wanted to maintain their own prosperity and not be encumbered by a flood of poor immigrants. The wealthy and well-connected Lots of the world were welcome in Sodom, because they would give more to the economy than they would take. To discourage undesirable newcomers, however, the Sodomites institutionalized state cruelty, so that it became a crime to feed a starving person or offer alms to a beggar. Even the sexual perversion for which Sodom is notorious was employed to keep visitors away. According to one opinion of the (Jewish) Sages, this cruelty stemmed from an attitude of “What is mine is mine and what is yours is yours (Avos 5:10),” or, in the popular idiom, “Neither a lender nor a borrower be.” Such selfishness descends to cruelty and perversion ---- and a metropolis that elevates such behavior to a legitimate way of life forfeits its right to exist.” (Stone Edition of the Chumash, p. 81).

I can see many, many parallels to our current American society in the above commentary: the mistreatment of the poor and downtrodden, the greed and avarice of our corporate elite, and the current illegal immigration debate. America, like Sodom, is a destination to foreigners because of its immense wealth and prosperity.

 

[nickybr38]

Do you believe in a 6 day creation and young Earth?

I’m not suggesting God never punishes or rewards, Iam suggesting that there are many factors at play and much good and bad. Jesus seemed to challenge the common belief that good fortune was a reward and bad fortune was punishment.

So… you’re saying that sometimes God punishes and rewards… except in relation to large countries that are acting in unification against God’s will?

So… if God isn’t punishing sinful countries, who/what is He punishing? When does this punishment take place? Only after death? That seems a bit odd… only punishing AFTER a child has reached ‘maturity’? And why wouldn’t He punish those countries which heap pain upon His children?

 

[ab75]

I can see many, many parallels to our current American society in the above commentary: the mistreatment of the poor and downtrodden, the greed and avarice of our corporate elite, and the current illegal immigration debate. America, like Sodom, is a destination to foreigners because of its immense wealth and prosperity.

I agree this concerns more than the homosexuality issue. I agree we need to be open on immigration. I also think we are among the most generous and compassionate country in the world. The greed however, will ultimately likely be our downfall.

 

[ab75]

So… you’re saying that sometimes God punishes and rewards… except in relation to large countries that are acting in unification against God’s will?

So… if God isn’t punishing sinful countries, who/what is He punishing? When does this punishment take place? Only after death? That seems a bit odd… only punishing AFTER a child has reached ‘maturity’? And why wouldn’t He punish those countries which heap pain upon His children?

I’m saying he has the power to, however in the day of Jesus, he fought against this line of thinking. He fought against thinking blessings were signs of approval from God, and that hardships were punishment for sin.

 

[MugenOne]

A priest once told me the reason God has not punished the United States is because of our generosity. We are first to give and to help at every disaster. Look at Europe, Asia, or other sheikdoms, they drag their feet to help others in need.

 

[ab75]

So… you’re saying that sometimes God punishes and rewards… except in relation to large countries that are acting in unification against God’s will?

So… if God isn’t punishing sinful countries, who/what is He punishing? When does this punishment take place? Only after death? That seems a bit odd… only punishing AFTER a child has reached ‘maturity’? And why wouldn’t He punish those countries which heap pain upon His children?

More often, I believe God simply allowing the consequences of our actions (individually or collectivelly) is “punishment”.

 

[nickybr38]

More often, I believe God simply allowing the consequences of our actions (individually or collectivelly) is “punishment”.

So very true.

 

[JackVk]

. It is all BS because the people that oppose abortion don’t do anything but talk about how they don’t support it…they don’t look to outlaw it or ban it, so why does it matter what they say?

Actually, we do seek to outlaw it. We protest outside of abortion clinics. We offer sidewalk counseling to women going to the clinic. We hand out small, plastic fetus dolls at pro-abortion feminist conventions (which they freaked out about).

What do you suggest? We can’t go around blowing up clinics or block the doors. We are doing everything to stop abortion legally.

 

[JackVk]

A priest once told me the reason God has not punished the United States is because of our generosity. We are first to give and to help at every disaster. Look at Europe, Asia, or other sheikdoms, they drag their feet to help others in need.

Yeah. I don’t remember hearing anything about British, French, or Chinese aid going to Haiti after the earthquake. US troops and Civilian Red Cross workers wre there in no time.