Universal approval of Latin Missal could be on the way

  • Thread starter Thread starter GloriaPatri4
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
arieh0310:
I don’t know if there truly is a prohibition against the ad orientem posture, but our pastor was told by the bishop, in no uncertain terms, that ad orientem would not be allowed in the NO mass. The only time our parish can celebrate mass ad orientem is when they do a Dominican Rite mass.
That is rather interesting, because the Vatican told Bishop Foley (of Birmingham, AL) that he could not prohibit it outright.

That’s why Bishop Foley could not prohibit it being said that way at Mother Angelica’s convent.

Bishop Foley could only prohibit the broadcast of an ad orientium Mass.
 
Forgive my ignorance but whats the difference between A Dominican Rite Mass and the old TLM??

Thats great news though. Better yet if Pope Benedict mandated that parishes could/should use the vernacular TM.
 
40.png
robins:
This probably isn’t the right place to ask but how do I put the smilies on the posts when I do them?
If your referring to the smiley’s that CAF provides just click on the one’s you want. If you are referring to the Smiley’s that you get off the internet, I can’t help you there. Someone in the Water Cooler should be able to help you. Do me a favor when you find out let me know how to do it too. Thanks
 
40.png
arch_angelorum:
Forgive my ignorance but whats the difference between A Dominican Rite Mass and the old TLM??
I have only been to one Dominican Rite Mass and I didn’t see a whole lot of difference from the TLM (though the mass was packed and I was all the way in the back of the church, so I didn’t get to see much).
 
I just absolutely wish someone could give me a prudent reason why this is such an important thing…without of course resorting to telling me that its a more sacred experience and making me feel small.
 
I just absolutely wish someone could give me a prudent reason why this is such an important thing…without of course resorting to telling me that its a more sacred experience and making me feel small.
it’s important because it points to a greater fidelity to vatican II and not the spirit of discontinuity which reaked havoc in the church. the tridentine mass can orientate the celebration of the normative mass so that it is harmonious with the traditions of the church.

personally, i wouldn’t bet that it’ll happen, though i have hope that it will some day.
 
oat soda:
it’s important because it points to a greater fidelity to vatican II and not the spirit of discontinuity which reaked havoc in the church. the tridentine mass can orientate the celebration of the normative mass so that it is harmonious with the traditions of the church.

personally, i wouldn’t bet that it’ll happen, though i have hope that it will some day.
The missal of Paul VI is in line with Vatican II…I don’t see how going back to a past time helps with that…you view it as havoc, I view it as the natural progression of our church
 
The missal of Paul VI is in line with Vatican II…I don’t see how going back to a past time helps with that…you view it as havoc, I view it as the natural progression of our church
not the way it is celebrated at most parishes. for example: no latin, no gregorian chant, no incense, removal of altar rails, ugly churches, removal of high altars, and the priest always facing the congregation. none of these things are called for in VII’s sacrosanctum concilium, which i will admit, is very open to interpretation.

what has devastated the church is the interpretation of VII B16 called the hermeneutics of discontinuity which saw itself as a break with the past as if to create a new church.

church’s were built differently to overly reflect the horizontal dimension of the mass, to the point that the community celebrates itself. can we say that the church that built gothic cathedrals in the high middle ages is the same which built our typical suburban parish? i don’t see continuity, but often discord and confusion.
 
oat soda:
not the way it is celebrated at most parishes. for example: no latin, no gregorian chant, no incense, removal of altar rails, ugly churches, removal of high altars, and the priest always facing the congregation. none of these things are called for in VII’s sacrosanctum concilium, which i will admit, is very open to interpretation.

what has devastated the church is the interpretation of VII B16 called the hermeneutics of discontinuity which saw itself as a break with the past as if to create a new church.

church’s were built differently to overly reflect the horizontal dimension of the mass, to the point that the community celebrates itself. can we say that the church that built gothic cathedrals in the high middle ages is the same which built our typical suburban parish? i don’t see continuity, but often discord and confusion.
Come on, we know the churches of the middle ages weren’t built that way because of some theological dimension of verticality…they were built that way because of construction limitations of the era…give me a break.

Was it discontinuity when we created the tridentine rite in the first place…because it looks a lot different from the early church…

I’m not sure that havoc has reigned as much as you all say. In fact, I’m certain it hasn’t. Hanging on to the past and longing for a more ‘sacred’ time isn’t going to bring the church any closer to a new springtime.
 
Was it discontinuity when we created the tridentine rite in the first place…because it looks a lot different from the early church…
i really don’t feel like arguing about the development of the mass, especially in term of how the early church celebrated it, as if it was somehow superior to that mass commonly celebrated in 1943; perhaps someone else will.

i base my views on what B16 has written about the liturgy, especially in *the spirit of the liturgy, *and offical vatican documents, and other books. but i could be wrong. i try to be as objective as possible.

this rumor of a univeral indult has been floating around for years. it has its basis in the fact that the council of trent recognized all rites that were older then i think 2 centuries and the statement in sacrosanctum concilium which says something to the effect that the church recognizes and holds all rites to be equal in dignity and that the church fosters and protects them in everyway.

lets hope this time the rumor has some merit to it.
 
40.png
frommi:
Come on, we know the churches of the middle ages weren’t built that way because of some theological dimension of verticality…they were built that way because of construction limitations of the era…give me a break.
Actually, new construction techniques (such as the flying buttress, ribbed vaulting and the pointed arch) were developed to allow the tall, open design of gothic cathedrals. The idea came first, and techniques were developed to allow the idea to be realized.
 
I am totally agree with this measure, the novus ordo is very good and is valid too, but the option to choose the rite is necessary. Choose
 
Could this be a leak regarding the curia meeting on Friday?

Keep your fingers crossed!
 
Laus Deo indeed!! Please God, let this be true!!

I went to my first Tridentine Mass in 40-45 years yesterday (April 2), and I cried all the way through mass. It was so very beautiful. I now know what they mean by “sublime”. There was no disrespectful talking, no silly music, no jokes from the pulpit. The tabernacle was in a place of honor - front and center. There were no “altar-servers” - there was altar boys. The statues were covered up for Lent. There was quiet respect and reverence, gregorian chant, genuflecting, and, best of all, I got to kneel at the altar rail and receive on the tongue!! I could hardly contain my joy! It’s a 65 mile drive for me, one way, but it was worth it.
 
40.png
batteddy:
But I mean that each parish can choose which it will celebrate exclusively (some might be allowed to offer both) and so the Tridentine Rite will be restored alongside the Novus Ordo as more than just a “museum piece” as it were.
The church I attended yesterday had a Latin low mass at 8:00, a NO at 9:30 and a Latin High mass at 11:00 (the one I attended) I don’t see why a parish couldn’t offer one of each, at least. Or, if there are a number of parishes within say, a 20 mile radius of each other (as in the area where I live), why couldn’t one or two of those offer the Latin Mass and many of us would be willing to drive. Of course, one would hope that each parish would offer one mass in Latin. Our bishop, to date, flat-out refuses any kind of Latin mass in the Diocese.
 
40.png
sneakers:
Laus Deo indeed!! Please God, let this be true!!

I went to my first Tridentine Mass in 40-45 years yesterday (April 2), and I cried all the way through mass. It was so very beautiful. I now know what they mean by “sublime”. There was no disrespectful talking, no silly music, no jokes from the pulpit. The tabernacle was in a place of honor - front and center. There were no “altar-servers” - there was altar boys. The statues were covered up for Lent. There was quiet respect and reverence, gregorian chant, genuflecting, and, best of all, I got to kneel at the altar rail and receive on the tongue!! I could hardly contain my joy! It’s a 65 mile drive for me, one way, but it was worth it.
I cried when I entered a church that celebrated the 1962 mass. It was a SSPX Church, put I realized why it so important for them to reconcile with Rome. THe tabernacle could not be ignored, and I felt like God was given the honor and respect that He deserves. At my Church (not sspx) the Tabernacle is off the side and I sometimes go all thru mass without looking at it. OUr priest tell jokes and one of them takls about his dog WAY too much…people think that it is ok to show up in a spaghetti strap tank top and jeans with dirty tennis shoes! I understand that not everyone has money to buy suits and stuff, but at least show up clean! People seem to lose sight of why we go to mass. But in that building, I felt like I didn’t want to leave…God was there and He was respected and loved. I can’t wait for this to all work out!!!
 
LE UDIENZE
03.04.2006

Il Santo Padre ha ricevuto questa mattina in Udienza:


Em.mo Card. Darío Castrillón Hoyos, Prefetto della Congregazione per il Clero.
 
40.png
frommi:
I just absolutely wish someone could give me a prudent reason why this is such an important thing…without of course resorting to telling me that its a more sacred experience and making me feel small.
I’ll give it a try.

It’s because the change to the vernacula is associated with:
  1. The loss of vocations and faith in the post-VII era
  2. Clown Masses, liturgical dancers, priestesses, abuses of all sorts
  3. loss of belief in the Real Presence
  4. the imposition upon the general faithful of dreck both in music and liturgy
    5)the wholesale destruction of church ornamentation and structures for a banal and sometimes seemingly neo-pagan, or at least calvanistic, “worship space”
    6)The elimination of old and well known hymns and music in favor of folk music, rock, jazz and other unsingable and awful music with words that are frequently sappy, platitudinous or heretical
    7)The general embarrassment of being Catholic that permeates the entire ethos of the post-VII reformers
  5. Nuns, priests and brothers who give every appearance of embarrassment with the Church - and then actually teach and preach that embarrassment
    9)Bishops who allow all manner of these things to go on, and on, and on.
    10)The loss of our heritage as Roman Rite Catholics that no other rite has endured.
Yes, it’s a longing for Catholicism. The VII reformers have so messed up the reform that to many it appears that the abuses can best be remedied only by a return to an older piety, sanctity - and that is embodied in the Latin Mass.

It’s because people who, like you, refuse to consider it and fight it at every turn, validate the potential cleansing effect of it.
 
40.png
frommi:
Come on, we know the churches of the middle ages weren’t built that way because of some theological dimension of verticality…they were built that way because of construction limitations of the era…give me a break…
You really need some basic history of architecture - the drive to ‘soar’ was definately driven by theology and engineering surely followed

.
Was it discontinuity when we created the tridentine rite in the first place…because it looks a lot different from the early church…
Did you know that the Roman Canon is the oldest canon in use? It’s funny that the orthodox have no problems with ancient forms of worship, but Catholics do - don’t you think. Sure the Tridentine form was codified in the 16th century - but was not in marked difference from what had taken place before - e.g., the Rite of Sarum was not so very different. Sure if you compare things with the 1st century - but that same argument applies to the NO.
Perhaps we should all not wash for Mass - no doubt in the very early church folks smelled at Mass - that would be authentic. There have been changes over time, but nothing as compressed and overwhelming as the Pauline changes - and you know that if you really know any liturgical history.
I’m not sure that havoc has reigned as much as you all say. In fact, I’m certain it hasn’t. Hanging on to the past and longing for a more ‘sacred’ time isn’t going to bring the church any closer to a new springtime.
How can you write such a patently false or, at best, misleading and disingenuous statement? Let’s see, Europe is de-Christianized almost totally. The secon largest religious group in the USA is former Catholics. People are screaming about liturgical abuse - and have been for years. Vocations have dropped through the floor. Pederasty and homosexuality have become synonymous with Catholicism - AND YOU SAY YOU"RE NOT SURE???

What on earth do you need to be sure???

Maybe the Tridentine Rite will not bring on spring - though many saw the post WWII era as a springtime for the Church - but the current situation continues with nothing but a drab winter of confusion, ugliness, simplemindedness, platitudes, apostasy, death and perversion. Pro-abortion Catholics - amazing. Bishops who don’t know child abuse is damaging - amazing. Nuns and priests who don’t believe at all - and continue in the religious life - amazing. Felt banners, folk music, there is no sin, cafeteria Catholicism…
 
40.png
frommi:
I’m not sure that havoc has reigned as much as you all say. In fact, I’m certain it hasn’t. Hanging on to the past and longing for a more ‘sacred’ time isn’t going to bring the church any closer to a new springtime.
When running full speed ahead toward the edge of a cliff, the only intelligent decision is to STOP. And the only intelligent direction to go in is BACKWARD.

The numbers speak for themselves.
We can only pray that our Pope Benedict can see how close we are to the edge.

Blessings,
Angel
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top