Universal background checks Dems' top priority

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Unstated (unsupported) premise: that the Supreme Court is the arbiter of what is or isn’t constitutional.
 
ChunkMonk said:
Unstated (unsupported) premise: that the Supreme Court is the arbiter of what is or isn’t constitutional.
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It’s an “unsupported premise” that the Supreme Court is the arbiter of what’s constitutional? If it isn’t, who is?
 
Of course it is. I have seen it supported before (I still disagreed), but not by you.

Ultimately it is the American people who are the arbiters. A kind of secular Sensus Fidelium of the American public.
 
So what exactly is a universal background check.
It seems like the tougher gun restrictions become, the more violent shootings we have.
 
ChunkMonk said:
It’s all leading up to a blanket ban.
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Right. Just like the 8 years of lies that “Obama’s going to take away your guns!!!”

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7_Sorrows said:
So what exactly is a universal background check.
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It means private sales, gifting, or any gun transfer would require a background check.

In practice it would trip up honest people, who would be punished, and criminals would continue as before.

It is also of little use unless paired with registration of all arms.
 
Obama allowed Mexican cartel members to buy guns in an effort to use the subsequent violence to justify border-based gun control.

Anyway, I said it was ‘leading’ to a ban.
 
Columbine didn’t happen until 1999.
Sure they have been getting tougher.
We have gun free zones.
 
Theo520 said:
But it’s failings will point to the next step, registration.
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Let’s talk about registration. As scary as it sounds to gun-worshippers, it is one way to enforce existing laws on illegal sales. If someone is caught in the commission of a crime, his gun could be traced to see if someone sold him the gun illegally. Then the one who sold him the gun could be held liable for the crime too. This would make people more careful with their legal guns, realizing that if they sell them to someone who could not pass a background check they will be in big trouble. As it is, as long you don’t get caught in the actual act of illegally selling a gun, there is a good chance you will get away with it.

In the face of this obvious law-enforcement benefit of some kind of registration, what do we have on the other side? We have a fear of the government turning despotic and using the registration system to confiscate all the guns so there would not be a public uprising. But is this a real fear? Let’s consider how it would go down.

Suppose the government began confiscating guns. It would have to take some time. Probably several years at least. Certainly more than a month. As soon as the first few guns are confiscated, the gun owners would tell everyone what happened to them. After the first 1000 guns are confiscated from legal gun owners (really a drop in the bucket compared to the 300,000,000 or so guns in the country) the outcry from the victims would be deafening. The remaining 299,999,000 guns would instantly be mobilized into a resistance army (or at least they could be) and whatever they could have done with 300,000,000 guns they could also do with 299,999,000.

But would the government need a registry to confiscate guns in the first place? Not really. If they really wanted to confiscate guns they could just start running through the population treating everyone as if they were in the registry, demanding their gun whether or not they have one. They don’t need a registry to do this. A registry does not make their job much easier because such a large fraction of the population owns guns.

Of course the government would not do either thing if they feared an armed uprising. And having a registry does not mitigate those fears. So whatever you think the government might do, having or not having a registry makes little difference.

Now let’s get real and consider higher-probability outcomes. A more reasonable fear a gun owner might have is the fear of some sort of abuse of the database short of confiscation. Is there anything we can do to minimize the chances of such abuse? Sure there is. We already have wiretapping by law enforcement, which is held in check by the need for a warrant. A gun registry could be implemented with the same type of safeguards. The data could be encrypted so that only a court order could unlock it for one specific gun at a time. The law could be written so that the only instance in which the registry could be accessed is if a specific gun is recovered during the commission of a crime. The registered owner could be held accountable.
 
No other right of American citizens is treated this way.

“We’ll make it so it can’t be abused!”

Never works out that way.
Sy_Noe said:
That sounded like a threat on someone’s life to me.
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Are you the type of person who is ‘literally shaking’ when you see ‘Don’t tread on me’ flags on cars?
 
I would think it is an unfair burden on the poor. Will this check cost money? If so it will hurt the poor the most. Will this check require going to some government office, filling out complex paperwork and waiting? If so this is an unfair burden as many people can’t drive and don’t have the IDs required to enter government buildings. All the things liberals normally complain about get thrown out the window when they want to ban guns.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
In the face of this obvious law-enforcement benefit of some kind of registration, what do we have on the other side? We have a fear of the government turning despotic and using the registration system to confiscate all the guns so there would not be a public uprising. But is this a real fear? Let’s consider how it would go down.
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Having to register is itself despotic. What if we had to register all of our books? Or all of our cell phones? The would clearly be despotic the same as registering guns is.
 
MidwestGuy said:
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LeafByNiggle:
Let’s talk about registration. As scary as it sounds to gun-worshippers
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Not even worth reading anything after.
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I use the term as a counter to the term “gun grabber” which you apparently don’t mind.
 
You already have to register cars, boats airplanes, even trailers. Registration per se is not despotic.
 
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LeafByNiggle said:
I use the term as a counter to the term “gun grabber” which you apparently don’t mind.
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I’m used to your attack the poster when you are called out on things. You are quite the master of trying to deflect.
 
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