That was nice of them. Where did the Norwegian government get the $43,000?When my mother needed a stent due to a clogged coronary artery while visiting me in California we got a bill for $43,000 for the procedure and one night in the hospital. The Norwegian Government picked it up.
Yes, that’s called a free market. It also drives costs down, quality up, and leads to innovation in medical procedures and medicines.To put private industry in charge of it introduces the profit motive into medicine.
Actually, it worked very well. It wasn’t until the government started to get involved that it went downhill.I have read all the arguments on the private health care side. They all are blind to the elephant in the room. We’ve tried private health care. It doesn’t work, and it doesn’t work because publicly held corporations have a fiduciary responsibility to maximize shareholder wealth.
Actually, private health care works better.Private health care does not work and cannot work, because it intermingles the corporation’s fiduciary responsibility to turn maximal profit with the Hippocratic Oath. It’s oil and water.
Assuming you can get it, sure, I have no problems saying that private health care works fine, but that’s assuming you can get it. I can’t. I can’t afford it on my own, and no private insurance companies will issue me a policy.Actually, private health care works better.
Anyone can get it.Assuming you can get it
You don’t need insurance. There are doctors who accept cash and their prices are very inexpensive because they don’t have all of the overhead that doctors who take insurance have.I can’t. I can’t afford it on my own, and no private insurance companies will issue me a policy.
…yeah but you’ve admitted that many people - those most likey to be reliant on charity - aren’t paying any tax in the U.S.Just as it is unjust for the government to use funds for charity that are, in justice, owed their employees’ just wages, it is also unjust for a government to tax its citizens in the name of a charity, when the very weight of those taxes causes so many to be dependant upon charity.
.
That’s right. Your point?…yeah but you’ve admitted that many people - those most likey to be reliant on charity - aren’t paying any tax in the U.S.
People like me? Who are these people? Can you introduce me to them? I hear I have a lot in common with them…And it’s not as though poeple like you…
Not that this is on topic, but to answer your question…And it’s not as though people like you would support a minimum wage or anything because of what is justly owed to employees.
You and I are on the same side of this debate, but Pathia is correct that not everyone in this country can qualify for insurance or government medical benefits.Anyone can get it.
That’s different. That isn’t what he said.You and I are on the same side of this debate, but Pathia is correct that not everyone in this country can qualify for insurance or government medical benefits.
**Let me tell you of the deplorable universal health care they have in Italy. My cousin needed an angioplasty and it took him over a year to qualify for it. After it was done, a few years later, he needed by-pass surgery, but because he was 65, they refused him. He died soon thereafter. They treat their older people like **, and give them only minimum healthcare. i told the family that they should have brought him over to the U.S. to have the procedure done.Um…no…not even close.
They were worried I had a BRAIN TUMOR and it took me over a month to get the MRI done. It also took me six months to get in with the specialist that saw me and ordered it.
This is in the united states.
Hey, it wasn’t a ‘swear’ swear, guys!!**Let me tell you of the deplorable universal health care they have in Italy. My cousin needed an angioplasty and it took him over a year to qualify for it. After it was done, a few years later, he needed by-pass surgery, but because he was 65, they refused him. He died soon thereafter. They treat their older people like **, and give them only minimum healthcare. i told the family that they should have brought him over to the U.S. to have the procedure done.
I have to see specialists that have 6month waiting periods, I am far past the point of needing the basic family practitioner. I am hospitalized about twice a year, I am currently filing for my third bankruptcy, my first chapter 7, and I am only just about going to turn 29 soon.Anyone can get it.
You don’t need insurance. There are doctors who accept cash and their prices are very inexpensive because they don’t have all of the overhead that doctors who take insurance have.
In addition, every one of the pharmaceutical companies has programs to get drugs to people without insurance. I used to manage a pharmacy and watched my pharmacist do this for at least one person a day.
Maybe so, but it was all in bold, which in some ways is worse! :banghead:Hey, it wasn’t a ‘swear’ swear, guys!!
The point was obvious, read your own post.That’s right. Your point?
The people dependent on charity (or UHC) aren’t likely to be paying much tax, so a tax cut for everyone isn’t going to suddenly enable them to afford insurance., when the very weight of those taxes causes so many to be dependant upon charity.
.
Libertarians.People like me? Who are these people? Can you introduce me to them? I hear I have a lot in common with them…
.
Yes but not in law. In other words in the free market environment where there is always an incentive to reduce costs, (in fact it’s seen as irresponsible to not keep your labour costs as low as possible) workers are supposed to just rely on their employers sense of justice and compassion for a liveable wage.I believe in the Just Wage, which is the same standard upheld by Catholic Social Teaching.
.
Still on this?
Maybe you simply don’t understand what a marketplace is because your own experience with healthcare is rooted in socialists systems that don’t want people to believe they have any control over their own lives.
Here’s the definition from the meriam webster dictionary:
MARKETPLACE
Main Entry: mar·ket·place
Pronunciation: \ˈmär-kət-ˌplās\
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
2: the world of trade or economic activity : the everyday world
I think what you’re TRYING to say is that some people, due to inadequate finances, are unable to participate in the marketplace of healthcare- but that doesn’t change the nature of the system as market. It simply means that not all people can participate in that market through their own efforts, and they need help from other people to either negotiate services on their behalf (I call this charity on the consumer side) or provide services at below market prices (and this is charity on the provider side).
In the marketplace of healthcare, healthcare providers are offering their set of goods and services in exchange for your goods or services- that is, you are trading them your money for their care. There may be intermediaries, such as insurance companies, who negotiate costs ahead of time, but in the end, one group is providing a service, the other group is paying for that service. That is a marketplace.
So I guess I’m just not able to understand your point of view about this whole “the healthcare is not a marketplace” nonsense.
Let me give you some examples:
*]I occasionally need to go see a dentist. I relocated to a new city several years ago, and needed to find a new one. I didn’t just knock on the door of the first dental office, though. I talked to friends about who they see, I call offices and ask about rates, hours, and services, I checked various websites to see if the dentists I was interested in had any marks on their public records…
*]When my wife became pregnant, she didn’t just pick the name of an OB at random out of the phonebook. She talked to friends and colleagues, called a couple offices with questions about their services and their approach to care. She made appointments with and met with 3 OB’s before deciding which one she wanted taking care of her while she was pregnant.
*]We did the same thing to find a pediatrician for my daughter when she was born. We talked to people, called offices, made appointments with a few, and chose the one we thought was best based on their rates, appointment availability, expertise, and other factors.
*]If any of these doctors fail to meet our needs at some point in the future, we will drop them and find a new doctor who is better suited for me, my wife, or my daugher.
*]On the other side of the medical marketplace, I can reference my two brothers who are both dentists, and work together in private practice. They advertise their business through the radio, television, billboards, fliers, and other mediums. They have discount plans, they offer coupons, they have partnerships with other professionals in the community to share referrals and cross markets.
*]I just had a minor surgery yesterday-it went just fine, thanks for asking. Before ever scheduling the procedure witht the surgeon I checked out the references on my anesthesiologists, I checked out the facility where I was going to be treated, and I called a couple of other facilities to compare rates, hours, policies, etc. I didn’t change any of these factors, but I would have if I was at all uncomfortable with any of them.
These are examples of how people operate as responsible consumers in the healthcare marketplace. It is simply what people do when they are being responsible about their care. I do the same thing when you go to buy a car, or a refridgerator, or shoes. If a healthcare provider is too expensive for my budget, is lacking in experience, has bad hours, or is hard to schedule appointments with, I move on to the next provider.
You will probably say that I am in a luxurious position that most people aren’t privy to. Or, you might say that if I was in an emergency that I wouldn’t pick and choose who is providing care to me.
OK, let’s take the first one- I am participating in that portion of the marketplace permitted by my insurance provider. I am limited to medical providers by my private insurance provider. But within that network, I can choose whatever doctor I want, and I do. That is an option available to anyone with private insurance-they may lock you into your choice of primary care provider once you make it, but you can still choose that doctor based on your own criteria- and if you don’t like them, you can drop them at your next enrollment period. Specialists are even more subject to this marketplace environment, as you can pick and drop them any time you want.
As to your second likely objection, you would be right that I may not be able to choose my on call doctor if I went to the hospital at 3am on a weekend. But I would be able to choose my hospital, and once the emergency was over I would certainly shop the market for the best specialist to meet my needs.
Except for two small problems.government social policy is the primary way of caring for people we don’t know.
The Government runs the highways, they do a good job.Except for two small problems.
The first is that the Constitution doesn’t give the government the authority to be in the charity business and, second, every time the government sticks it’s nose in, it’s a disaster.
Can you say “Great Society”?
Really? Ever been to Atlanta? Ever been to Delaware?The Government runs the highways, they do a good job.
That may be, but it’s also true.Comments such as ‘every time the government sticks it’s nose in, it’s a disaster.’ is nothing more than a snappy sound bite.
The government has no business doing either one.We can spend 25 billion to bail out corporations, but we can’t help sick people. That is sick
Speaking of snappy soundbites…We can spend 25 billion to bail out corporations, but we can’t help sick people. That is sick
and another thing…We can spend 25 billion to bail out corporations, but we can’t help sick people. That is sick