Universal health insurance

[vern_humphrey]

About three times a year is my average. I’ve had kidney stones and gall stones multiple times. Likely my gallbladder should come out, but I can’t really afford it as a ‘preventive’ measure.

I suggest if your physician thinks it should come out, that would hardly be “preventive.” A physician would think long and hard before advising removal of an organ that wasn’t absolutely necessary to remove.

Both my wife and daughter had their gall bladders out – both were "have to "cases.

Fosamax, the drug that keeps me from developing osteoporosis and a hunchback before I am 40 is quite expensive, there are generics now thankfully, but it’s still very expensive. There are no generics and no treatments that are cheap for this to be replaced with.

Not sure I understand what you mean – are there generics or not? Wal-Mart will sell generics for $4.00 a month.

I also require GnRH agonists, that are so specialized and expensive they can only be done by injection and cost several thousand dollars a pop without insurance. Again, there are no cheaper methods of treatment, this is my only option.

This quickly adds up to about 20,000 a year in ‘preventive’ care that I pay for out of my pocket.

Have you asked the Church for help? Surely your local parish will give you assistance.

 

[ribozyme]

I suggest if your physician thinks it should come out, that would hardly be “preventive.” A physician would think long and hard before advising removal of an organ that wasn’t absolutely necessary to remove.

Both my wife and daughter had their gall bladders out – both were "have to "cases.

Not sure I understand what you mean – are there generics or not? Wal-Mart will sell generics for $4.00 a month.

Have you asked the Church for help? Surely your local parish will give you assistance.

From my immediate memory Fosamax is not a generic. I think the patent is held by Merck.

 

[mark_a]

I assume you favor dissolving all Catholic schools then?

Huh?

 

[pathia]

Not sure I understand what you mean – are there generics or not? Wal-Mart will sell generics for $4.00 a month.

Have you asked the Church for help? Surely your local parish will give you assistance.

Walmart will only sell certain generics for 4 a month, and that plan is only in certain states.

I am not welcome at my church. The costs of my life are far beyond that of any church. Do you think they would casually give me the half a million dollars in medical debt I have? It simply wouldn’t make sense.

Until there is a government solution the only sensible thing is to declare bankruptcy over and over. Getting anyone else to pay for it out of the goodness of their heart is just throwing money away. I am too expensive to rely on charity.

 

[vern_humphrey]

From my immediate memory Fosamax is not a generic. I think the patent is held by Merck.

You can check with the USDA’s Office of Generic Drugs Electronic Orange Book
fda.gov/cder/ob/default.htm

Being run by the government, the website is overly complex. You have to search for the drug by name first, find the active ingredient (ALENDRONATE SODIUM) and then search for the active ingredient. for Alendronate Sodium, there are several generics produced by Barr and by Teva Pharmaceuticals. They go under the name “Alendronate Sodium.”

A recent study of placebos (inert “drugs” that work psychologically) may have some bearing here. Researchers found the more expensive the placebo was, the better it “worked.” It appears Americans are convinced that the more expensive drugs work better!!

 

[vern_humphrey]

Walmart will only sell certain generics for 4 a month, and that plan is only in certain states.

I am not welcome at my church. The costs of my life are far beyond that of any church. Do you think they would casually give me the half a million dollars in medical debt I have? It simply wouldn’t make sense.

Until there is a government solution the only sensible thing is to declare bankruptcy over and over. Getting anyone else to pay for it out of the goodness of their heart is just throwing money away. I am too expensive to rely on charity.

I can’t believe anyone would be unwelcome at a Catholic Church. If you have had a quarrel with the congregation, I would suggest your first step would be to resolve that quarrel and heal any bad feelings resulting from it.

 

[Julianna]

How often do 20-somethings get “so sick they can’t move?” Most people spend most of their health care dollars in the last six months of their lives.

She has allergies and got a full blown case of the flu, just like I did. She has been depressed…I think she still is and $150.00 for a prescription is not going to cut it for her.

What preventive health care do 20-somethings need? Things like Flu vaccines are cheap.

I will agree, not as much as I would at 50. I will tell you (and you can cover your eyes) she is on the Depo shot, but she gets that for free. I know, I know, save your weeping and wailing and knashing (sp) of teeth for another thread.

Makes sense – that’s what I do.
As someone pointed out…not all the drugs are on the $4.00 list.

1 Timothy, 5, 8.

Yes, you are correct, my siblings and I do what we can for our mother and dad when he was alive, but there are many seniors out there whose children are scattered all over the country or do not have children at all…this needs to be addressed.

 

[pathia]

A recent study of placebos (inert “drugs” that work psychologically) may have some bearing here. Researchers found the more expensive the placebo was, the better it “worked.” It appears Americans are convinced that the more expensive drugs work better!!

Inert drugs are not going to make my body maintain its bones correctly. It’s something that can be measured quite easily outside of my own ‘feelings’ of it working. If I were to stop fosamax, I would likely need a new hip by the time I’m 35, despite not being an athlete

I can’t believe anyone would be unwelcome at a Catholic Church. If you have had a quarrel with the congregation, I would suggest your first step would be to resolve that quarrel and heal any bad feelings resulting from it.

They are unnerved by me, and disparage me behind my back. I am not welcome, because I am unnatural, I am mocked. The clergy was welcoming and considerate, but the congregation itself was another matter entirely. I am misunderstood and mocked once my past leaks out about the rumor mill.

And again, even if I was welcome, any assistance would either not help me much, or bankrupt the church instead of me. There is no need to cause suffering for an entire parish just for one person. I will take my pains as they come, and simply keep filing for bankruptcy instead. The other other option is to just let myself die, which has crossed my mind many a time. It is a struggle just to get out of bed due to the pain at times.

 

[Prometheus1974]

Hi Homerun. As a Canadian, I’m going to have to assert that you’ve got lot of misconceptions regarding our health care system.

Third, countries such as Canada have established this policy, and it has been a failure. Canadians are always coming to hospitals in the USA.

No actually our policy has been phenomenally successful. Everyone gets treatment when they need it. No one is refused help at or conveyance to a hospital because they don’t have the right insurance or they can’t pay for the procedure. As for Canadians going to the US, it virtually never happens, except in situations where one has a lot of money, and the specific treatment or leading expert, (as often is the case) is at a clinic in the US. Look, no matter what system you have in place, the wealthy will always be able to pay through the nose for the best care, and thats fine by me. What I consider the great success of our system is that everybody receives an acceptable level of care.

Case in point, a year ago I ruptured 3 ligaments in my right knee (semi competitive soccer). I will be operated on this summer. It has taken a while for me to get treatment, but that, to me is perfectly acceptable considering I will be operated on by the same doctor who works on our professional hockey players. I will be playing soccer again competitively a year from now. Is this level of care available to the average Joe in the US?

First, the doctor-patient ratio would increase, and doctors would be seeing more patients and therefore not be able to treat each one as well.

Hasn’t been the case here - because the gov’t provides the health care, they ensure that enough docs are hired to take care of the population. In a private system docs go where the money is - in a public system they are sent where they are needed.

Second, people with terminal illnesses would not be able to get treated as quickly, due to a longer waiting list

.

People with terminal ilnesses get extremely rapid treatment. Non-essential treatments (like mine - I still function fine, just can’t play sports) wait longer - again, no biggie if I have to wait a little longer because someone’s heart is being transplanted.

Fourth, the status quo ensures treatment for every patient already. No doctor can reject a patient in a hospital for the lack of funding. Problem appears to be solved already.

So then its not a big deal that 70 million Americans have no health insurance? (can’t remember where I heard that #)

Fifth, the funds required for the government mandate this program would be through the roof, and thus money could not be spent elsewhere, on problems that truly do need funding (environment, protecting the troops, immigration problems, economic stimulus, etc.)

While it is true that tracking and forecasting the cost of health care is problematic, we don’t seem to have terrible difficulty taking care of the other things you mentioned that truly need funding… granted we don’t have as impressive a military but the rest is doing ok…

The counter-plan would be this: provide incentives for private industries to contribute to the American health care system. This way, doctors would not have such strict regulations, the advantages of the current system would be maintained, and the government would not be spending so much money.

I have to be honest with you, I have no desire whatsoever for US style health care. The Canadian system takes good care of me, thanks very much. I would be interested to know what advantages “the current system” has?

 

[Prometheus1974]

Correction,

its 43.3 million Americans w/o coverage, according to

cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/hinsure.htm

Sorry.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Yes, you are correct, my siblings and I do what we can for our mother and dad when he was alive, but there are many seniors out there whose children are scattered all over the country or do not have children at all…this needs to be addressed.

There is help for everyone – but why create a system based on abandoning one’s parents or relatives?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Correction,

its 43.3 million Americans w/o coverage, according to

cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/hinsure.htm

Sorry.

And many of those 43.3 million Americans don’t want coverage. They choose not to pay the premiums.

In fact, the State of Massachusetts now has a law that if you don’t have health insurance, you have to pay more taxes. Now, if people don’t have health insurance because they can’t afford it – how does raising their taxes help them?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Inert drugs are not going to make my body maintain its bones correctly. It’s something that can be measured quite easily outside of my own ‘feelings’ of it working. If I were to stop fosamax, I would likely need a new hip by the time I’m 35, despite not being an athlete

Nobody said you should take “inert” drugs. I showed there is a generic for Fossamax, and cited the study of placebos to illustrate the “mo’ cost, mo’ bettah” syndrome, which sometimes causes people to think the name brand drug is better than an identical generic.

They are unnerved by me, and disparage me behind my back. I am not welcome, because I am unnatural, I am mocked. The clergy was welcoming and considerate, but the congregation itself was another matter entirely. I am misunderstood and mocked once my past leaks out about the rumor mill.

Why not approach them again, openly and frankly? Explain your condition and needs, and get the pastor to help you.

And again, even if I was welcome, any assistance would either not help me much, or bankrupt the church instead of me. There is no need to cause suffering for an entire parish just for one person. I will take my pains as they come, and simply keep filing for bankruptcy instead. The other other option is to just let myself die, which has crossed my mind many a time. It is a struggle just to get out of bed due to the pain at times.

I sense you have a failure orientation here – try visualizing success. I would bet your parish** can** help you.

 

[pathia]

Nobody said you should take “inert” drugs. I showed there is a generic for Fossamax, and cited the study of placebos to illustrate the “mo’ cost, mo’ bettah” syndrome, which sometimes causes people to think the name brand drug is better than an identical generic.

Why not approach them again, openly and frankly? Explain your condition and needs, and get the pastor to help you.

I sense you have a failure orientation here – try visualizing success. I would bet your parish** can** help you.

My mother was a nurse when she was alive, I have no perception of name brand being better, I insist on generic, period. My point is, even fosamax GENERIC is expensive. Walmart does not sell it for $4 and there is no other alternative treatment drug, well there are but they are even more expensive and still on patent.

Do you know how difficult it is to explain the difference between intersex and transsexual? They simply don’t know the difference, nor do they care. I ‘used to be a man’ that’s all they care about, they don’t care about the details. They care that I am a living embodiment of sin and I am destroying god’s temple and various other statements.

As for a failure orientation, I won’t deny it, but when you were told that you would live to be 40 at most, it’s a little depressing, y’know?

 

[vern_humphrey]

My mother was a nurse when she was alive, I have no perception of name brand being better, I insist on generic, period. My point is, even fosamax GENERIC is expensive. Walmart does not sell it for $4 and there is no other alternative treatment drug, well there are but they are even more expensive and still on patent.

That’s where help from the Parish will come in. They can help direct, or can contact Wal-Mart and work something out for you.

Do you know how difficult it is to explain the difference between intersex and transsexual? They simply don’t know the difference, nor do they care. I ‘used to be a man’ that’s all they care about, they don’t care about the details. They care that I am a living embodiment of sin and I am destroying god’s temple and various other statements.

That’s what your pastor is for. Have a long talk with him, and let him carry the ball explaining to the parish.

As for a failure orientation, I won’t deny it, but when you were told that you would live to be 40 at most, it’s a little depressing, y’know?

Of course it’s depressing – but don’t blame other people for your own depression. Visualize success and work with them.

 

[Ted_in_Charlott]

Hello everyone,
Let’s tl a few minutes about our current system. First financially:

Illness and Medical Bills Cause Half of All Bankruptcies
2 Million Americans Financially Ruined Each Year
Harvard Study Finds 2200% Increase Since 1981
Most of Those Bankrupted by Illness Were Middle Class and Had Insurance…the total number of people directly affected by medical bankruptcies to more than two million annually.

hms.harvard.edu/news/releases/2_2Himmelstein.html

Bankruptcy causes businesses to raise prices in order to cover loses. Finance costs, etc., all cause higher prices at all levels of commerce. Eliminating bankruptcies due to medical costs would would add hundreds of billions back into the economy.

What is it worth to a person to not to have to file bankruptcy? What does it do to families? How can we allow this?

I don’t have anything to base this on, but hear me out for a minute. What if we could reduce abortions by doing it? How many poor frightened mothers have abortions because they don’t have insurance? I don’t know, but if we could give them hope they don’t have otherwise, wouldn’t that be a good thing?

Secondly, administration costs for insurance are about 20-25% of premiums (2 sources)

medicalnewstoday.com/articles/33443.php
content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/full/24/6/1629

Not to mention legal costs, sales and marketing costs, and bad debts not part of bankruptcy costs. What would a healthcare dollar cost if it was just for healthcare?

I will address the USA being the best healthcare provider later.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Here’s what I found on the Wal-Mart website:
walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=546834

WOMEN’S HEALTH $9
$9 30-DAY
$24 90-DAY

New ALENDRONATE SOD 35MG TAB 4
New ALENDRONATE SOD 70MG TAB 4

So you can get generic Fossamax for $9.00 a month, or $24.00 for a three-month supply.

 

[pathia]

Here’s what I found on the Wal-Mart website:
walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=546834

So you can get generic Fossamax for $9.00 a month, or $24.00 for a three-month supply.

Excellent, Fosamax was only a tiny fraction of my medical costs, but every bit DOES help. There is also the fact the closest walmart is 75miles away though, but hopefully they can ship it to me.

Leuprolide, that’s my biggest current expense, outside of constantly reoccurring kidney and gall stones, seizures and migraines, I’d be healthy!

I don’t intend to be snarky, but the fact of the matter is, fosamax simply isn’t even a drop in the bucket.

Part of the problem is I simply feel uncomfortable in a Catholic church, it causes anxiety attacks to the point that I faint in the pew. That’s more something for a pentecostal church, right? No amount of explaining by the pastor is going to make it feel like home anymore. I simply don’t belong there anymore, but it’s all I have left. Something of a catch 22 unfortunately.

 

[onetimeposter]

Vern, do you have all the answers? Will you acknowledge that perhaps there are problems with the USA style of health care…or are you such a patriotic American that you cannot even imagine that there may in fact be a problem…

To me, it sounds like no matter what problem someone presents, you fail to listen to reason and insist that there isn’t a problem.

That is what I’m reading.

Failure orientation??? Did you make that up?

I have followed this board closely, you seem to be the only one with his head in the sand.

So be it. If I had to guess, I would bet that you are an American with medical insurance.

I still cannot believe that you are suggesting that an uninsured American can have a funny looking mole ( one that falls outside of what is statistically considered problematic) have it referred to a dermatologist, biopsied, found to be cancerous melanoma, removed and receive yearly follow ups with a dermatologist for the rest of their lives.

You actually believe that??? Everyone around here is telling you that you are wrong, that that level of care in the USA for an uninsured American DOES NOT EXIST.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Excellent, Fosamax was only a tiny fraction of my medical costs, but every bit DOES help. There is also the fact the closest walmart is 75miles away though, but hopefully they can ship it to me.

Leuprolide, that’s my biggest current expense, outside of constantly reoccurring kidney and gall stones, seizures and migraines, I’d be healthy!

I don’t intend to be snarky, but the fact of the matter is, fosamax simply isn’t even a drop in the bucket.

I gave you two websites where you can search to find if any drug has a generic, and then determine if Wal-Mart carries it and sells it at low cost. It took me about a minute to find each of those websites and get the information – I could have done it faster, but I have dial-up.

Part of the problem is I simply feel uncomfortable in a Catholic church, it causes anxiety attacks to the point that I faint in the pew. That’s more something for a pentecostal church, right? No amount of explaining by the pastor is going to make it feel like home anymore. I simply don’t belong there anymore, but it’s all I have left. Something of a catch 22 unfortunately.

Then work to make it your home. Start with the pastor, and have him carry the ball for you.

If you were in my parish, we’d long ago have found the cheap drugs and located ways to help pay your medical expenses.