Unmarried Catholic school teacher has baby

[CreatioNova]

Thank you all. I’m an ‘‘older’’ father, and more and more every day I’m also beginning to realise what a fuddy duddy I am too

Since comming back to the church I also realise I’m unbelievably conservative

All your words have spoken as much to me as I am speaking to my daughter.

She’s just hitting her teens. I am sooooo scared for her - and I’m also struggling with losing my little baby

My youngest is not a wory yet as she spends all her waking hours in that wonderful cloud cookoo land her head occupies at that age

Bless you all.

 

[BLUEMOON74]

I certainly dont think she should be scorned, shamed, should have had an abortion, nor should she be forced to lose her job. Legislation here would mean the school would be brought to tribunal and sued for millions.

My initial shock was based on the fact that an unmarried catholic school teacher brought her baby into the classroom for all to google at, and on the surface of it my initial reaction was this flies in the face of what the girls are being thought about catholic morality.
What lessons sink in best with kids that age - a tedious lecture from the teaching staff or a real life example from the teacher??

The area I live in is not a majority catholic area. We moved so the girls could go to a catholic school. Most of my older daughters friends and just about all of my younger daughters friends come from broken homes, some with siblings from 2 or 3 different fathers. Noone bats an eyelid. It’s considered normal.

I dont want my kids growing up thinking its normal to have sex outside marriage, its normal for a woman to bring up kids on her own with no father present, its normal for 2 men or 2 women to marry and have kids, its normal for 3 brothers and sisters to all have different dads. Thats the role models that exist in my local community. Thats why I want my kids getting a good catholic foundation at school (along with us at home needless to say) and thats why it was such a kicker when my daughter was exposed to a teacher she knows and likes and looks up to, in a catholic school, proclaiming she is a single mum, heres the bonnie baby, and everything is just cool.

Thats what I struggled with.

But theres been some well considered opinions posted here, for which Im grateful.

We are dealing with the issue with my daughter at a level she can understand, and she will continue to learn and know about Gods love and forgiveness, the hardship by ultimate joy and peace of trying to follow his word, that we are all sinners and only God can know our hearts and judge us, and regardless what society or liberal catholic teachers say and do, there is such a thing as right and wrong.

Nice to hear back from you and completely understand your point of view. You have some good advice here from good people that have some solutions to this. The only Catch 22 with something like this, is while we do not want to be judgemental and so on, for me as a parent my fear would be that my daughter sees Miss X’s income and happy life, but doesnt see how it doesnt quite work out the same for Suzie Q down the road. The fact that Miss X came out that well in that situation and is in the good financial poistion, sad to say, is the very thing that poisons a young girls mind into thinking I will have that same life too if I make that mistake. It’s ok. Mom and Dad will take care of the bill for my baby etc etc. and help me get by.

Because my parents made it very clear to me that I would be on my own and basically a disgrace to the family is the very reason, I never went there. I wasnt perfect but that was not one of my problems growing up. It’s because I knew my parents were not fooling around when it came to something like that. Maybe thats harsh but thats the way they are, and for that reason, it scared me in the right direction.

Now we are in an even crazier world than I grew up in, in the 80’s and 90’s and it’s much more prevalent and accepted than it was when I was growing up; so yes, it will be very hard to shield her from seeing or hearing about this activity from others. (you would think she would not see this from her Catholic teacher…that is frustrating) I would just make my point clear to my daughter, have a chat with the teachers supervisor, and make sure she is associating with the right people growing up and it seems you are definitely doing that already. So good job. It’s nice to see more father’s taking a more active role in the upbringing of their children.

 

[YADA]

Without saying one way or the other what I would do in the above situation (too many variables), I’ll mention that the “it could be worse” argument is a fallacy. Yes, if she had had an abortion, nobody would know. This doesn’t excuse a more overt sin.

Excuse me but what is the more overt sin of which you speak? Is the overt sin actually having the baby?

What I think you do not get is that the sin was in engaging in pre-marital sex - if that is indeed what this teacher did [and the child is not the result of a rape encounter - which of course is a possibility] … it is not sinful to bring that child [once concieved] to birth …

One can have an opinion about whether she should place the child for adoption or raise the child herself … but the only sin occurred months before what I am sure is a very “cute” child … the circumsances surrounding the conception and birth of this child in no way diminish the humanity, worthiness or beauty of the child …

Once the child is concieved this mother had to make a hard decision … abortion or life … she decided upon life and that is the moral decision, it is not sinful and is laudable …

That said, yes, this causes problems for parents … how about haveing a decussion with your “impressionable” daughter … making your voice heard …

This is a teaching moment for you … you cn discuss Christian sexual morality … you can discuss how each child has a right to be born into a loving committed two parent household … how our selfish actions which we believe affect no one else can end up have serious consequences for people we don’t ecpect the child, the grandparents, the employer, the teacher’s students and yes this single mother …

You can discuss how her decision to choose life was courageous, how this teacher had to confront her actions, seek reconcilliation and face the repercussions.

You might discuss how adoption may have been a better option … how difficult the future will be for this mother and her child and how charitable it is to provide love and care for them …

 

[GraceDK]

Because my parents made it very clear to me that I would be on my own and basically a disgrace to the family is the very reason, I never went there. I wasnt perfect but that was not one of my problems growing up. It’s because I knew my parents were not fooling around when it came to something like that. Maybe thats harsh but thats the way they are, and for that reason, it scared me in the right direction.
:

dear me… if thats the reason not to do something thats bad in so many ways for a young woman… I think thats poor parental advice: “mess up and we wont be there for you”.
The thought of getting pregnant out of marriage is really repulsive and no wish of any teenager. Dont kid your self… Parents dont need to look hard and unforgiving to get that message into a young woman or man.
Advocating such lousy approach have never solved the deeper issues.

 

[Awful_Things]

Excuse me but what is the more overt sin of which you speak? Is the overt sin actually having the baby? .

Nope, the more overt sin is premarital sex, which was made overt by the evidence of the pregnancy. I was stating that the fact that she could have “covered it up” with abortion doesn’t excuse the action. I don’t think anyone is criticizing her for having a child. The question is whether her having sex is a violation of the morality clause she most likely signed (as teachers do in our diocese). I haven’t stated an opinion on the matter - just stating that the mere fact that she could have had an abortion doesn’t excuse the examination of whether there is a consequence for her earlier actions.

Your post assumes that I was referring to the birth of the child, but I wish you would have just asked instead of jumping all over me as you did.

 

[KCT]

What do you think Jesus would do? Throw her out? Stone her?

No, but I’m not sure he’d leave her in an influential position.

 

[JReducation]

Having worked for several dioceses I know the morality clause quite well. There is nothing in any morality clause that says that Church employees will not sin. It has to do with supporting positions that are in conflict with Church teaching. Pesonal sin and promoting such things as abortion, birth control, same sex marriage, marriage-divorce-remarriage outusde the Church are very different. Even divorce is accepted under the morality clause. It’s the remarriage that is rejected if it is a cause for scandal.

I also have to chuckle when some people speak about the teacher’s financial circumstances. Does everyone here realize that the Catholic Church in the USA is one of the lowest paying employers in the country? Most people who work in Catholic education do it out of love for the children or because they have a spouse that brings home good money and the Catholic school is a good place to work as opposed to a big public school.

Finally, my suggestion to any parent who is finding this situation in their child’s school and wants to know how to face it is to ask a well educated Catholic on these matters.

Two sources are the Sisters of Life and Priests for Life. The Sisters of Life were actually founded to teach Catholics how to deal with these matters.

Here is the website for the Sisters of Life and here is the address and telephone number for the Human Life Issues Centre.

Sisters of Life
Human Life Issues Library and Resource Center
1955 Needham Avenue
Bronx, New York 10466
(718) 881-7286 Tel
(718) 881-7287 Fax
sistersoflife.org/contactus.htm

Gospel of Life / Priests for Life
PO Box 141172 • Staten Island, NY 10314
Tel. 888-735-3448, (718) 980-4400 • Fax 718-980-6515
mail@priestsforlife.org

I’m sure that they will have the right words to say to any child in this situation. I would start with the Sisters of Life, they are better trained in this ministry. The Priests for Life ministry is limited to abortion related issues.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[JReducation]

No, but I’m not sure he’d leave her in an influential position.

Lets’ See:

Peter denied him three times – Pope

Paul kills our first deacon - Bishop and Apostle to the Gentiles

Augustine unmarried father - Bishop and Dr. of the Church

Br. Jim Townsend, OFM Cap, murdered wife - Capuchin-Franciscan Friar

Br. Alessandro Serenelli, OFM Cap. murdered Maria Goretti - Capuchin-Franciscan Friar

I don’t know. With murderers and single fathers (a few heretics in the mix) being in active ministry in the Church from Peter to today, it’s hard to second-guess what Jesus would do.

JR

 

[BLUEMOON74]

dear me… if thats the reason not to do something thats bad in so many ways for a young woman… I think thats poor parental advice: “mess up and we wont be there for you”.
The thought of getting pregnant out of marriage is really repulsive and no wish of any teenager. Dont kid your self… Parents dont need to look hard and unforgiving to get that message into a young woman or man.
Advocating such lousy approach have never solved the deeper issues.

Yeah, guess you will have to take it up with my parents. Thats just the way they are. I didnt say I thought it was right, I said that is what they told me and that scared me in the right direction. My mother is a second grade school teacher and taught at a Catholic school for years, and yes, she is pretty mean and tough. My dad not so stern but that was one thing they were adamant with me about. So therefore, I did not go there bc I knew they would let me live in Section 8 housing and struggle all my life with a child I could not afford if I did that. To them that was the consequence for that action. They told me if I thought I was grown enough to get pregnant like that than I was grown enough to support the baby, and dont come boohooing to them for support. My mother only made 18K a year in 91’ teaching at a Catholic school but she did it anyway, bc she is a good person but she is a meany too, and she means business. I have some friends whose parents had a more lenient approach although they taught their daughters not to do that. One taught at a Catholic school for 40 years. Now her daughter has an 8 year old out of wedlock with a bum, she barley made it through college, and her parents and the friend have filed bankruptcy twice over, same thing for a few other friends too. The ones whose parents held firm, their daughters did not make that mistake and they live better quality lives for it.
This father will do what is best for his daughter. I am not advocating he be as mean and stern as my mother, I only told him how it went for me, and thats pretty clear there in my post. I think with my own children, I would have a more open relationship with my child, than my parents did with me. A lot of parents were like that then, it was a different generation. No meant no and there was no questioning it, no open forum, or discussion. My parents were also do as I say and as I do. They did lead by example. They may not be up to your standards of softness, but they did a lot better job than a lot of parents.

 

[Awful_Things]

Having worked for several dioceses I know the morality clause quite well. There is nothing in any morality clause that says that Church employees will not sin.

I never said there was. As I have consistently stated, I don’t know the variables, so I can’t make a judgment. While a single sin won’t often violate the clause, persistence in sin would. If, as the administrator, I saw strong indication that she wasn’t repentant, then her persistence in sin would be good cause.

Please don’t put words in my mouth.

 

[BLUEMOON74]

Having worked for several dioceses I know the morality clause quite well. There is nothing in any morality clause that says that Church employees will not sin. It has to do with supporting positions that are in conflict with Church teaching. Pesonal sin and promoting such things as abortion, birth control, same sex marriage, marriage-divorce-remarriage outusde the Church are very different. Even divorce is accepted under the morality clause. It’s the remarriage that is rejected if it is a cause for scandal.

I also have to chuckle when some people speak about the teacher’s financial circumstances. Does everyone here realize that the Catholic Church in the USA is one of the lowest paying employers in the country? Most people who work in Catholic education do it out of love for the children or because they have a spouse that brings home good money and the Catholic school is a good place to work as opposed to a big public school.

Finally, my suggestion to any parent who is finding this situation in their child’s school and wants to know how to face it is to ask a well educated Catholic on these matters.

Two sources are the Sisters of Life and Priests for Life. The Sisters of Life were actually founded to teach Catholics how to deal with these matters.

Here is the website for the Sisters of Life and here is the address and telephone number for the Human Life Issues Centre.

Sisters of Life
Human Life Issues Library and Resource Center
1955 Needham Avenue
Bronx, New York 10466
(718) 881-7286 Tel
(718) 881-7287 Fax
sistersoflife.org/contactus.htm

Gospel of Life / Priests for Life
PO Box 141172 • Staten Island, NY 10314
Tel. 888-735-3448, (718) 980-4400 • Fax 718-980-6515
mail@priestsforlife.org

I’m sure that they will have the right words to say to any child in this situation. I would start with the Sisters of Life, they are better trained in this ministry. The Priests for Life ministry is limited to abortion related issues.

Fraternally,

JR

Dear Creatio Dad,

I think this guy gave you some very good advice and resources here. I would check into it and probably PM one of the Apologetics too and see what they have to say. Good Luck with it, God is on your side.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Indeed so Swan, but as the father of a very impressionable child who attends the school, I cant help wondering if, when confronted with issues about sex outside mariage and pregnancy, she will hold up Miss X as an example of how its just fine, since Miss X is well educated, earns good money, has a good lifestyle, has a respected job in the commnity, and look, she had sex outside marriage, got pregnant, had a baby, and everyone just thought how cute !!! As a father I cant help wondering and worrying about these things.

I would never condemn or judge the teacher. She is popular and well respected by all in the school.

I just cant help but wonder what sort of mixed message this is sending to the girls in the school. They are taught sex outside of marriage is wrong, sex is a gift from God, procreation should happen within the loving context of a married couple, and then they see Miss X present her baby to the whole school, flying in the face of everything thy are being thought.

Perhaps the school should have told her she cannot bring the baby in… I dont know … Im struggling with this …

We can love the sinner and still hate the sin. I would expect the teachers to be held to a higher standard then the general public as they are teaching our vulnerable children.

Has this teacher shown any remorse for having had sex outside of Holy Marriage? Because it seems to me she is showing off the child and some might take that to mean that this is a normal and good thing.

 

[JReducation]

We can love the sinner and still hate the sin. I would expect the teachers to be held to a higher standard then the general public as they are teaching our vulnerable children.

Has this teacher shown any remorse for having had sex outside of Holy Marriage? Because it seems to me she is showing off the child and some might take that to mean that this is a normal and good thing.

I respectfully disagree, if I’m correctly understanding. The only person that the teacher should show remorse to is God and that’s what the Sacrament of Penance is for. I would hope that she is not ashamed of showing her child.

We don’t want people having children outside of marriage, but we don’t want them aborting either. I would hate to make the child part of the equation when it comes to reconciling oneself with God.

JR

 

[Jeanette_L]

I respectfully disagree, if I’m correctly understanding. The only person that the teacher should show remorse to is God and that’s what the Sacrament of Penance is for. I would hope that she is not ashamed of showing her child.

We don’t want people having children outside of marriage, but we don’t want them aborting either. I would hate to make the child part of the equation when it comes to reconciling oneself with God.

JR

You beat me to it.

The thought that somehow shame should be transferred to an innocent child because of the poor choice of a parent just smacks of both unforgiveness and cruelty to the most innocent among us.

Let me ask this question (which has been asked but I can’t help it, it begs to be asked again): how do we convince women that abortion is NOT the best choice? By teaching them that the children they CHOOSE to give life to will be spurned by us? Of all places on this God given green earth these women should be able to find charity and healing, it should be among us!!!

Please give some very serious thought to what it is we are saying as we pass judgment on women who make bad choices and then make better ones, like choosing life.

As JR has mentioned, remorse, repentence is between the sinner and the confessor and God. I’m not sure what it is that this woman is supposed to do to make recompense to the rest of us. Maybe the Scarlet Letter should be sewn onto her clothing to remind her and the rest of us of her sin? Would that make us feel better, really? Because although we may say, “oh don’t be ridiculous”, in reality, to suggest punishment or to *cast out *is the same thing.

God help us have hearts not made of stone.

 

[KathleenElsie]

I respectfully disagree, if I’m correctly understanding. The only person that the teacher should show remorse to is God and that’s what the Sacrament of Penance is for. I would hope that she is not ashamed of showing her child.

We don’t want people having children outside of marriage, but we don’t want them aborting either. I would hate to make the child part of the equation when it comes to reconciling oneself with God.

JR

No where did I say she should be ashamed of her child. But, no where would I say she should brag about the fact that she had a child out of wedlock. There is a fine line between knowing that she did something wrong in the first place and maybe making the young students think it is something to be desired. She did the right and moral thing in having the baby and I pray she has reconciled with God.

What words would you use to tell students about this situation? Can words explain the sin of the situation and not place sin wrongly on the child?

I am the child of a mother and no father. I can tell you there will be times every year of the child life that the issue can and will come up. I’m 61 years old and when my granddaughter asked me who my daddy was I had no answer for her. Truth sometimes hurts.

 

[vern55]

My children went to a catholic school that had a similar situation. and from my understanding the priest was very assertive about her getting married. im sure he explained it to her and made it very clear her responsibility in the situation and she and her boyfriend did get married before the birth. now i dont know if the father is involved in your situation. we as parents were concerned but never judged her. and she did in the end do the right thing. sometimes though as is true we all make mistakes and yes there should be some guidelines that a catholic school teacher needs to follow but again we are all in our walk with the Lord at different levels and stages. i was born and raised a catholic and i am still learning about my faith. Ignorance is no excuse but she may just need more guidance from others. pray for her. God has sent many to guide me, maybe your concern about the situation and how it will effect the children can also grow into prayer and guidance for her. Remember she may be catholic but that does not mean that she knows the whole truth. God Bless

 

[JReducation]

Two things here.

1. It is very dangerous to insist that a couple get married because they are going to have a child. The Church’s law is very clear on this. For a marriage to be valid it must be entered into freely, without coercion. I trust the priest who insisted that the particular teacher mentioned above knew the couple well enough to know that they wanted to get married.
2. As to the single mother who teaches at the school. She is not showing pride in her sin. She’s proud of her child. Anyone who has been a parent knows the excitement and the joy of having a newborn and wanting to show him or her off to everyone.

As to the sin, that’s between the individual and their confessor. It’s not for public discussion. This is part of that sacred silence that the Church provides with the Sacrament of Reconciliation. We don’t even have a right to know if the person went to confession and received absolution.

It seems that we are taking this too far, further than we have a right to do so. No one has the right to enter into the mystery of sin, conscience and reconciliation.

The sin has been committed. End of story. Should it have happened? No. Did it happen? Yes. Should we make it a matter of public debate? No. This is a private affair between the individual and their confessor.

If the parents at the school have a problem, that is for them to deal with the principal of the school. They have no business even talking to the teacher about it. That is contrary to Christian charity.

As to what to say to children, tell them the truth. People are human. They make mistakes. But, just because they make mistakes doesn’t make them bad people. Love them and don’t immitate their mistakes, but immitate their good choices. Children are not dumb. This is a simple explanation that they understand.

Which child in that school has perfect parents?

JR

 

[Jeanette_L]

Maybe I was too harsh when I posted above, but to be honest, I was really angry when I wrote it. You see, it makes me angry when people speak and act as though it is actually possible that a child is not a great blessing, regardless of the circumstances. This notion is contrary to the very spirit and truth of the sacredness of human life.

And when otherwise good people, good Christians, good Catholics don’t think about what it is they are actually saying when they speak as though we should somehow make this particular circumstance more of a horror than any other circumstance that is a result of bad choices, of sin, then we have a serious problem.

Because the poison from this thought affects more than just the one person who sinned, but the very innocent person who came into this world as a result. And this same condemnation, more than likely will follow that very innocent person around for the rest of their life. To do this to an innocent person is unacceptable, under any circumstance. It is just unacceptable.

We need to get past the notion that this is the worst thing that could possibly happen in this world. The lifetime of pain it causes is avoidable.

 

[YADA]

No where did I say she should be ashamed of her child. But, no where would I say she should brag about the fact that she had a child out of wedlock. There is a fine line between knowing that she did something wrong in the first place and maybe making the young students think it is something to be desired. She did the right and moral thing in having the baby and I pray she has reconciled with God.

And this teacher brought her child to the school and said …

“Hey look at what a great child I had OUT OF WEDLOCK”

or she said …

“All of you should desire to have a child out of wedlock”

Seriosuly…

And for how long would we have this teacher wear the Scarlet Letter? … the sin of the pre-marital sex was 9.5 months before the birth of the child … is she never to be allowed to put the sin behind her? Forever destined to not mention the child to sensitve students? …

Are all of these students totally aware of her marital status or lack there of? She must have been obviously expecting … and in need of time off after the birth … wouldn’t seem weird to children that the teacher never mentioned or brought the child to the school … what message would that send?

 

[moosears]

Two things here.

1. It is very dangerous to insist that a couple get married because they are going to have a child. The Church’s law is very clear on this. For a marriage to be valid it must be entered into freely, without coercion. I trust the priest who insisted that the particular teacher mentioned above knew the couple well enough to know that they wanted to get married.
2. As to the single mother who teaches at the school. She is not showing pride in her sin. She’s proud of her child. Anyone who has been a parent knows the excitement and the joy of having a newborn and wanting to show him or her off to everyone.

As to the sin, that’s between the individual and their confessor. It’s not for public discussion. This is part of that sacred silence that the Church provides with the Sacrament of Reconciliation. We don’t even have a right to know if the person went to confession and received absolution.

It seems that we are taking this too far, further than we have a right to do so. No one has the right to enter into the mystery of sin, conscience and reconciliation.

The sin has been committed. End of story. Should it have happened? No. Did it happen? Yes. Should we make it a matter of public debate? No. This is a private affair between the individual and their confessor.

If the parents at the school have a problem, that is for them to deal with the principal of the school. They have no business even talking to the teacher about it. That is contrary to Christian charity.

As to what to say to children, tell them the truth. People are human. They make mistakes. But, just because they make mistakes doesn’t make them bad people. Love them and don’t immitate their mistakes, but immitate their good choices. Children are not dumb. This is a simple explanation that they understand.

Which child in that school has perfect parents?

JR

Amen Brother! This woman was courageous in exposing her bad example but but by bringing the child to the classroom she demonstrates that under no circumstances is abortion an option. No doubt stones will be cast at her for this even though she did not let her mistake derail her morals altogether. This is a good example for kids. When you make a mistake, face the consequences and stay on the moral path regardless. Life is precious no matter how you look at it.