Unsupportive Father: How Much Blessing is Needed?

[SilverShadow22]

I’ve never started a thread and I just want to talk about this.

My father has never been particularly supportive of anything I want to do. I still live at home due to certain circumstances but I do have my own part time job, but I get there without my own car… I pay my own phone and buy all my own ‘extras’ and I’m the house’s sole Internet source and I also do homesteading work in lieu of paying for room and board, and so on. So on paper it’s a good arrangement.

The problem is that my father is contradictory. He wants me to make more money, pay him rent, etc… And yet didn’t want me to get my license. He tells me to be an adult and take care of myself… And stands on my way. Tells me I need to meet someone and go get married… But I shouldn’t even consider a Catholic dating site.

And then I DID meet someone on the site… He drove a long way to come see me… Was a perfect gentleman…

And my father doesn’t like him. Viscerally and irrationally. To the point of saying it’s ‘unhealthy’ that we talking on the phone daily.

This makes me very sad. I didn’t want to have to defy my father. I did want my father’s blessing on whatever relationship I pursue. But he’s put me in the position of, if not hiding things from my father, then at least seeking every opportunity to avoid telling him details.

My father is so over the top that he’s in danger of discrediting his GOOD advice.

I’m not asking for specific advice, like whether I should or shouldn’t date him - because I’m going to anyway - but just looking for some POVs and anecdotes, maybe a discussion of just how important a paternal blessing is to a marriage/relationship…

My mother is supportive and sympathetic and helpful and not enabling… I just wish I could count on my father that way, as well.

 

[LethalMouse]

I’ve never started a thread and I just want to talk about this.

My father has never been particularly supportive of anything I want to do. I still live at home due to certain circumstances but I do have my own part time job, but I get there without my own car… I pay my own phone and buy all my own ‘extras’ and I’m the house’s sole Internet source and I also do homesteading work in lieu of paying for room and board, and so on. So on paper it’s a good arrangement.

The problem is that my father is contradictory. He wants me to make more money, pay him rent, etc… And yet didn’t want me to get my license. He tells me to be an adult and take care of myself… And stands on my way. Tells me I need to meet someone and go get married… But I shouldn’t even consider a Catholic dating site.

Depends, there is always potential for misguided child rebellious misinterpretation

But on the surface “I work my father’s homestead” and “I am not allowed to drive, or go out” sounds like you are a useful tool

And there is presented here a level of taunting of “get me rent money and work my land” while “dont make enough that I lose my labor”

If this is how it is playing out…

And then I DID meet someone on the site… He drove a long way to come see me… Was a perfect gentleman…

And my father doesn’t like him. Viscerally and irrationally. To the point of saying it’s ‘unhealthy’ that we talking on the phone daily.

This makes me very sad. I didn’t want to have to defy my father. I did want my father’s blessing on whatever relationship I pursue. But he’s put me in the position of, if not hiding things from my father, then at least seeking every opportunity to avoid telling him details.

My father is so over the top that he’s in danger of discrediting his GOOD advice.

We need to evaluate things semi objectively. Hormones and chemicals cloud judgment. You have to step back and see what advice would you give a friend?

Before I married my ex wife my Dad simply said “what would you tell a friend who told you this stuff?”

And I replied “Not to marry her, but this is different…”

So there are MANY irrational parental disaprovals, but we should always step back and make sure our dismissal of said disapproval is intellectual and not purely emotional.

I’m not asking for specific advice, like whether I should or shouldn’t date him - because I’m going to anyway - but just looking for some POVs and anecdotes, maybe a discussion of just how important a paternal blessing is to a marriage/relationship…

The blessings importance is tied to the above on irrationality. If intellectually irrational then what can we do?

If he was a perfect man of another race and your father were irrationally racist, his blessings importance diminishes greatly.

If he has valid issues like “the guy is on heroin… don’t marry him” then perhaps you should heed such a thing.

Unfortunately much is never so clear cut and intellectual discernment is important.

My mother is supportive and sympathetic and helpful and not enabling… I just wish I could count on my father that way, as well.

This is probably your best intellectual arguement against the seemingly irrational objections of your father.

And considering some of the arguements you have mentioned in another thread I might think your Mom is slightly more level headed

 

[SilverShadow22]

He’s not on heroin (lol) or anything of the kind.

Good job. Owns a house. Stable situation. Nicely older than me.

Mother is only concerned that I make a good decision and not get hurt. She basically says that all things being equal, who I want to live with is who I want to live with. She just wants to make sure I can live with it. :yup:

The irony is, that for everything my father complains about… He’s basically calling my own mother stupid. Because my potential more-than-friend is, at this juncture (and at a younger age) in a better place (faith-wise) than my father was when I was born… And I have the additional advantage of being a fully formed and committed Catholic (which at the time my mother was not).

So if either of them had come close to following my father’s current standards, I would not exist.

Which is not to say that I’m excusing everything they did wrong… I’m pointing out that I’m most emphatically not repeating their mistakes. And my father can’t see that.

 

[EasterJoy]

Your mom’s support of the new guy is a good sign, generally speaking, and she undoubtedly knows you’re a grown woman who is going to make her own decisions regardless of what Mom and Dad say. The roles I’m going to cover are by no means set in stone, they can be reversed, but mothers tend to be very practical that way. As for Dad…

I was at a wedding once when there was a conversation about how the father of the bride at a wedding often looked as if he were at a funeral, whereas the mother of the bride looks pretty thrilled once it becomes clear all will come off without a major glitch. A guest who was a new father (his daughter was under two) was asked to name anyone good enough to marry his daughter, including himself and his immediate family. Anyone. It took him two weeks, and the guy he finally found acceptable is now a highly-respected attorney and legislator, a very devout Catholic, not to mention a member of an entire family of about the nicest and most decent people you’d ever want to meet. Oh, and he looks like he could have been a lead actor, too. Nice choice, Dad.

Otherwise supportive and rational fathers can be like that, especially for their first daughter to get married. For many men, it will naturally seem to him as if any guy who is not immediately the son he never had isn’t quite up to par. (Men can be particularly wary of anyone who is too much the way he was at the same age! )

IOW, your father’s push-pull of wanting to keep you where he can protect you and wanting you to turn out independent and able to take care of yourself isn’t unusual in and of itself. The degree to which a father acts on these conflicting impulses is where the trouble can come in.

Your mother is your ally. I’d mainly confide in her and use her as an in-family sounding board. For instance: do they need the money? Would it be appropriate for you to contribute more financially for your own needs rather than for just extras, short of paying rent? Would Dad perhaps have less objection to your getting your license if he knew you’d be paying the difference for insuring a third driver? Would it help your mom if she could have you do errands for her that require a driver, such as grocery shopping? Would it be better or worse for them if you got your own place?

Be a grown-up, don’t use her as your mediator with your dad, but by all means use her to choose your battles and your tactics for achieving the most with your dad with only the discord that is necessary to get where you have decided you need to go.

It will become increasingly obvious whether or not you need to get your own place, but for now you ought to save up for first and last month’s rent and get sufficient employment to pay your own way in life. Until them, the question of moving out is a moot point, isn’t it?

You will also of course want to establish a good credit history. If you don’t have a credit card you use and pay off every month, by all means get one. You might even find it helps your credit history to make a very large purchase on it and pay it off over the course of several months–that used to help, but I don’t know how credit scores are figured now. That is a matter for research on a personal finance site. You might arrange to buy some furniture on your card that your parents were going to buy, anyway, and then pay it off over a time period most advantageous to your credit score. (I also knew a guy who could have paid cash for the car he was buying, but he got a car loan and paid it off over six months in order to qualify for better terms on a mortgage.)

That is the kind of thing you’ll want to research and get going on before you start out in life on your own. Learn about credit scores, insurance, planning household purchases from groceries to furniture, and so on. You could go to the library and check out “Making the Most of Your Money Now: The Classic Bestseller Completely Revised for the New Economy” by Jane Bryant Quinn. (They should teach this stuff in high school, but they don’t!)

 

[SilverShadow22]

For everyone’s context and information:

I’m 25

I do actually have my licence and know how to drive, I just don’t get much opportunity

I have a good savings started

And I’m becoming convinced that if I brought home Jesus, he wouldn’t be good enough. (He’s a bum! Where’s his job?)

Yeah, I expected some typical fatherly hassle. But when he veers into random, inappropriate comments that are mutually exclusive (he can’t trust me out of sight with him, but we’ll also have to be drunk to become intimate) and downright cruel - “you’ll come crying back six months after the marriage complaining what a big mistake you made” - that I have no more inclination to involve him at all.

But since he’s the stay at home parent, that can be hard to avoid

 

[EasterJoy]

For everyone’s context and information:

I’m 25

I do actually have my licence and know how to drive, I just don’t get much opportunity

I have a good savings started

And I’m becoming convinced that if I brought home Jesus, he wouldn’t be good enough. (He’s a bum! Where’s his job?)

Yeah, I expected some typical fatherly hassle. But when he veers into random, inappropriate comments that are mutually exclusive (he can’t trust me out of sight with him, but we’ll also have to be drunk to become intimate) and downright cruel - “you’ll come crying back six months after the marriage complaining what a big mistake you made” - that I have no more inclination to involve him at all.

But since he’s the stay at home parent, that can be hard to avoid

Ah, so license and no car of your own. Yes, by all means run errands and keep your driving skills up, if you have the chance. (Maybe your parents like the chance to get out of the house, though, who knows.)

Learn to take him with a grain of salt, vent with your mom–only a little!–and learn to take his inconsistencies with a sense of humor.

For instance, you can laugh and say, “Dad, we’ve been dating for two months, and you already have us married and divorced! Have you been watching too much Dr. Phil again? I think you need to change that channel back to Sports Center…”

Why do I suggest that? You have no control over his behavior and a limited ability to influence it. What you do not want to do is to give positive feedback on any communication habits you find unacceptable. If you do not want him to get the idea that comments you find unacceptable are comments he can expect you to take seriously, then avoid taking them seriously. If he objects, you can say that: “Dad, I can either take your criticisms of John as being offensive or I can take it as something to joke about. I choose to take the light side. I can cut that out, if you like, but you would have to realize I have not invited you to give opinions on my friends. Waiting for me to ask for your opinion may seem like asking a lot, but I don’t see it that way. If you give me an unsolicited opinion, be warned that I’m going to pay the going rate for it. You’d do best to stick to, ‘If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all.’”

In other words, try to teach him that he will not get a response that he likes when he gives you unsolicited comments that you did not want. You will ask him to stop and if he doesn’t, you’re going to let him know that he’s being inappropriate without feeling any need to defend yourself from his unsolicited criticisms. Your policy is going to be: “I only defend myself from criticisms I asked for or welcomed. I’m going to pointedly ignore the rest, in order to teach others that they are better off biting their tongues if they don’t have something constructive to say.”

I think you know he may pull the “I’m the landlord” card. Then it is up to you to decide if you’re willing to pay the “rent” of his sense of entitlement to criticize you without asking himself if he’s about to say something that meets the criteria of being true, kind, and useful. I wish I had some magic that could relieve that, but I don’t know of any. Draw you boundaries and then decide what you’re willing to do to defend them. Once we’re adults, we usually have to do that on our own. It hurts when we have to do that with our parents, but it isn’t that unusual. The good news is that once the new lines are established, things can get to a grudging respect for the adult child’s boundaries, and even a certain sense of pride that “my daughter doesn’t let anyone walk on her.”

 

[PaulfromIowa]

OP, what country, what ethnic culture are you in? Your story sounds unusual to me, but I am a Midwestern American.

 

[SilverShadow22]

OP, what country, what ethnic culture are you in? Your story sounds unusual to me, but I am a Midwestern American.

I live in an isolated patriarchal society with limited mobility in a semi rural area, with access to all amenities, some of which aforesaid amenities (air conditioning, for instance) are rejected by choice.

In other words… I live in Northeastern Ohio, USA

 

[LethalMouse]

I live in an isolated patriarchal society with limited mobility in a semi rural area, with access to all amenities, some of which aforesaid amenities (air conditioning, for instance) are rejected by choice.

In other words… I live in Northeastern Ohio, USA

Ew… I have central air AND window ACs…

This as you call it Northeastern Ohio, USA sounds like a scary place…

Tell the US you have oil and we will bring Airconditioning!

 

[SilverShadow22]

Ew… I have central air AND window ACs…

This as you call it Northeastern Ohio, USA sounds like a scary place…

Tell the US you have oil and we will bring Airconditioning!

AC is the least of my concerns

 

[AdamP88]

There’s nothing in Catholic teaching “requiring” an adult to gain parental approval before discerning/following a vocation. It may be desirable for the individual but the Church actually commands that parents do not unduly obstruct their children’s life choices. I would say that the importance of a father’s “blessing” is purely symbolic. You may have to accept that it’s not going to happen. But you can always pray for your father and hope that he comes around.

 

[SilverShadow22]

There’s nothing in Catholic teaching “requiring” an adult to gain parental approval before discerning/following a vocation. It may be desirable for the individual but the Church actually commands that parents do not unduly obstruct their children’s life choices. I would say that the importance of a father’s “blessing” is purely symbolic. You may have to accept that it’s not going to happen. But you can always pray for your father and hope that he comes around.

Yeah, I know that, but I had hoped he would come around just enough to be halfway decent… He managed to behave while my Potential Suitor was here, and then it all started going downhill when I said I intended to see him again.

 

[SilverShadow22]

Your mom’s support of the new guy is a good sign, generally speaking, and she undoubtedly knows you’re a grown woman who is going to make her own decisions regardless of what Mom and Dad say. The roles I’m going to cover are by no means set in stone, they can be reversed, but mothers tend to be very practical that way. As for Dad…

[sorry, had to delete because of our combined lengths]

This is all very good stuff, and I thank you.

Unfortunately, communication is not as simple as it could be. He will not accept, on any level, ‘I only want your opinion if I ask for it’ - because I won’t ask for it, because I know what I’m going to get.

I know why he makes the snide remarks, and that’s to goad me in a spirited defense he can use as proof of my irrational attachment to this Potential Suitor, so my father can then feel justified in keeping this PS and I apart.

I basically keep my phone on silent so that he doesn’t hear texts because that annoys him. And the fewer communications he registers as having taken place, the less he complains. I low-key hide whatever communications I can, because he thinks that talking on the phone more than three times a week is unhealthy.

Um… We’re long distance, we have some stuff to make up for. Duh. So, for instance, I haven’t told him that we use video chat. I’m sure that’s somehow ‘unhealthy’, too.

Oh and he doesn’t like that we met online… Despite that I actually knew him for months before we started taking exclusively. Despite that I talked to a bunch of other people who knew him. He could still be a fake online person who has told me nothing but lies

So the part that sparked most of the kickback was when I said I wanted to see him again. (Am I somehow supposed to make a conclusive decision based on one meeting???)

We live almost six hours apart, and like a gentleman, he came to see me first, met me in the presence of my family, took me to my aunt’s house, stayed overnight in a separate building on our property, and then went to church with us the next morning before going home.

So I want to meet him again in a city about halfway between us. Logical, right?

NO! It is DANGEROUS, it is IRRESPONSIBLE, and my father is the BEST PARENT IN THE WORLD for trying to stop me from going…

… On a day trip

…To a neutral city

…With my best friend

…To see someone I’ve already met.

And then he wonders why I can’t take pretty much anything he says seriously.

 

[Lou2U]

This is all very good stuff, and I thank you.

Unfortunately, communication is not as simple as it could be. He will not accept, on any level, ‘I only want your opinion if I ask for it’ - because I won’t ask for it, because I know what I’m going to get.

I know why he makes the snide remarks, and that’s to goad me in a spirited defense he can use as proof of my irrational attachment to this Potential Suitor, so my father can then feel justified in keeping this PS and I apart.

I basically keep my phone on silent so that he doesn’t hear texts because that annoys him. And the fewer communications he registers as having taken place, the less he complains. I low-key hide whatever communications I can, because he thinks that talking on the phone more than three times a week is unhealthy.

Um… We’re long distance, we have some stuff to make up for. Duh. So, for instance, I haven’t told him that we use video chat. I’m sure that’s somehow ‘unhealthy’, too.

Oh and he doesn’t like that we met online… Despite that I actually knew him for months before we started taking exclusively. Despite that I talked to a bunch of other people who knew him. He could still be a fake online person who has told me nothing but lies

So the part that sparked most of the kickback was when I said I wanted to see him again. (Am I somehow supposed to make a conclusive decision based on one meeting???)

We live almost six hours apart, and like a gentleman, he came to see me first, met me in the presence of my family, took me to my aunt’s house, stayed overnight in a separate building on our property, and then went to church with us the next morning before going home.

So I want to meet him again in a city about halfway between us. Logical, right?

NO! It is DANGEROUS, it is IRRESPONSIBLE, and my father is the BEST PARENT IN THE WORLD for trying to stop me from going…

… On a day trip

…To a neutral city

…With my best friend

…To see someone I’ve already met.

And then he wonders why I can’t take pretty much anything he says seriously.

You know your father is being unreasonable, but you want his blessing for your relationship. I think, like another poster has said, you will have to give up on that idea. It is nice to have, but not necessarily something you need for a relationship.

Lou

 

[SilverShadow22]

You know your father is being unreasonable, but you want his blessing for your relationship. I think, like another poster has said, you will have to give up on that idea. It is nice to have, but not necessarily something you need for a relationship.

Lou

I guess the best I’m hoping for is to not be disowned

But I still appreciate the discussion and the helpful advice from everyone.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I guess the best I’m hoping for is to not be disowned

But I still appreciate the discussion and the helpful advice from everyone.

Disowned!? Is that a thing?

Who owns you?

 

[SilverShadow22]

Disowned!? Is that a thing?

Who owns you?

As in - not comes to the wedding and continue a sense of disapproval, just waiting for the failure so he can cry ‘tolja!’

At present, my father pretty much does own me.

 

[EasterJoy]

This is all very good stuff, and I thank you.

Unfortunately, communication is not as simple as it could be. He will not accept, on any level, ‘I only want your opinion if I ask for it’ - because I won’t ask for it, because I know what I’m going to get.

I know why he makes the snide remarks, and that’s to goad me in a spirited defense he can use as proof of my irrational attachment to this Potential Suitor, so my father can then feel justified in keeping this PS and I apart.

I basically keep my phone on silent so that he doesn’t hear texts because that annoys him. And the fewer communications he registers as having taken place, the less he complains. I low-key hide whatever communications I can, because he thinks that talking on the phone more than three times a week is unhealthy.

Um… We’re long distance, we have some stuff to make up for. Duh. So, for instance, I haven’t told him that we use video chat. I’m sure that’s somehow ‘unhealthy’, too.

Oh and he doesn’t like that we met online… Despite that I actually knew him for months before we started taking exclusively. Despite that I talked to a bunch of other people who knew him. He could still be a fake online person who has told me nothing but lies

So the part that sparked most of the kickback was when I said I wanted to see him again. (Am I somehow supposed to make a conclusive decision based on one meeting???)

We live almost six hours apart, and like a gentleman, he came to see me first, met me in the presence of my family, took me to my aunt’s house, stayed overnight in a separate building on our property, and then went to church with us the next morning before going home.

So I want to meet him again in a city about halfway between us. Logical, right?

NO! It is DANGEROUS, it is IRRESPONSIBLE, and my father is the BEST PARENT IN THE WORLD for trying to stop me from going…

… On a day trip

…To a neutral city

…With my best friend

…To see someone I’ve already met.

And then he wonders why I can’t take pretty much anything he says seriously.

I don’t know how old your dad is, but do remember that many men with 25 year old daughters can still vaguely remember computers with punch cards and a time when Perry Mason was the coolest LA attorney ever because he had a convertible with an enormous cellular phone. To an older-than-you person who doesn’t see a need for air-conditioning, meeting someone on the internet is just a little bit safer than getting his phone number off of the stall in a ladies’ room. You’ll get nowhere arguing that it was the ladies’ room of a very nice restaurant.

You are right that short of getting you to roll over immediately and saying “gee, Dad, when you put it like that, it* does* sound pretty stupid,” he wants to goad you into a defense. I don’t think he wants it to be spirited; he just wants an excuse to go on offense. You are wise to quietly demur on that. That is a contest in which a draw is the best you can hope for, so you are right to not like those odds.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

As in - not comes to the wedding and continue a sense of disapproval, just waiting for the failure so he can cry ‘tolja!’

At present, my father pretty much does own me.

I’m currious with the way you portray your father why you would even invite and or care about his toljas.

 

[SilverShadow22]

I don’t know how old your dad is, but do remember that many men with 25 year old daughters can still vaguely remember computers with punch cards and a time when Perry Mason was the coolest LA attorney ever because he had a convertible with an enormous cellular phone. To an older-than-you person who doesn’t see a need for air-conditioning, meeting someone on the internet is just a little bit safer than getting his phone number off of the stall in a ladies’ room. You’ll get nowhere arguing that it was the ladies’ room of a very nice restaurant.

You are right that short of getting you to roll over immediately and saying “gee, Dad, when you put it like that, it* does* sound pretty stupid,” he wants to goad you into a defense. I don’t think he wants it to be spirited; he just wants an excuse to go on offense. You are wise to quietly demur on that. That is a contest in which a draw is the best you can hope for, so you are right to not like those odds.

You’re pretty much right.

The irony is, I grew up on so many old movies, that world seems pretty real to me, too. I’m not even close to as techie-modern-addicted as most people my age. I’m simply proficient…and he’s not.