Unwilling spouse? What happens at Retrouvaille?

[Pug]

What does happen at Retrouvaille? The question wasn’t really answered on this thread.

I have wondered why this question is not more readily answered as well. My universal experience has been that I have regretted not knowing beforehand about secretive things of any weight. If it is about letting go of grudges, are you asked to trust again, even though you know the person hasn’t changed? If you are, the weekend is pointless for some couples.

 

[cmujake]

Pug,

You are right in saying that the weekend is pointless for some: for those that have no intention or desire to forgive and/or change past behaviors.

For many, though, it is a matter of wanting to change and needing a vehicle to do it. Believe me, I am a person who needs to know every little detail about everything. You know what, though, sometimes you just have to listen to what those experienced are saying and just try something. In my marriage, this weekend certainly cannot make things worse; only better. Major issues with a marriage are sometimes much bigger than the couple themselves; they require a much larger remedy than the couple working things out on their own (i.e. The Lord’s help through Retrouvaille.)

God Bless.

 

[hasikelee]

Hey, I’m not married and I haven’t been to a Retrouvaille. But, I did go to Engaged Encounters, which is the program offered for those preparing to marry.

For the member on this thread wondering about these programs, it isn’t so much what you do there, but the atmosphere and commitment.

For example, people go on vacations and eat food, watch tv, maybe go shopping…you can do all of those things at home, right? So why bother going on vacation? For the commitment to focus on one thing. With vacations, it may be sports or relaxation. For Retrouvaille, it is your marriage.

From my personal experience, nothing I did at engaged encounters was new or enlightening. We could have stayed at home and sat on the couch doing the same thing. But the process of actually scheduling three days, committing to our relationship, traveling out there and spending designated time with each other, can’t be imitated.

Knowing that you are sitting in a private room with 30 minutes to focus, focus, focus, without a phone or tv or radio, work, school or children, that is the key to these programs. It is a retreat for you to learn, heal, pray, cry and get back in touch with each other.

After experiencing 3 days, I would beg every married couple or couple considering marriage to go.

 

[Proeliator]

cmujake,
I will include you in my rosary this evening. By the way I see a lot of this retrouvaille mentioned here. Sounds like my wife and I could benefit-things have been tough around here. Must be the season

 

[Pug]

For many, though, it is a matter of wanting to change and needing a vehicle to do it. Believe me, I am a person who needs to know every little detail about everything. You know what, though, sometimes you just have to listen to what those experienced are saying and just try something.

True. I’ll pray for those going to Retrouvaille this weekend, and anyone needing prayers on this thread.

 

[nana3]

I will certainly pray for you marriage also. I think so many people get out because they are thinking of themselves and their own happiness. Unless a person is being physically or emotionally abused, I think their should be some hope in keeping the marriage together. I fell so bad for you and hope that your wife’s heart will be touched by the Holy Spirit. Miracles do happen!

 

[kellyb32]

Kelly, I could answer your 9 questions, but the answers may not be correct or what U want to hear. …It is my experience and what Retrouvaille gave / did for us.

To get your answers, you need to go to Retrouvaille.

The experience is phenomenal … It was beyond anything I had expected when we went in April this year. It is hard to explain.

If you would still like answers to the 9 questions… PM me and I will try my best to share my experience with you.

Hi everyone… I’m sorry I haven’t been able to continue with this thread these last few days…Thanksgiving wasn’t the holiday that was expected.

Two of my 4 little ones ended up in the ER on Thanksgiving morning, both dehydrated from a night of vomitting and the runs. Momma got sick while at the ER and daddy was sick later that night. Baby got sick when we got home, grandma and grandpa got sick thanks to helping us and we are all still recovering. Baby was up 3 times last night throwing up still and DS still has a belly ache and the runs today but nothing like a couple of days ago.

Our dinner (breakfast and lunch too) was crackers and jello on thursday. Friday we graduated to applesauce and toast, Saturday we had bananas too!

Gwyn, I would love for you to answer my questions. Most of them can be answered with “yes” or “no” and that would be fine. There’s really no need to PM the answers when they are so general unless you want to share something private. Whatever you feel comfortable with I’ll go with that. Just remember that I don’t need to know the details of your experience. That’s why I’m asking such broad questions. I am perfectly happy with NOT knowing what personally happened to you, all I’m asking about is the program in general.

I do have to ask again why there is so much resistance to openly answering questions about Retrouvaille? I just don’t get it. It’s like a secretive affair that almost reminds me of an exclusive “members only” club. No one is allowed to talk about it or are willing to talk about it openly for others who may have questions prior to the experience.

To be honest it’s a turn off for me. I’m not saying that I won’t go. I’m just saying that everyone’s attitude towards me about questioning the program has been very discouraging .

Jehovah’s Witnesses will only answer questions to a point before they begin telling you, “Come to a meeting and your questions will be answered there because you have to see for yourself.”

Sorry for the comparison guys, but you know that’s what this whole thread reminds me of.

There still is the 20% of couples that don’t benefit from Retrouvaille and I’m sure there is more to it than one or the other spouse being unwilling. That seems to be the single answer as to why a marriage won’t work after Retrouvaille, one of the spouses wasn’t willing to work at it. The destruction of a marriage isn’t as simple as one or the other person not wanting to fix it. There are many layers to it and the same simple answer will not suffice for each failed marriage after Retrouvaille.

This thread has been quite frustrating to say the least. DH and I have survived things years ago that most couples would have divorced over. We are BOTH willing to make this marriage work and we sincerely believe that if God didn’t intend for us to still be together, we wouldn’t have had 3 more children in the last 5 years. It’s because of the 4 beautiful gifts we share together that we’re working hard towards this being not only a successful marriage, but a happy one too.

Forgive me if I’m sounding snippy. I don’t mean to be.

Maybe I just need more sleep…

Gwyn, if you feel more comfortable PMing the answers, I’ll graciously accept that. But please keep in mind I don’t want personal details of your weekend, these are just general questions that require general answers. I’d be happy with that.

Thanks again for your patience with me!

 

[Teakafrog]

Kelly, I could answer your 9 questions, but the answers may not be correct or what U want to hear. …It is my experience and what Retrouvaille gave / did for us.

To get your answers, you need to go to Retrouvaille.

The experience is phenomenal … It was beyond anything I had expected when we went in April this year. It is hard to explain.

If you would still like answers to the 9 questions… PM me and I will try my best to share my experience with you.

Kelly, she DID answer you. It is something that the ‘whole’ is unable to be described by breaking down into a list of yes/no. Again, we’ve told you the basics, but for specifics, it will vary by weekend. Each weekend has a different set of presenting couples, and therefore will have a different ‘vibe’ to it. If you read through this thread, almost all your questions have already been answered. You know that it is a volunteer-led retreat that focuses on communication. You know that the people who have gone have all stated that they are unable to sum up the experience in just a few words, yet that all say that it is worth going to. That’s all ANY of us knew going in to it. And guess what, WE WENT ANYWAY! Because we knew our marriages, or at least our children, were worth it.

 

[USCGwife]

…sometimes we want “control” and we use concepts like “needing to understand” to further what really is a core control issue.

Tell me, candidly…if someone did give you the whole list of discussion topics/questions today, would you start preparing your answers now, whether mentally or in written notes? If so, the whole exercise has turned into a stale, written homework assignment…and your spouse is at a serious disadvantage for not having the same heads-up to formulate the rebuttals. If he also got the list, it gives you both things to butt heads over at home, particularly when one of you has had a tough day…that’s when we tend to smell the blood in the water & let loose. That way when the program day rolls around, you both can have tons of “topic baggage” already in tow and use the time to win/lose the dragging debates. Sounds like a setup for failure to me. I honestly think you’re better off not knowing in advance.

I’ve never been to the program, but I’m betting part of the point is to look at things with a fresh perspective, and possibly to learn (from the facilitators) a better underlying framework to approach problems - generically called “improved communication” (sometimes called “fighting fair”!)…and this will be as different as night & day from one couple to the next. By trying to frame it in someone else’s worldview, or by trying to restrict it to a finite list of descriptors, I believe you’ll be handicapping your/your spouse’s potential success.

Sometimes we just have to have faith. And sometimes we have to let someone else be in control. Scary, yes. But if things aren’t very good to begin with, what’s to lose?

…chucking 2 cents from the cheap seats…

 

[ktp]

I do have to ask again why there is so much resistance to openly answering questions about Retrouvaille? I just don’t get it. It’s like a secretive affair that almost reminds me of an exclusive “members only” club. No one is allowed to talk about it or are willing to talk about it openly for others who may have questions prior to the experience.

There’s really nothing very secretive about it, but they do ask attendees not to give away details as to exactly what happens there (I believe that means the dialoguing technique that someone already mentioned) and I seem to recall that the reason was simply this: many people, men especially, are terrified at the thought of writing their feelings. Once they get there and do it-- in the way taught, with the feedback and discussion afterward-- they find it helpful, but many would simply refuse to go if they read they were going to spend the weekend writing letters.

I would say a second reason is that most of us (possibly myself included, so I’m not making judgments on anyone) might take the attitude of-- WRITE LETTERS? Heck, I can write letters so why bother with the hassle of going away for the weekend.

At the weekend, they lead you through a process and form of writing these letters, what should be in them, and how to follow up with each other after reading each others’ letters.

There still is the 20% of couples that don’t benefit from Retrouvaille and I’m sure there is more to it than one or the other spouse being unwilling. That seems to be the single answer as to why a marriage won’t work after Retrouvaille, one of the spouses wasn’t willing to work at it. The destruction of a marriage isn’t as simple as one or the other person not wanting to fix it. There are many layers to it and the same simple answer will not suffice for each failed marriage after Retrouvaille.

I guess I’m not clear on your point here. Nothing will benefit 100% of couples. That’s a given. And I’m not sure what the point is about whether that 20% is due entirely or only partially to one spouse being unwilling. Is there a further question there?

I would say I’m in that 20% for whom Retrouvaille did not work. I suppose we were both willing ‘to make our marriage work’ but I don’t believe that my husband saw that as including having to listen to the depths to which his behavior hurt me, or change certain of his behaviors.

On the other hand, it’s been 18 months, and neither of us has filed for divorce yet. Things have improved, although there are major issues still unresolved.

Someone mentioned the difficulty of finding sitters for 4 children. We found sitters for 8 and even with that and feeling that it didn’t really benefit us, I would still strongly encourage anyone to go. IF my marriage ends, I will at least know I did everything in my power to fix things.

 

[kellyb32]

There’s really nothing very secretive about it, but they do ask attendees not to give away details as to exactly what happens there (I believe that means the dialoguing technique that someone already mentioned) and I seem to recall that the reason was simply this: many people, men especially, are terrified at the thought of writing their feelings. Once they get there and do it-- in the way taught, with the feedback and discussion afterward-- they find it helpful, but many would simply refuse to go if they read they were going to spend the weekend writing letters.

No problem here, my husband would rather write instead of talking to me. The letter writing has proved very beneficial to this relationship. When we submitted the letters to the counselor, he said that we share so much more with each other than he has typically seen in couples. Writing is great therapy for both of us. DH is a writer anyway, poems, short stories, novels, and now blogs and a website…he’s very creative with his words. I always tease him and tell him to use that creativity with me.

I would say a second reason is that most of us (possibly myself included, so I’m not making judgments on anyone) might take the attitude of-- WRITE LETTERS? Heck, I can write letters so why bother with the hassle of going away for the weekend.

At the weekend, they lead you through a process and form of writing these letters, what should be in them, and how to follow up with each other after reading each others’ letters.

This is important. I’m glad to know this too.

I guess I’m not clear on your point here. Nothing will benefit 100% of couples. That’s a given. And I’m not sure what the point is about whether that 20% is due entirely or only partially to one spouse being unwilling. Is there a further question there?

I would say I’m in that 20% for whom Retrouvaille did not work. I suppose we were both willing ‘to make our marriage work’ but I don’t believe that my husband saw that as including having to listen to the depths to which his behavior hurt me, or change certain of his behaviors.

On the other hand, it’s been 18 months, and neither of us has filed for divorce yet. Things have improved, although there are major issues still unresolved.

I’m sorry to know that you were in the 20%…right now . You are seeing small improvements and that’s hopeful. DH and I went through about 4 years of small improvements, and I mean small…before we looked at each other in these last couple of months and realized that those baby steps are finally turning into more confident steps. We’re still careful but we’re not falling down every one or two steps like we were.

My husband knows his habits and behaviors have damaged this marriage. I also know that my attitudes and reactions have really damaged this marriage too. With both of us taking responsiblity for what we’ve done and NOT blaming each other all the time (like we used to do) that’s where we are seeing progress.

Yes we still have some major issues that are unresolved. But Rome wasn’t built in a day. It took years to break down this marriage. A weekend won’t make it magically better. It’s just a small step towards bigger and better things.

Someone mentioned the difficulty of finding sitters for 4 children. We found sitters for 8 and even with that and feeling that it didn’t really benefit us, I would still strongly encourage anyone to go. IF my marriage ends, I will at least know I did everything in my power to fix things.

That someone was me. Right now my parents are not in the kind of health that is needed to care for 4 young children. Mom suffered a stroke, dad recovering from cancer. They do what they can when they feel good but we don’t expect much right now. My in-laws really don’t associate with us simply because we’re Catholic. We’ve asked them to watch the kids for 2 hours so we can go to a movie and that’s not even possible let alone a whole weekend. My best friends and my sister all moved out of town, so that leaves strangers to babysit and that isn’t going to happen.

We’ll have to wait for a Retrouvaille weekend. Until we are able to go we’ll continue to work on our marriage in the best way we know how right now and keep taking small steps to improve this relationship for ours and the childrens sakes.

Thank you for taking the time to PM me the answers to my questions.

Teakafrog said my questions were answered in past posts. I reread them and found answers to 5 out of the 9 questions. Had ktp not PMd me, I would’ve asked about the other 4 again.

I’ll stop bugging everyone now

You can all hug ktp and offer up lots of prayers for her and her family in thanks for stopping the nagging Retrouvaille monster

God bless everyone who had patience with me here!

Kelly

 

[cmujake]

Well, I have an update to my story.

This morning my wife was supposed to be going to work and instead I found out she wasn’t there at all. She went to the city. I have reason to believe she was with another man. I haven’t approached her with this information in fear that she will not go to Retrouvaille this weekend with me. How do I, though, go to Retrouvaille and put in 100% when I suspect that she is not doing the same?

 

[Pug]

Well, I have an update to my story.

Oh! I’m sorry! I’d still go to the weekend. God can work in mysterious ways. Oh, that sounds bad, but I mean it. Keep your mind on the fact that God is in control, and that your life will go under his direction, even if you don’t like the direction at the time.

Try not to be sarcastic at the weekend. I’d be very tempted to be so if it were me. But I’ve never gained anything with sarcasm. Just be responsible for you. Do your level best and see what happens. This you will not regret. It would be easy to regret only trying half way.

 

[mariam1976]

Well, I have an update to my story.

dont worry about it… What is impossible for men is possible for God… anyways… u dont know for sure why she went to the city so dont jump to conclusions…
meanwhile… just place your trust in God and have a wonderful week… i will be praying for you this weekend…

 

[cmujake]

Pug,

I will do my best to still give it 100% effort. I pray that God will help my wife find her way this weekend. She is not the woman that I fell in love with and married.

 

[cmujake]

dont worry about it… What is impossible for men is possible for God… anyways… u dont know for sure why she went to the city so dont jump to conclusions…
meanwhile… just place your trust in God and have a wonderful week… i will be praying for you this weekend…

Mariam,

That’s all I left at this point is my faith that God will take care of things.

I don’t like to jump to conclusions, but it is very hard not to at this point. My wife told me lies about 3 places that she was going to today. What is the point of saying you are going somewhere and lying if you have nothing to hide?

Jake

 

[mariam1976]

Jake… i cant answer your question about why she lied… maybe she is feeling intimidated about this weekend and just needs to talk to someone about it… but she didnt want you to know…
anyways… there has been no hint of anything like that yet from any of your postings i think… so please dont start thinking the worst…
give it your best like pug said and leave the rest to God and dont behave differently when she comes home today as that could act like a detriment to this weekend…
God bless…

 

[cmujake]

Mariam,

I will be a good soldier and still give 100%.

I will not act differently around her, either.

Blessings.

Jake

 

[unworthy]

Jake,
you’re a good husband. And honestly, you’re a good father, too. I commend you. I wish my father was the way you are. Ask St. Joseph, patron Saint of fathers, to pray for you. Here is a novena that I prayed for my father which was quite miraculous to say the least. You might choose to pray it for your wife:
catholicdoors.com/prayers/novenas/p00005.htm

I am blessed to see that a good husband and papa like you exists!

-unworthy

 

[mariam1976]

Jake,
you’re a good husband. And honestly, you’re a good father, too. I commend you. I wish my father was the way you are. Ask St. Joseph, patron Saint of fathers, to pray for you. Here is a novena that I prayed for my father which was quite miraculous to say the least. You might choose to pray it for your wife:
catholicdoors.com/prayers/novenas/p00005.htm

I am blessed to see that a good husband and papa like you exists!

-unworthy

i second that!!! God Bless you for your good heart!!!..