Unwilling spouse? What happens at Retrouvaille?

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Ray_Scheel said:
It means just that - at this phase the spouse considering leaving is often feeling smothered and anything you initiate that interacts with her will be taken as smothering behavior. “Going dark” is another expression I’ve seen used. Find time to do fun things for yourself by yourself and don’t invite her, don’t talk about it much to her without her prompting you - just go / do. Let her be the one to ask to talk to you next. Let her start her own car. Leave her wondering if you are going to have a better time without her that she would without you and realizing through its absencewhat she is going to miss about having you around.

Now, when she’s ready, she’ll ask to start spending time with you, or askign to talk - the proper reaction there is consenting but trying to keep your excitement restrained. Essentially, it is a version of playing “hard to get” where the ball is in her court but you are not waiting / begging for her to play ball with you.
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that is just awesome… u put it so well… 👍 👍

i was struggling to put the same point acros… thats the mistake i did with my husband… kept hounding him and hounding him till it was too late…

but also be ready for the fact that maybe she might not miss you but at that point you know that you could not have done anything about it anyways…
 
Ray_Scheel said:
It means just that - at this phase the spouse considering leaving is often feeling smothered and anything you initiate that interacts with her will be taken as smothering behavior.
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I can’t agree with this more. When my husband and I were having problems and I was the one who wanted out, I felt “smothered” by him. It wasn’t a deliberate action on his part, but he was trying so hard to keep us together that every action seemed pathetic and overboard.

Luckily, he talked to his mother and she advised him to seriously “back off”. This was very hard for him (as he later told me) but it gave me the breathing room I needed to sort out my feelings about him and our relationship.

Our marriage survived.
 
cmujake said:
Please continue to pray for me. She is back to her behavior of expressing her anger toward me, while I am still being kind to her. I kind of get the feeling that she has made up her mind and she is too prideful to let anything change that decision. I am not feeling so good about the future
and I am scared to death.

God Bless all of You.

Jake
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I agree with the back-off advice. I’m glad the weekend was a beginning. She may have all sorts of feelings causing her to say her heart is cold. That sounds like a position that easily comes from strong feelings, and not those of indifference. Still praying.🙂
 
At this point, I am not feeling like the weekend was a beginning. Not if she has no interest in dialoguing or going to the post sessions.

Pug, I have to respectfully disagree with your comment about
She may have all sorts of feelings causing her to say her heart is cold. That sounds like a position that easily comes from strong feelings, and not those of indifference. To me, that sounded exactly like indifference and surrender.
 
cmujake said:
To me, that sounded exactly like indifference and surrender.
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Jake, you heard her tone of voice, and of course you would know better than me what she meant and what was in her mind. :cool: I’m sorry it is bleak. I think of how desolate I felt when my marriage almost fell over the brink. I was terrified. My friends, family, and God kept me sane.
 
cmujake said:
To me, that sounded exactly like indifference and surrender.
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If she was indifferent she wopuldn’t be trying to hurt you with comments like that; and when she hits surrender she’ll quit responding to her at all. Right now she is looking for reasons to dislike what you are doing, your goal is to back off enough where she cannot complain about what you are doing because you won’t be asking / doing anything with her that she didn’t initiate herself. The weekend probably impacted you more than you think, but now she’s trying to figure out how to squelch whatever turmoil it caused in her, and finding fault with you is what she’s gotten in the habit of doing. If you give her things to complain about it distracts her from the turmoil, you lose - even if what you did was just turning on her car.

Now, there are some things you need to do yourself as far as personal boundries too, in order to reduce your profile. There is a book called “Boundries” in the Christian self-help section that you might also want to review - both so you recognize her and to quit being walked over yourself - most likely she’s also losing respect for you. When she told you to email her to ask about when to continue to dialogue, your response then should have been to immediately tell her to just email you instead when she had some times in mind, instead of allowing her to force you into a position where she could stall you again (and again, and again). Now that she’s sloughed responsibility for the next contact off on you again when she’s just going to use almost any response as yet another sign of further somthering by you - how to handle that is goign to take some careful consideration. I’d get advise from women who were also considering leaving on how to / not to respond to that pickle, I’m not sure. I do know that a slow response will not hurt you, it may even be that no response is best.
 
hi… can you send me the link for book on Boundaries please?
although I am way past that point, it would still be something good to know.
 
Hi Jake,

I guess what some of these folks are saying is not to give up. Your marriage did not get to the point it is at in one weekend. Maybe it is going to take a little while for things to develop and get better.

Keep praying. Ask your Guardian Angel and hers to help out. Also keep in mind how you both felt toward each other when you were dating. Remind your wife of those great times and that you want to get that closeness back.

We are all praying for you.

Matt
 
Matt,

I spent the weekend talking to her about the good times and reminding her of how happy we used to be. All she can keep saying is, “my love for you is dead. I don’t have any attraction to you.”

Right now she’s in the other room telling her mother that she needs to sell the house because she couldn’t afford it with just the child support that she would be getting from me.

I’m tired of trying with her. She is so convinced that she wants a divorce. I went into the other room where she was and just said, “nice, real nice.”

She thinks that all of her problems are going to be solved by getting a divorce. I’m waiting for the divorce papers to arrive any day now. To be honest, at this point, I don’t have the energy left to fight for this marriage. She obviously has other plans. When the kids are suffering after we divorce, I cannot feel any pity for her.

It’s not that her feelings are going to change. She obviously doesn’t want to even bother with me any more.

Jake
 
Jake, it sounds like you are a little angry at your wife’s response from the weekend and I can relate to that. You really expected God to do something wonderful this weekend and you really believed this. Is this what you felt? I could be wrong, but I am just guessing. I just went through a custody battle hearing for one of my sisters. I really believed the judge would rule in favor of my sister who was not lying and who had a counselor as a witness to tell the judge of the child abuse that was accuring at the dads. I had all this faith and trust in God to do what was right for these kids. It did not turn out as I prayed for and in fact my sister was charged in contempt for not giving the kids, she was just protecting them, to her ex over the summer. The ex silenced the counselor by not giving his permission for her to disclosed what was told to her in therapy by his children. The judge had no choice but to rule in his favor, for there was no evidence that could be submitted. I was so angry at God. I trusted in Him and led my sister to believe that all would be fine. I still think I am a little angry at God for allowing all this to happen. One of the children still suffers and has given up believing that God would help her. It is all sad, but I know that an all knowing God does know what he is doing and has it all in his control, but me being only human don’t see it that way and I do try. We are only human afterall and will be angry at things that we expected and wanted to happen. I just say this in case that is what you are going through. It is okay to be angry, but don’t give up hope until the divorce papers are signed. I do think that giving her room to think is a good thing for you and her. Right now, you are upset at her for looking like “she has given up” and we don’t know for sure if she has. Give her time and space. You keep praying and not giving up hope and if you need to tell God you are angry at him, but remember we all have free will that he has given to us as a gift. It is so difficult to accept God’s plans at times, but we have to trust that he does have your and Heather’s best interest in mind. I know it is so hard to do huh? Trusting God will please him the most and you have to at least try.

When my sister and her husband had their fight that led him to leave the house, both of them said things in anger. The emotion of anger was so high that both were saying things that they regretted later, or at least my sister has. Don’t ask her to file for divorce and try to never speak to her in anger. If you feel that you just want to give up and in anger say something, better for you to walk away and not say anything. You may regret it so much later. My sister did tell this to her husband and in anger, he did file for divorce. She justified her saying it by convencing herself that he wanted a divorce anyway, but she gave him the easy way out. She has regretted this and sees the damage divorce has on the children.

I will continue to pray for your marriage and don’t give up hope. It is so easy to say, but I am doing the same with my ex BIL situation with abusing my niece and nephew. I have to trust in God and have hope that something will be done to protect the children. Jesus loves you and is so happy to see you try so hard to keep your marriage going, and I wished more husband were like you and really want to work on helping improve their marriage. Talk to Jesus as you would a friend, for he is your friend and God, and tell him what is most on your heart and soul. Ask HIm to console your broken heart and to touch your wife’s heart. Trust in whatever happens.
 
I know it is hard, but you gotta pull back now and quit lashing out at her. Go dark, very dark. Quit listening in, etc. Go take the kids someplace fun by yourself a few evenings this week, ASAP. You need some space yourself right now so you stay sane.

Since she’s already presuming she’ll get child support, I have to ask if you have you considered asking for primary custody yourself? Even before my own marriage went down, I was of the opinon that a parent who left without a good reason was the one least emotionally prepared to raise the kids. Just about anyone in your positoin is going to have a hard time processing things, but your at least priorities are more or less in the right spot. If you could keep the house, you would be able to propose that to the court as a way to keep more stability for the kids during the transition. You might make it clear when she hints at it that you will not be leaving the home if she requests - this is a good boundry for you - if she is so sure she wants to break up the home and would just sell the house anyway, then she needs to be the one to figure out how to leave the house on her own.
 
Ray_Scheel said:
I know it is hard, but you gotta pull back now and quit lashing out at her. Go dark, very dark. Quit listening in, etc. Go take the kids someplace fun by yourself a few evenings this week, ASAP. You need some space yourself right now so you stay sane.

Since she’s already presuming she’ll get child support, I have to ask if you have you considered asking for primary custody yourself? Even before my own marriage went down, I was of the opinon that a parent who left without a good reason was the one least emotionally prepared to raise the kids. Just about anyone in your positoin is going to have a hard time processing things, but your at least priorities are more or less in the right spot. If you could keep the house, you would be able to propose that to the court as a way to keep more stability for the kids during the transition. You might make it clear when she hints at it that you will not be leaving the home if she requests - this is a good boundry for you - if she is so sure she wants to break up the home and would just sell the house anyway, then she needs to be the one to figure out how to leave the house on her own.
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this is really good advice… you obviously care more for the kids than she does so if she files for divorce, i would also say keep the house and the kids… what does she mean by child support when she doesnt want to keep your family intact? and in fact she doesnt have a leg to stand on considering the situation… so dont you worry about giving her your word about not contesting the divorce… you dont contest the divorce, go ahead and give it to her but it does not have to be on her terms… she gets to leave you but she cannot tear your heart out while she is doing it… let her fend for herself…
 
Well, when I followed up with her about the dialogue (which she requested I do), she told me that she doesn’t have two words to say to me. She also told me, “I hope you enjoy the silence because that’s how it’s going to be from now on!”

I’ll go to the post sessions, but I won’t ask her to go or to dialogue. I guess I won’t be speaking with her until she says something to me. I will just hang out and wait for the divorce papers to arrive; probably after the holidays so that she can spend money (mine and hers) on her family for Christmas.
 
well… if it is silence that she wants, give it to her. make sure that you take out plenty of fun time for yourself and the kids and dont get too stressed out about it. As it was not your plan to get divorced, God will bring greater good out of this for you, rest assured.
I will be praying for you.
 
If you really want to try to pull your marraige back from the brink, you are going to have to quit setting yourself up for her to knock you down and you are going to have to set some boundries of your own. It doesnt’ amtter that she asked you to folow up with her about dialoging since she’d already put you off twice when you asked her - it really was her responsibility to come to you with the follow-up.

At this point, it wouldn’t be out of line for you to start getting your ducks in a row on the presumption she’s going to file for divorce and is going to try to hurt you as much as you can when she does.
 
Ray,

If I start doing things to separate myself financially, that will definitely be the end of us.

I am hanging in there and asking the Lord to do his will.

I am giving her the distance in the house. I am letting Retrouvaille sink into her head.

God Bless,

Jake
 
I understand that too. It is a hard thing to try to muddle though when you don’t want it and are just waiting for the other shoe to drop. If you’ve wondered, a summary of my story is here.
I will be praying for you, keep us posted, and (at the risk of sounding like a broken record) make some time for yourself and for you and the kids to hang out (and let us know how that goes too). Ther are a lot of people here rooting for you and your marriage - so long as you keep doing your best, you will be the able to face the mirror each day knowing you are doing the best you know how - a person sleeps better that way.
 
Ray,

Thanks for the encouragement. I am not going to give up on my marriage until I take my last breath.

I am sleeping great at night and have no problem looking at myself in the mirror, knowing that I am giving it my all.

God Bless,

Jake
 
cmujake said:
Ray,

Thanks for the encouragement. I am not going to give up on my marriage until I take my last breath.

I am sleeping great at night and have no problem looking at myself in the mirror, knowing that I am giving it my all.

God Bless,

Jake
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U R THE BEST!!! hang in there… will be praying for you…👍 👍 👍
 
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