Upon this Rock..

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Paul_theApostle

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I read this that says the Catholic catechism believes the Rock that the church is built on is Peters confession of faith-

from justforcatholics.org/a88.htm

On the other hand, we can simply understand “rock” to refer to the confession of faith made by Simon Peter. This is not a fanciful Protestant interpretation as some might suppose. Many Church Fathers gave it this meaning, and even the modern Roman Catholic church admits that this is the possible meaning. We read in the Catechism of the Catholic Church: “Moved by the grace of the Holy Spirit and drawn by the Father, we believe in Jesus and confess: ‘You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.’ On the rock of this faith confessed by St Peter, Christ built his Church” (paragraph 424). Truly, the rock is the faith confessed by Peter
 
As with many things, this is an “and/both” thing. Peter is the rock because his faith is a rock. To this day, the faith of Peter is like a rock and is preserved in the teaching of his successors (that’s what papal infallibility is all about).
 
Okay thanks

What is it that other christians such as Orthodox and Protestants lack when they believe that Peter himself isnt the Rock?

Why cant they believe Peter is the rock and foundatin of the church also along with his confession?

Even when Catholics post many quotes from the Fathers who state that Peter is the Rock and foundation of the Church they still deny it and refuse to accept it.

Why is this?
 
Because then they would have to admit that the Catholic Church is right. People are raised and taught to believe their group is right and the Catholic Church is bad. This can be a tough obstacle to overcome, but all things are possible with God (just ask the many converts who post here!).
 
 
Matthew 8:8-10
Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
8 But the centurion answered him, “Lord, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof; but only say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I am a man under authority, with soldiers under me; and I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes, and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes, and to my slave, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” 10 When Jesus heard him, he marveled, and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I say to you, not even in Israel have I found such faith.

So, if it was truly the confession of faith, why did Jesus not give the Keys to the Kingdom to the centurion?
 
Great book by Fr. Stanley Jaki. And On This Rock.
Goes over geography of the area where this happened. Fascinati.g stuff. Also goes o er use of the word rock in OT. No way that website is accurate.
 
Bballer32 said:
Ummmmm… no. Not true at all.

I can give you a few if you want me to but no, this is what many Protestants and Orthodox say but this statement is not true.
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Are there are a few fathers that said this?

can you post them thanks?
 
Paul_theApostle said:
Are there are a few fathers that said this?

can you post them thanks?
Click to expand...
The problem did not exist for over 1,500 years in Christianity. Only when some Church members revolted and practiced heresy did this question arise regarding the rock. And why did it arise? Because of the office of Pope. Those who left the Church rejected the Pope, and so had painted themselves into a corner from which the only escape was to twist the meaning of scripture to fit their argument. They had to change the meaning and nature of rock from noun - Peter (to whom Christ gave the keys to the Kingdom) into a verb (confession of faith). It all traces back to the man-made doctrine of bible alone. Paradoxically the rock, Peter himself, wrote that the ignorant and unstable twist all of the scriptures 2 Peter 3:16. He had also condemned private interpretation of the scriptures in 2 Peter 1:20. All bible alone Christians must violate the bible and engage in this practice because they reject Church authority.

If all Christians only followed the bible, this question would not come up.
 
Paul_theApostle said:
I read this that says the Catholic catechism believes the Rock that the church is built on is Peters confession of faith-

from justforcatholics.org/a88.htm

On the other hand, we can simply understand “rock” to refer to the confession of faith made by Simon Peter. This is not a fanciful Protestant interpretation as some might suppose. Many Church Fathers gave it this meaning, and even the modern Roman Catholic church admits that this is the possible meaning. We read in the Catechism of the Catholic Church: “Moved by the grace of the Holy Spirit and drawn by the Father, we believe in Jesus and confess: ‘You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.’ On the rock of this faith confessed by St Peter, Christ built his Church” (paragraph 424). Truly, the rock is the faith confessed by Peter
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If in Matthew 16 Jesus was building His Church on the “rock” of Peter’s faith, then what was the point of renaming Simon’s name to Peter (“Rock”) in the first place? Pair this with the primacy Peter is shown to have in the New Testament (his name is nearly always given first in the listing of the Apostles; his name is present more than any other Apostle; he is present at all the major events and gives judgment at the first Jerusalem council), and it is easy to recognize Peter as the leader of the early Christian Church.

But it is not an either/or situation, especially for the Early Church Fathers. Remember the context. The Church Fathers did not have Protestants around saying Peter was not head of the Apostles. So, when the Church Fathers were talking about the rock in other ways, they were not trying to refute Peter’s primacy. Indeed, some would refer to the rock as both Peter and his faith, as (I think) St. Augustine did.
 
The other day in my room i was having great doubt over where is the true church and was praying about it

i then left my room and walked into the living room where my mother was watching Jesus of Nazereth,at the moment i walked in exactly i heard Jesus say “And who do you say that i am?”

Where Peter then confesses Jesus to be the Christ and then is called the rock upon the church to be built

Praise God:)
 
Paul_theApostle said:
The other day in my room i was having great doubt over where is the true church and was praying about it

i then left my room and walked into the living room where my mother was watching Jesus of Nazereth,at the moment i walked in exactly i heard Jesus say “And who do you say that i am?”

Where Peter then confesses Jesus to be the Christ and then is called the rock upon the church to be built

Praise God:)
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👍 Looks like your prayers for assurance was answered…there is your assurance that the rock is Peter…🙂
 
pablope said:
👍 Looks like your prayers for assurance was answered…there is your assurance that the rock is Peter…🙂
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i always wished or dreamed i could live in California

Im stuck down under and over it

😛
 
Paul_theApostle said:
Are there are a few fathers that said this?

can you post them thanks?
Click to expand...
yes.

Tertullian of Carthage said:
"The Lord said to Peter, “On this rock I will build my Church, i have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven.” [Mt. 16:18-19]…What kind of ma are you, subverting and changing what was the clear intent of the Lord when he himself conferred this upon Peter? Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys Modesty 21 (c. A.D. 220)].
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…and plenty more just let me know if you need more
 
Bballer32 said:
yes.

Tertullian of Carthage said:

…and plenty more just let me know if you need more
Click to expand...
I thought you meant quotes about Fathers saying the Rock is Peters confession

Ive read plenty about the Rock being Peter himself but am interested in the others about the Rock being the Confession

Isnt there some from Augustine or Chrysostom??
 
“The Rock” was also the stone foundation upon which was built the temple in Jerusalem.

Belief was that the Jerusalem Temple was situated midway between Heaven and Sheol, the dark abode of the dead. It was the top of the temple mount which appeared first after Noah’s flood. This was the center of the universe. The foundation stone upon which the Temple was built was believed to cap off the pit which led to Sheol. This “Rock” upon which the temple was built prevented death, chaos and evil from entering the world.

The Jewish authorities ran the temple. Jesus said that Peter would be the new rock upon which his church would be built, so it is Peter who would be the new authority, standing midway between heaven and Sheol. It was Peter himself who would prevent “The gates of the netherworld” from prevailing. Peter was to be the capstone - the Rock - preventing death, evil and chaos from entering creation.

Nobody had ever been named petros/petra, kepha or rock. It was a literal rock, and it capped off the pit which led to the “Gates of the netherworld”. And it was Peter himself.

This is why any faith which denies the absolute authority and efficacy of the Chair of Peter is not a faith which follows the Bible completely.

-Tim-
 
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