urgent question: fasting before Eucharist

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ciero said:
Vico…I know your a stickler for rules, but I think I’ll stick with the info I have personally received from MANY bishops. And thanks for bringing up the book by H.G. Dimitri (Salachas) as he is one of the bishops I spoke to. Saw him in Athens last summer. His main point to me was yes there are rules and canons, but in reality people have to live in the church. Your not going to hell for observing the holy days and fasting traditions of another Ritual church…no way, no how! So go ahead and knock yourself out quoting all the canons ya like. 😃
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In fact I am following the directions of my hierarchy and pastor, which are in agreement with the canons.
 
ConstantineTG said:
But how can you truthfully say in your letter of petition that you have found the spirituality of the Church more advantageous for you if you haven’t immersed yourself in that spirituality?
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The only thing I can think of that a Latin Catholic cannot do without being a member of an eastern Catholic church is the reception of certain sacraments according to the eastern rituals and disciplines, and of not being obligated to assist on one set of holy days vs another. This amounts (in the USA) to:

Latin:
Feast of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary
**Solemnity of Mary, Mother of God **
All Saints
Thursday of the sixth week of Easter: the Ascension (or Sunday for some Latins)
Byzantine:
Epiphany (Baptism of Christ) = Theophany
Solemnity of Sts. Peter and Paul, Apostles
Feast of the Annunciation (if Ukrainian)

And Ash Wednesday vs Clean Monday.

However, one can always observe both, and also a more severe fasting, without ascription.

One should also support their church sui iuris also.

There are many reasons for requesting transfer. Since the patrimony is a constituent of the person, it is not normal to transfer ritual churches, but is approved for spiritual good. The more likely approved transfers are due to marriage, and since the CCEO was published and the rescript to the Latin CIC was made, it is not likely to be approved for transfer from the eastern to Latin Church or from one eastern to another, and most especially so in the middle east.
 
Vico said:
In fact I am following the directions of my hierarchy and pastor, which are in agreement with the canons.
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Maybe your pastor…and unless H.G. William has changed his tune since he moved to Passaic I doubt your following your bishop. 😃 Bishop William at least while in Phoenix, was Very much a proponent of stay in your Ritual church on paper…& practice where you want. I have discussed this with him personally on more then 1 occasion.
 
ciero said:
Maybe your pastor…and unless H.G. William has changed his tune since he moved to Passaic I doubt your following your bishop. 😃 Bishop William at least while in Phoenix, was Very much a proponent of stay in your Ritual church on paper…& practice where you want. I have discussed this with him personally on more then 1 occasion.
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Read post #53 to see what Byzantine Metropolitan Basil Myron Schott said about the issue, that the canons do regulate, and the praxis is not up to the norm, and that that book is recommended to all Catholics. (If one obtains permission from their own bishop then they have been given a personal variance, but it can not be assumed.)
 
Vico said:
Read post #53 to see what Byzantine Metropolitan Basil Myron Schott said about the issue, that the canons do regulate, and the praxis is not up to the norm, and that that book is recommended to all Catholics. (If one obtains permission from their own bishop then they have been given a personal variance, but it can not be assumed.)
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According to the Byzantine bishops and Latin bishops I spoke to there is an agreement among the bishops here in the US that yes it can be assumed. I believe this also hold true for Canada as well, but I’m not 100% on that. 😃 (I did NOT speak to H.G. Basil).
 
ciero said:
According to the Byzantine bishops and Latin bishops I spoke to there is an agreement among the bishops here in the US that yes it can be assumed. I believe this also hold true for Canada as well, but I’m not 100% on that. 😃 (I did NOT speak to H.G. Basil).
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My Byzantine pastor, even this season, announced the fasting rules for our Byzantine parish and stated that Latins that attend there should follow the Latin rules, and the Byzantines the Byzantine rules.

I called the Latin chancery, I believe it was in 2009, and the answer was that a Latin is to follow the Latin rules for fasting and holy days.

The USCCB site gives the complimentary norms and there is no mention of any agreement there between churches sui iuris in the USA. (1983, 1984, 1991, and 1999 dates)

An example of the wording there is:

“On December 13, 1991 the members of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops of the United States of American made the following general decree concerning holy days of obligation for Latin rite Catholics…”

usccb.org/norms/12521253.htm
usccb.org/norms/1246.htm

The USCCB includes the eastern bishops of the USA also, in Region XV.
 
Vico said:
My Byzantine pastor, even this season, announced the fasting rules for our Byzantine parish and stated that Latins that attend there should follow the Latin rules, and the Byzantines the Byzantine rules.

I called the Latin chancery, I believe it was in 2009, and the answer was that a Latin is to follow the Latin rules for fasting and holy days.

The USCCB site gives the complimentary norms and there is no mention of any agreement there between churches sui iuris in the USA. (1983, 1984, 1991, and 1999 dates)

An example of the wording there is:

“On December 13, 1991 the members of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops of the United States of American made the following general decree concerning holy days of obligation for Latin rite Catholics…”

usccb.org/norms/12521253.htm
usccb.org/norms/1246.htm

The USCCB includes the eastern bishops of the USA also, in Region XV.
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I think I’ll stick with the advise given to me by MANY bishops, rather then an armchair canonist. 😃 Makes absolutely no sense to tell people they need to embrace a tradition they want to join, then tell them they are bound to another set of canons entirely. Or to tell people there is no reason to change Ritual churches, just attend where you most feel at home…then tell them you need to keep the rules of another church…Even the bishops aren’t that dumb…are they Vico? 😉

I’ll be seeing Bishop Gerald (Dino) this evening…I’ll be sure to get his opinion, as well as if each individual needs their bishops approval before taking such a step.
 
ciero said:
I think I’ll stick with the advise given to me by MANY bishops, rather then an armchair canonist. 😃 Makes absolutely no sense to tell people they need to embrace a tradition they want to join, then tell them they are bound to another set of canons entirely. Or to tell people there is no reason to change Ritual churches, just attend where you most feel at home…then tell them you need to keep the rules of another church…Even the bishops aren’t that dumb…are they Vico? 😉

I’ll be seeing Bishop Gerald (Dino) this evening…I’ll be sure to get his opinion, as well as if each individual needs their bishops approval before taking such a step.
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It is not me saying these things, it is from the book endorsed by the Byzantine Metropolitan Bishop and my Byzantine pastor, and the Latin Church in the same area (chancery). This is what the Church has approved.
 
Vico said:
It is not me saying these things, it is from the book endorsed by the Byzantine Metropolitan Bishop and my Byzantine pastor, and the Latin Church in the same area (chancery). This is what the Church has approved.
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I guess we agree to disagree! 😃
 
ciero said:
I guess we agree to disagree! 😃
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I do not know what you mean. Do you believe it is only my opinion that I have posted and not the advice of the Metropolitan?

Or do you disagree that the Metropolitan has recommended that the faithful use the book I posted reference to, and which contains the material I posted here? (You can read his quote to this end in the book itself, for verification.)
 
Vico said:
I do not know what you mean. Do you believe it is only my opinion that I have posted and not the advice of the Metropolitan?

Or do you disagree that the Metropolitan has recommended that the faithful use the book I posted reference to, and which contains the material I posted here? (You can read his quote to this end in the book itself, for verification.)
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In case you haven’t noticed Vico…Met. Basil is DEAD :eek:! So anything he said really has no bearing on things. I will stick to the advice give by real living breathing bishops. And just the same Met. Basil’s opinion isn’t really any better then any other bishop.
 
ciero said:
In case you haven’t noticed Vico…Met. Basil is DEAD :eek:! So anything he said really has no bearing on things. I will stick to the advice give by real living breathing bishops. And just the same Met. Basil’s opinion isn’t really any better then any other bishop.
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By that same logic, St Peter is dead… So also is St. Paul… scrap the new testament.
Pope John Paul II is dead… scrap the CIC and CCEO.

Your logic, sir, is flawed, badly.

As metropolitan, his thinking was and is important, and until the book is withdrawn, still the advice of the USCCB…
 
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