US Bishops' Conference Largely Disappointed by Debt Ceiling Agreement

[iamrefreshed]

I too agree that helping people move to self sufficient should always be the goal - but things like school lunches for kids that come from families who are struggling, .

I remember my free lunches in school. Much better way to distribute help to children than giving their parent a check. In my case, the check would have ended up being bet on a horserace. That’s why we needed free lunch to start with.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

I remember my free lunches in school. Much better way to distribute help to children than giving their parent a check. In my case, the check would have ended up being bet on a horserace. That’s why we needed free lunch to start with.

I’ve posted this link in several other threads:
9wsyr.com/content/news/real_deal/story/200-per-child-for-school-supplies-The-Real-Deal/5K-xR9qIFUGXyHpwWtrEQw.cspx

Also, I know people looking to quit their jobs in urban schools.

 

[4elise]

Interesting article which I thought lends itself to our topic…

We Can’t Even Cut Programs That Don’t Work … by Steven Malanga
realclearmarkets.com/articles/2011/08/10/we_cant_even_cut_programs_that_dont_work_99176.html

the advocacy community and members of Congress in both parties revolted, refusing to consider any such evidenced-based grantmaking.

This is much of the issue - what is the job of Congress - for most, it boils down to ‘get re-elected’.

 

[4elise]

No one here is saying that “the system” should be eliminated.

The issues is that these are public funds.

So how else should it be funded? Do you believe it could be done by philanthropy alone?

 

[4elise]

Well there’s Jealousy, Lying and Stealing - you can’t tell me that a good number of people on welfare could at least try to reduce their burdens on society?

So you are saying that those in need should be cut off because ‘a good number’ are guilty of lying and stealing? I am thinking jealousy you are implying is where the class issue is.

If this is true should Catholic Charities also stop providing care to the poor?

 

[ComputerGeek25]

So how else should it be funded? Do you believe it could be done by philanthropy alone?

Never said/implied it would be done by philanthropy alone or where you get this from. However, what I am implying is that there needs to be government accountibility for how it spends its funds and the desired results.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

So you are saying that those in need should be cut off because ‘a good number’ are guilty of lying and stealing? I am thinking jealousy you are implying is where the class issue is.

If this is true should Catholic Charities also stop providing care to the poor?

You are not willing to listen to what I (or anyone else) is saying. Do you agree that there is a fair bit of waste and fraud (even you admitted this) in government programs? If so, isn’t fraud stealing and lying? And isn’t it because people want more things than they already have?

 

[4elise]

Never called anyone a ‘welfare queen’.

It is my experience that people who make such false accusations and hold such a high opinion of government handouts are people not involved in direct care with the poor.

I find that one of the things that is difficult about thread communication is that replies are often taken out of context - I did not say YOU called anyone a ‘welfare queen’ -

Apparently you and I have had different experience. That is not surprising because we are not the same people.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Nice! Demonize those who disagree with you. I will have to share this with those I work with in my charitable organizations. They will enjoy a good chuckle.

Maybe they will. I sure did. I try not to get offended anymore.

The people at Our Lady’s Inn where I volunteer hold their guests accountable for their behavior. They hate government programs because they see the effects of it every day in the homeless mothers and pregnant women who come there for shelter and guidance.

People tend to broad brush us conservatives as not caring about the poor because we don’t like federal government programs. It arises out of the faulty notion that people who disagree with liberals do are evil, greedy, and selfish. It’s faulty because conservatives tend to give more to charity and do more charitable work than liberals, who believe the government should do their charity work for them.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

I find that one of the things that is difficult about thread communication is that replies are often taken out of context - I did not say YOU called anyone a ‘welfare queen’ -

Apparently you and I have had different experience. That is not surprising because we are not the same people.

So, it’s ok to commit fraud?

Would it be ok for me to quit my job, go on food stanps, and impregnate women knowing that I can’t take care of the children?

 

[4elise]

I remember my free lunches in school. Much better way to distribute help to children than giving their parent a check. In my case, the check would have ended up being bet on a horserace. That’s why we needed free lunch to start with.

And this is the point isn’t it - you KNOW free lunches work because that was your experience, others who talk about the needs of healthcare, communities, often speak from personal experience - we have to be open to the idea that you, and the others, children today, the poor served by programs funded by the federal government, are too - like you in need and that it makes a difference. I for one am thrilled that my (my parents?) taxes helped you as a kid.

seeing people as individuals is what makes sense - and I think the point of this entire thread.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

And this is the point isn’t it - you KNOW free lunches work because that was your experience, others who talk about the needs of healthcare, communities, often speak from personal experience - we have to be open to the idea that you, and the others, children today, the poor served by programs funded by the federal government, are too - like you in need and that it makes a difference. I for one am thrilled that my (my parents?) taxes helped you as a kid.

Free lunches do work to an extent.

But how do we get it so people no longer need free lunches?

 

[Ridgerunner]

.

People tend to broad brush us conservatives as not caring about the poor because we don’t like federal government programs. It arises out of the faulty notion that people who disagree with liberals do are evil, greedy, and selfish. It’s faulty because conservatives tend to give more to charity and do more charitable work than liberals, who believe the government should do their charity work for them.

It would be a mistake to believe the liberals do anything for the truly poor. They owned the U.S. government lock, stock and barrel for going on two years and what did they do for the neediest of all, those on SSI; the disabled poor? Nothing. Well, they did cut back on food stamp allotments to SSI recipients in group homes and ISLs. They did do that. Guess maybe it saved a little money that could be spent on abortions here and abroad to prevent the birth of more developmentally disabled people.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

It would be a mistake to believe the liberals do anything for the truly poor. They owned the U.S. government lock, stock and barrel for going on two years and what did they do for the neediest of all, those on SSI; the disabled poor? Nothing. Well, they did cut back on food stamp allotments to SSI recipients in group homes and ISLs. They did do that. Guess maybe it saved a little money that could be spent on abortions here and abroad to prevent the birth of more developmentally disabled people.

Even then, I know some people that could work, even part time at menial jobs, but choose not too - because it would drasically affect their government benefits.

 

[iamrefreshed]

And this is the point isn’t it - you KNOW free lunches work because that was your experience, others who talk about the needs of healthcare, communities, often speak from personal experience - we have to be open to the idea that you, and the others, children today, the poor served by programs funded by the federal government, are too - like you in need and that it makes a difference. I for one am thrilled that my (my parents?) taxes helped you as a kid.

seeing people as individuals is what makes sense - and I think the point of this entire thread.

You or (your parents) didn’t help me as a kid. My father knew I would get fed by someone else so he felt he didn’t need to bother doing it.

You helped him gamble.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Well there’s Jealousy, Lying and Stealing - you can’t tell me that a good number of people on welfare could at least try to reduce their burdens on society?

Computer Geek-
Don’t you know only conservatives are evil, greedy, and selfish? Government and poor people don’t suffer from the Fall.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

You or (your parents) didn’t help me as a kid. My father knew I would get fed by someone else so he felt he didn’t need to bother doing it.

You helped him gamble.

Libs don’t seem to understand this.

I know several people who work in a school district in an urban setting. Many of them would like to quit. Mainly because they have no parent or community buy in or accountibilty. Parents don’t see the value in education or discipline and pass this onto their kids - they know the government will always be there to feed and clothe them so they see no value in getting an education or a job. No matter how much money they throw at the teachers, schools, etc. this problem won’t be fixed until you get full accountibility from parents.

Again, I agree it could be worse if we didn’t throw any money, but it sure could be a lot better.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Computer Geek-
Don’t you know only conservatives are evil, greedy, and selfish? Government and poor people don’t suffer from the Fall.

Yes, I know.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Even then, I know some people that could work, even part time at menial jobs, but choose not too - because it would drasically affect their government benefits.

When Obama got elected, several of our workers quit or let themselves get fired. When I expressed regret to one of the workers that got fired because she took off too many days because of her son, she said, “I’m not worried, Obama is gonna take care of me, he’s gonna pay for my car, he’s gonna buy me a house, he’s gonna pay for my gas.” Single mom, pregnant with no 2. No job. Not even the minimum wage job she had when she worked for us.

Working for a company that hires people who have never had jobs and don’t need a high school diploma is a real eye-opener.

Apparently some people not too worried about not having a job. How can that be?

 

[goldangel]

It would be a mistake to believe the liberals do anything for the truly poor. They owned the U.S. government lock, stock and barrel for going on two years and what did they do for the neediest of all, those on SSI; the disabled poor? Nothing. Well, they did cut back on food stamp allotments to SSI recipients in group homes and ISLs. They did do that. Guess maybe it saved a little money that could be spent on abortions here and abroad to prevent the birth of more developmentally disabled people.

In my opinion, Republicans and Democrats alike are united in ignoring what it takes to help people with severe mental illness. Just look at anything psychiatrist E. Fuller Torrey says on the subject. In the 80s hospital beds were closed in huge numbers in a process called deinstitutionalization. Community support was supposed to make the difference; it didn’t. The states never came up with the money.

There are basically two groups of people with severe mental illness; those with enough money to live in stable situations and pursue private treatment, which is far superior to public treatment, and those who don’t have that. The picture is much better if you have money. Compliance is better if you have money b/c your doctors will be better listeners, not as swamped, more respectful and etc. Your access to medication is better if you have money. Your life expectancy is better if you have money given that the atypical antipsychotics are associated with higher diabetes risk and it takes money and access to better foods and medical treatment to deal with that, or with diabetes if you have it.

It can be a catch-22 b/c people with severe mental illness often do better if they can work (paid or volunteer if paid is not possible) at least part-time but if they don’t have effective treatment they remain so ill this is not possible. On the one hand you don’t want to tell people their lives are over b/c they are ill and they can’t go to school or work or do anything to improve. On the other hand a lot of people end up in jail/prison for nonviolent crimes like disturbing the peace b/c they have no where else to go, shelters won’t take them for very long and the psychiatric hospitals for people who can’'t pay much are by and large closed except on very short-term emergency stabilization basis.

The alternative is privately funded treatment and based on personal experience it really upsets me how much worse the prognosis is when you don’t have access to that.