US Bishops Support Universal Health Care [2009-07-21] [Zenit]

[Trader]

Here is another myth propagated by President Obama, that employers owe their employees health care.

WRONG! Employers owe their employees wages that are proportionate to the value of the work they perform and that is freely agreed to by both parties. Employment is a contract between the employer and the employee where both have duties to each other. The part of compensation that is cash or non-cash benefits is a matter of negotiation between the parties or their representatives. Both wage payers and wage earners have a responsibility to act prudently and live within their means, even if that requires a change in behavior.

I would like to ask the President if he would pay a teenage babysitter or the junior high student who mows his lawn enough to support a family.

 

[mdgspencer]

I don’t see any evidence that this is a letter from the “U. S. Bishops.” It is signed and sent by one bishop, and sent to one member of congress. For any statement to be an official statement by the U. S. bishops, it has to be voted on and formally approved by the U.S. bishops during one of their meetings in Washington, D.C. The bishops have said that committee statements of positions cannot be released by a committee without such a vote. But this isn’t even a committee statement, but a letter from one person to another person. I presume that he didn’t mean it for public release at all (and that the recipient gave this to the media), since he actually does not represent the U.S. bishops. He may find the public release of this letter very embarrassing in fact.

 

[Jim_Kite]

Welcome to euthanasia,-- U.S. BISHOPS. The unnread vague HEALTH CARE PLAN,? does include for older persons, and for those not rich enough to pay for private care as they get older, no treatment in the plan. The plan’s motto is–“TOO OLD-TOO SICK–TOO EXPENSIVE” for government to pay for. U.S. Bishops should know what they are saying by pushing for Obama and for the socialist, antiChrist government before backing up a part of a plan that has ulterior motives.
As a retired physician with at least 38 years expeience in the changes of medicine and observing what it is like in England,Canada, and Australia, the present plan is geared for EUTHANASIA AND ALREADY ENDORSING WORLD WIDE ABORTION.
I HOPE THAT WE AREN’T TALKING ABOUT THE AMERICAN BISHOPS IN THIS CATEGORY.
I never based my practice on ability to pay. This plan puts everyone, (except the politicians, wealthy, BIshops included,)- in a long waiting line where reduced care and accessibility is prevalent. Billions already on the agenda for reduced hospital care is there.
I don’t believe the Bishops graduated from Harvard Law school, where the push for universal laws, that they haven’t seen the content of ,and, only see the periphery of the consequences ! They must be swayed by this “educated” speaker who never reads what ever crosses his desk and signs it with a smile.

 

[Francis92201]

Have a link to support your argument? I am not saying you are wrong but others that are not aware of this could use the information.

However, your point is one of many reasons it needs to be overhauled.

By the way do not forget the majority of HMO, PPO et are offered by private health insurance companies.

You will ALWAYS find exceptions to the rule.I posit this:the average Canadian in addition to living longer and enjoying better health than his American cousin is generally satisfied with Canadian Health Care yet the American is NOT satisfied with American Heath Care.I watched your president last night;49,000,000 THAT’s 49 MILLION of your countrymen have NO health care PERIOD.As a Catholic I find the "I’m alright Jack"attitude of those fortunate enough to be insured to be repugnant and the antithesis of what Christ taught on the Sermon on the Mount.I note ONCE AGAIN that people have plenty of anecdotal stories,"some of my best friends are Canadian and they say…"And gee,I seem to recall Mr. Obama quoting quite a few horror stories about private insurance in the U.S…I recall something about a woman who paid 700 dollars a month for private insurance which REFUSED to cover her bills when she contracted cancer,or the man who lost his insurance when he lost his job and woke up in the hospital 10,000 dollars in debt.See i can come up with horror stories too…your president provided them.

By the way quite a few of my Canadian compatriots are pretty chubby too.We have been known to while away the hours in Timmies sucking back Canada’s national food the almighty DOUGHNUT.As far as obesity goes you ain’t got nothing on us.

OK, please bear with me all of you…I love reading all of your thoughts…this is the first time I have ever done this. The polls say that 80% of Americans are satisfied with their health care plan. The 49M you refer to include illegal aliens illegal, people who CHOOSE not to have a health care plan, etc…a deceptive number. Please don’t believe everything that Obama says (in fact, don’t believe ANYTHING he says)…the Dems love to parade out emotional, heart-wrenching cases…they thrive on it! I live in an area that has many Canadians during the “season” who flood the specialists’ offices to the point that locals have a hard time getting an appointment and they have many stories to tell. I can parade out as many anecdotal horrible stories of lack of timely care under the Canadian health care system as you can about the American system. The U.S. has the best system in the world (Americans don’t go to Canada for health care).YES, the insurance industry needs reform…not the health care system. No one disagrees with that, right, left, Dems or GOP’s. But the plan that Obama and his minions have proposed is totally Socialist and nothing more than a power grab…and Socialism is anti Christian and anti Catholic in that it puts the power over individual’s lives in the hands of man and not God.
God bless all of you…I love the dialog!

 

[Janet_S]

Welcome to euthanasia,-- U.S. BISHOPS. The unnread vague HEALTH CARE PLAN,? does include for older persons, and for those not rich enough to pay for private care as they get older, no treatment in the plan. The plan’s motto is–“TOO OLD-TOO SICK–TOO EXPENSIVE” for government to pay for.

That’s one of the things that bothers me too. But don’t you expect that the Dems will pick and choose which costly diseases they exclude? HIV for example. It’s an expensive disease to manage, but can you imagine the Dems denying this group treatment? It will never happen. They might not give much thought to withholding treatment for grandma and grandpa, but to gay men–that’s another story.

 

[elgar]

That’s one of the things that bothers me too. But don’t you expect that the Dems will pick and choose which costly diseases they exclude? HIV for example. It’s an expensive disease to manage, but can you imagine the Dems denying this group treatment? It will never happen. They might not give much thought to withholding treatment for grandma and grandpa, but to gay men–that’s another story.

Boy, you sure hit that one on the head. With all the emphasis on prevention, we’ll hear nothing about ways to prevent HIV and AIDS unless free condoms are part of the healthcare package. The latex industry has everything to gain with those in control of the congress and presidency.

 

[Soutane]

I don’t understand why these discussions about the US healthcare system always turn into a Canadian system bash session. It’s pretty funny actually Truthfully, do what you guys want. Doesn’t bother me in the slightest. I’m just glad I live here.

I have no stats or links just personal experience. I really like the peace our system gives me. In an emergency money is the last thing I want to think about. I never consider the cost if a procedure is needed. I don’t have to stress over another monthly bill, which if I don’t pay could cost me dearly. I have absolutely no complaints in the care I, my children, my parents and brothers and sisters or grandparents have received. Seriously, I have not personally been told of one horror story from someone I know.

Windsor is Windsor people, a world of it’s own because of the casinos and American kids coming over to drink underage according to your laws. I can’t comment on their hospitals because I have no personal experience with them. Two hours away you’ll find London, where I live. Our city is considered a Healthcare hub and our hospitals have a very good rep. Again, I have no stats or details. I just know that it works here, very, very well.

Theresa truer words were never spoken.That’s why I withdrew from this discussion a month ago.Make a comment about universal health care and many Americans seem to become hysterical,unhinged and indulge in the most calumnous mischaracterisations of of Canadian Health Care.Witness the televised mayhem and screaming that accompanied all their much vaunted “discussions”(read:screaming matches)at their town hall meetings.

The IRREFUTABLE bottom line is that Canadians live on average TWO and ONE-HALF YEARS longer and that our health and quality of life are on average superior.Last year 22,000 Americans DIED of treatable illnesses because they had no health insurance or access to health care.(Sourcerofessor of Medecine who appeared within last two weeks on CNN).Don’t bother arguing with them,just enjoy that extra 2.5 years and never worry about selling your home to pay for your,your husbands,or your child(rens) life or death health care.

It’s their mess,they created it.Let them fix it.I only got involved because of all the lies,mischaracterisations and “annecdotes” of the "my cousin’s nephew’s girlfriend’s stepmother said…"variety.The Canadian Health care system with universal access saved my life the same day the condition was diagnosed.

I also am TRULY grateful to God that I live here.The U.S. is a nice place to visit but I wouldn’t want to live there.

 

[mpi]

Theresa truer words were never spoken.That’s why I withdrew from this discussion a month ago.Make a comment about universal health care and many Americans seem to become hysterical,unhinged and indulge in the most calumnous mischaracterisations of of Canadian Health Care.Witness the televised mayhem and screaming that accompanied all their much vaunted “discussions”(read:screaming matches)at their town hall meetings.

The IRREFUTABLE bottom line is that Canadians live on average TWO and ONE-HALF YEARS longer and that our health and quality of life are on average superior.Last year 22,000 Americans DIED of treatable illnesses because they had no health insurance or access to health care.(Sourcerofessor of Medecine who appeared within last two weeks on CNN).Don’t bother arguing with them,just enjoy that extra 2.5 years and never worry about selling your home to pay for your,your husbands,or your child(rens) life or death health care.

It’s their mess,they created it.Let them fix it.I only got involved because of all the lies,mischaracterisations and “annecdotes” of the "my cousin’s nephew’s girlfriend’s stepmother said…"variety.The Canadian Health care system with universal access saved my life the same day the condition was diagnosed.

I also am TRULY grateful to God that I live here.The U.S. is a nice place to visit but I wouldn’t want to live there.

I’ll REFUTE your life expectancy numbers. No country in the world counts live births the way the US does. This is why infant mortality is higher, and life expectancy lower in the US. In the US, babies with almost no chance of survival are counted as live births and death certificates are issued. In other countries these babies are called “still born” because they don’t want to “waste” health resources on these fragile children to keep them alive.

I know it and you know it.

 

[estesbob]

Theresa truer words were never spoken.That’s why I withdrew from this discussion a month ago.Make a comment about universal health care and many Americans seem to become hysterical,unhinged and indulge in the most calumnous mischaracterisations of of Canadian Health Care.Witness the televised mayhem and screaming that accompanied all their much vaunted “discussions”(read:screaming matches)at their town hall meetings.

The IRREFUTABLE bottom line is that Canadians live on average TWO and ONE-HALF YEARS longer and that our health and quality of life are on average superior.Last year 22,000 Americans DIED of treatable illnesses because they had no health insurance or access to health care.(Sourcerofessor of Medecine who appeared within last two weeks on CNN).Don’t bother arguing with them,just enjoy that extra 2.5 years and never worry about selling your home to pay for your,your husbands,or your child(rens) life or death health care.

It’s their mess,they created it.Let them fix it.I only got involved because of all the lies,mischaracterisations and “annecdotes” of the "my cousin’s nephew’s girlfriend’s stepmother said…"variety.The Canadian Health care system with universal access saved my life the same day the condition was diagnosed.

I also am TRULY grateful to God that I live here.The U.S. is a nice place to visit but I wouldn’t want to live there.

The 22,000 figure is bogus. It counted the death of every person who died that did not have health insurance. utter nonsense.

Canadians have a higher life expectancy becuase they throw in the trash premature children that the United States tries to save . Canada doesnt count their deaths in figuring infant mortality -the US does.

 

[Soutane]

The 22,000 figure is bogus. It counted the death of every person who died that did not have health insurance. utter nonsense.

Canadians have a higher life expectancy becuase they throw in the trash premature children that the United States tries to save . Canada doesnt count their deaths in figuring infant mortality -the US does.

"The 22,000 figure is bogus. It counted the death of every person who died that did not have health insurance."Duh,wasn’t that my point exactly…my point also included that they ALL died(as YOUR news media reported)of TREATABLE conditiions,i.e. if they had access to health care through universality or if they weren’t POOR and could afford to pay for treatment they would still be alive.

Any port in a storm eh Estabob?The 22,000 figure was reported on YOUR National News Programs…you know …the ones at 6:30 pm,ABC,CBS,NBC.Check out the world health organization figures and weeep. Some Americans can’t stand it when their wrong.Keep believing your delusions and fantasies if it gives you comfort

"Canadians have a higher life expectancy because they throw in the trash premature children that the United States tries to save."A calumnous lie and worthy of the TRULY desperate.Strawman,Estabob,strawman.Some Americans love to bash Canada,Canadians,and our Health care system but they sure don’t like when Canadians bash back…something about being able to dish it out but not being able to take it?You’re just proving the rule.Pathetic,yet somehow amusing.

 

[Soutane]

I’ll REFUTE your life expectancy numbers. No country in the world counts live births the way the US does. This is why infant mortality is higher, and life expectancy lower in the US. In the US, babies with almost no chance of survival are counted as live births and death certificates are issued. In other countries these babies are called “still born” because they don’t want to “waste” health resources on these fragile children to keep them alive.

I know it and you know it.

Still waiting for you to refute my assertion with documentation through recognised sources,not more personal annecdotes.You assertion is the only thing that’s bogus here and it REEKS of desperation.Ever hear of the sin of calumny?It appears in the Catechism.I’d look it up if I were you.

“I know it and you know it”.You’re very cute when you get angry.

 

[Cider]

oh, yea

US bishops support the right of the Gov for force everyone to purchase health INSURANCE or be fined.

This isn’t about CARE at all, it’s about INSURANCE.

 

[Soutane]

The sound of crickets…in the distance a sceen door slams…a baby whimpers and a dog barks…YAWN.

 

[Irish_Tom]

No, it doesn’t. First of all, it says that health reform must exclude abortion coverage, Obama’s proposal does not meet that criteria. So far, Obama and Pelosi have resisted any attempts to exclude abortion coverage.

Secondly, it says that it must be “fair and just”, that is fine, but what exactly constitutes fairness and justice.

Access to food and shelter must be fair and just too. But does that mean that the government must own and operate all the grocery stores and realtor offices?

Does it mean that someone being able to afford steak while another can only afford hamburger is unjust?

And besides, nothing Obama is proposing qualifies as universal health care. It cannot until abortion is made illegal. While abotion remains legal, an entire segment of the population (the unborn) is deliberately excluded from healthcare. That rules out this being ‘unversal’ by definition.

As an Australian I could not agree with you more. Irish Tom

 

[Sonny1954]

The Bishops’ statement is encouraging, but ultimately futile.

Unlike some other posters on this thread, I have a skeptical mind. I believe that most American citizens want universal health coverage, though they disagree on the means. But very rich and powerful players in this drama do NOT want health care reform. The current system is lucrative for them and they will block attempts at fundamental reform. Anything that comes out of Congress will be window dressing and, I suspect, will not include universal coverage.

These powerful interests and the congressmen they have bought and paid for are resurrecting out-worn slogans like “socialize medicine” and “government healthcare” to spread fear of reform among the populace. In the end, our health care delivery system will remain what it is now: insurance company accountants deciding what doctor you can see, what the doctor can prescribe, and how long you may remain in the hospital.

One thing I really, honestly do not understand is why is it “better” to have insurance company accountants make those decisions than for doctors to make them under government guidelines? In the jargon of the current anti-reform frenzy, I must be a “Pinko”.