J
US Bishops Support Universal Health Care [2009-07-21] [Zenit]
- Status
R
Ridgerunner
Guest
My reaction exactly. I live in a small town in the Ozarks, for goodness sake; not exactly the center of the medical universe, and we have had MRI here for at least 15 years, maybe longer. The next small town about 10 miles east of here has one too. Windsor metro area has over 300,000 people and they just got two five years ago???
S
Soutane
Guest
No,we got the second one five years ago.In order to participate in cogent debate and be taken seriously it is necessary to pay attention.
T
TeresaAnn
Guest
I don’t understand why these discussions about the US healthcare system always turn into a Canadian system bash session. It’s pretty funny actually 
Truthfully, do what you guys want. Doesn’t bother me in the slightest. I’m just glad I live here.
I have no stats or links just personal experience. I really like the peace our system gives me. In an emergency money is the last thing I want to think about. I never consider the cost if a procedure is needed. I don’t have to stress over another monthly bill, which if I don’t pay could cost me dearly. I have absolutely no complaints in the care I, my children, my parents and brothers and sisters or grandparents have received. Seriously, I have not personally been told of one horror story from someone I know.
Windsor is Windsor people, a world of it’s own because of the casinos and American kids coming over to drink underage according to your laws. I can’t comment on their hospitals because I have no personal experience with them. Two hours away you’ll find London, where I live. Our city is considered a Healthcare hub and our hospitals have a very good rep. Again, I have no stats or details. I just know that it works here, very, very well.
Truthfully, do what you guys want. Doesn’t bother me in the slightest. I’m just glad I live here.I have no stats or links just personal experience. I really like the peace our system gives me. In an emergency money is the last thing I want to think about. I never consider the cost if a procedure is needed. I don’t have to stress over another monthly bill, which if I don’t pay could cost me dearly. I have absolutely no complaints in the care I, my children, my parents and brothers and sisters or grandparents have received. Seriously, I have not personally been told of one horror story from someone I know.
Windsor is Windsor people, a world of it’s own because of the casinos and American kids coming over to drink underage according to your laws. I can’t comment on their hospitals because I have no personal experience with them. Two hours away you’ll find London, where I live. Our city is considered a Healthcare hub and our hospitals have a very good rep. Again, I have no stats or details. I just know that it works here, very, very well.
J
jean29
Guest
neil,
Check out the health Care in Canada and England.
Under ‘O’ plan we will have Socialized Medicine.
You can go on a waiting list to get the care you need.
Watch Fox News for the lastest report.
We will not be able to see a speicialist for our medical needs. Unless you go on a (Waiting List)
How many young people will want to become a doctors?
Have you read ‘Liberation Theology?’ Read it! Obamas sat in Jeremiah’s Wright’s for twenty years listening to his nonsense. In fact J. Wright said he hated America.
Be informed,
jean
J
josephdavid
Guest
Gee… perhaps some people will repeat debunked talking points over and over in hopes it will become true.neil,
Check out the health Care in Canada and England.
Under ‘O’ plan we will have Socialized Medicine.
You can go on a waiting list to get the care you need.
Watch Fox News for the lastest report.
We will not be able to see a speicialist for our medical needs. Unless you go on a (Waiting List)
How many young people will want to become a doctors?
Have you read ‘Liberation Theology?’ Read it! Obamas sat in Jeremiah’s Wright’s for twenty years listening to his nonsense. In fact J. Wright said he hated America.
Be informed,
jean
N
nordskoven
Guest
Uh, other non-Catholic congregations have organized Christian Care Medi-Share, a letter that enrolls non-smoking members in a health collective that coordinates voluntary paying of each others’ bills. The Bishops need to forfeit their tax-exempt status for phoning in pastoral care–pawned off on the government. If the U.S. Catholic Bishops can scrape up a coupla three billion to pay hush money to victims of sexual assault they can manage to finance some health care scheme for the needy. Find me one Catholic hospital that has moved IN to a low-income area…This isn’t Canada, this is corrupt America and if and when we clean up the billions of MediCare fraud, THEN talk about cost shifting.
Ask a Vet about government health care from Uncle Sam. Catholic hospitals will be forced to offer abortion per the draft proposal. Abortion will be paid for by the government. And to pay for the projected shortfall, home health care will be cut so granny will be in the highly-profitable and generally repulsive nursing home system, suitable actions for the former slumlord lawyer, Obama as Hillary reported. And speaking of Hillary, her healthcare forum proposed jail time for the sick who went to private physicians. These are sick control freaks not humanitarians. Bishops, you first, like Congress–get socialized then inflict the system on us after YOU try it for a few years. GOD HELP US!
Ask a Vet about government health care from Uncle Sam. Catholic hospitals will be forced to offer abortion per the draft proposal. Abortion will be paid for by the government. And to pay for the projected shortfall, home health care will be cut so granny will be in the highly-profitable and generally repulsive nursing home system, suitable actions for the former slumlord lawyer, Obama as Hillary reported. And speaking of Hillary, her healthcare forum proposed jail time for the sick who went to private physicians. These are sick control freaks not humanitarians. Bishops, you first, like Congress–get socialized then inflict the system on us after YOU try it for a few years. GOD HELP US!
R
Ridgerunner
Guest
In an effort to be more attentive and cogent, I find it a remarkable accomplishment that Windsor, with its 300,000 metro area population, got its second MRI five years ago. I now wonder whether it ever acquired a third, or whether that’s still pending.
O
o_mlly
Guest
The statement: “US Bishops Support Universal Health Care” is not the same as: “US Bishops Support Universal Health Insurance.” The prior claim is an end; the latter an instrument. The bishops are in there area of expertise to claim the former; not the latter.
Peace,
O’Malley
E
estesbob
Guest
Probably right after they get their 5th x-ray macnine…In an effort to be more attentive and cogent, I find it a remarkable accomplishment that Windsor, with its 300,000 metro area population, got its second MRI five years ago. I now wonder whether it ever acquired a third, or whether that’s still pending.
M
mpi
Guest
There is a difference between supporting Obamacare and Universal Health Care. The former leads to more funding foe abortion and some Catholics may be sinning by supporting by Obamacare.
T
Timbothefiveth
Guest
. It sais a universal medical care plan. It didn’t say Obama’s plan. In fact, we might be required to oppose that plan if it funds abortions, or euthanasia, etc.
D
Debra_C
Guest
No. That is not what they said. You should read the whole letter, AND information regarding what is covered in the health plan. The Church has said health care is a basic human right. That does NOT necessarily mean that Obama’s plan is in concert with catholic teaching. In fact, the bishops also warned they are strongly opposed to any healthcare plan that includes funding for abortion or euthanasia or that does not allow for health care workers to refuse to participate in an abortion or euthanasia, t current, it seems that Obama’s plan may fail all those tests.
H
Holly3278
Guest
Note that the bishops want this health care to be respectful of human life. The current health care reform bill(s?) do not respect life. They disrespect life. I also support universal health care but not until and unless the health care reforms respect life.
E
elgar
Guest
I view BASIC healthcare as a human right. Actually this does exist in American at the moment albeit very expensive for many. Nobody gets turned away in the ER. I also believe BASIC shelter as a human right. Not everyone is entitled to home ownership, but they deserve a roof over their heads regardless of income.
I would be surprised if any healthcare reform proposal coming from majority Democrats would strike universal abortion for any reason. They might use language like “abortion in cases where the mother’s health is in jeopardy” but we all know how that ultimately gets interpreted by the spin meisters.
A question for the Canadians. Does your socialized health plan cover abortion? And if so, is this abortion on demand? Can you support such a plan if it includes this benefit regardless of the other parts you like?
S
SwingCorey
Guest
No, the arguing has just begun.
“The U.S. bishops’ conference is urging lawmakers to reform the health care system **[not necessarily to support Obama’s particular variant of reform] **in order to make it accessible and affordable for all **[this can be done other ways than Obama’s socialization - for example tort reform and free market principles like allowing health insurers from other states], **and respectful of human life [definitely not in Obamacare - abortion and rationing/euthanasia and “end-of-life specialists” all all part of his plan and are offensive to Catholic social justice and respect for life].”
The bishops are definitely NOT saying “support Obama’s plan, or you aren’t a good Catholic”.
What they ARE saying (which is pretty obvious) is: “the current system isn’t as good as it could be - fix it!”
They are not saying, “Scrap it all and replace it with mandated charity, a.k.a. sky-high taxes to fund people to go to the emergency room for every scrape and bump and then stay in the hospital for weeks at a time (like in France).”
Nice try, but the bishops will not push an Obama agenda any more than they pushed for a Bush agenda.
S
SwingCorey
Guest
No - taxpayers will not pay for it… at least, not many and not for long. They will either move, become lazy (e.g., what’s the point in working if I don’t get to keep my pay?), or become brain-washed into some misguided belief that paying exorbitant taxes is not confiscation (i.e., theft) but rather govt-mandated charity, and that’s the same as real charity (i.e., being a cheerful giver), and therefore it’s your duty to pay 70% taxes to take care of others who’d rather sit in a hospital for a few weeks, instead of recover for a day or 2 and then get back to work.
Between Obamacare, Medicare, Social Security, and the soon-to-arrive inflation from all these bailouts, the U.S.A. is going to be a scary place to try to earn an income (not to mention actually getting to keep some of that income for yourself or those you love).
I’m moving to Chile - nice stable economy, stable government, and abortion is outlawed right in their Constitution.
L
Lynn_Diane
Guest
No Catholic can support Obama’s plan for health care. It includes funds to Planned Parenthood for hundreds of new abortuaries. It also requires that seniors be counselled every five years that they have a right to refuse nutrition and hydration and that they have a right to physician-assisted suicide (where legal - expect many more states to legalize it). Obama “encourages” seniors to enter hospices (no medical care) where they can have “relief” from medical care: no more needles, no surgery. This will include children and anyone who needs chronic medical treatment. Imagine the money the government will save! This isn’t health care, it’s DEATH care.
T
Trader
Guest
Here is something no one seems to talk about. Equitable or just costs for healthcare is not the same as inexpensive. For some people a fair price for health insurance would be very high.
We already have model for a private insurance program that works pretty well in the US, and it is auto insurance. Almost all auto insurance is paid for by the individual with after tax dollars. There are no discriminatory tax benefits and you are rated as an individual based on choices you make. If you choose to insure a new Cadillac you pay more than for a used Chevy. If you break the law and get tickets and cause accidents you pay more. That is fair pricing, but may be very expensive for some people. The system provides strong incentives to reduce claim risks by modification of behavior.
I am a sixty year old driving a 1997 Chevy minivan with no tickets in 43 years. Does anyone think it would be just to charge me the same premium as someone with a new $60,000 Corvette and a recent history of DWI?
Look at our two major federal healthcare programs, Medicare and Medicaid. Together they threaten us with national bankruptcy. In those plans a sexually promiscuous drug abusing obese smoker pays no more than a person with none of those behaviors. We subsidize choices that are foolish, immoral, and even criminal. It is those behaviors that have raised the cost of healthcare and Medicare-Medicaid do nothing to change those behaviors. According to a commentator on CNBC yesterday, obesity alone is responsible for 10% of American healthcare expenditures with its complications of heart desease, diabetes, stroke, joint wear, and hypertension and kidney disease.
As a practical matter, it seems that giving discounts for good behavior results in changed behavior and actually removes costs from the system. It has worked very well in healthcare for companies like Safeway who reward their employees for better choices. In states like Michigan which passed laws forbidding discrimination against smokers, smoking rates are very high and two major Michigan based companies recently filed for bankruptcy largely due to the high cost of employee health care, Chrysler and General Motors.
Almost nothing in Obamacare does anything to reduce costs except for more modern information technology and that has been stalled for years over privacy concerns. The bulk of the plan is just shifting costs on to the mythical “rich”. “Rich” is pretty much defined as everyone except the person being addressed by the vote hungry politician at the moment. With heavy government involvement this plan will raise overall costs–not lower them, promising to cover everything for you at the expense of someone else.
We already have model for a private insurance program that works pretty well in the US, and it is auto insurance. Almost all auto insurance is paid for by the individual with after tax dollars. There are no discriminatory tax benefits and you are rated as an individual based on choices you make. If you choose to insure a new Cadillac you pay more than for a used Chevy. If you break the law and get tickets and cause accidents you pay more. That is fair pricing, but may be very expensive for some people. The system provides strong incentives to reduce claim risks by modification of behavior.
I am a sixty year old driving a 1997 Chevy minivan with no tickets in 43 years. Does anyone think it would be just to charge me the same premium as someone with a new $60,000 Corvette and a recent history of DWI?
Look at our two major federal healthcare programs, Medicare and Medicaid. Together they threaten us with national bankruptcy. In those plans a sexually promiscuous drug abusing obese smoker pays no more than a person with none of those behaviors. We subsidize choices that are foolish, immoral, and even criminal. It is those behaviors that have raised the cost of healthcare and Medicare-Medicaid do nothing to change those behaviors. According to a commentator on CNBC yesterday, obesity alone is responsible for 10% of American healthcare expenditures with its complications of heart desease, diabetes, stroke, joint wear, and hypertension and kidney disease.
As a practical matter, it seems that giving discounts for good behavior results in changed behavior and actually removes costs from the system. It has worked very well in healthcare for companies like Safeway who reward their employees for better choices. In states like Michigan which passed laws forbidding discrimination against smokers, smoking rates are very high and two major Michigan based companies recently filed for bankruptcy largely due to the high cost of employee health care, Chrysler and General Motors.
Almost nothing in Obamacare does anything to reduce costs except for more modern information technology and that has been stalled for years over privacy concerns. The bulk of the plan is just shifting costs on to the mythical “rich”. “Rich” is pretty much defined as everyone except the person being addressed by the vote hungry politician at the moment. With heavy government involvement this plan will raise overall costs–not lower them, promising to cover everything for you at the expense of someone else.
S
SwingCorey
Guest
Excellent points, Trader.
The only difference I see between auto and health insurance is: uninsured drivers hurt others, while people without health insurance (mostly) only hurt themselves. So, if we don’t have federal programs for auto insurance for all (and that’s a safety issue that extends beyond the person), why should we have it for individual health insurance?!?
- Status