US Bishops Want to Study Causes & Context

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fix:
I’m sorry, who was it that Cardinal Law sexually abused?
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the question I was asked was not who committed the abuse but who allowed and promoted it. I answered the question I was asked.
 
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katherine2:
the question I was asked was not who committed the abuse but who allowed and promoted it. I answered the question I was asked.
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Promoted it? Come on Katherine, be reasonable. Even to say he ‘allowed’ it is quite a stretch.

Lisa N
 
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katherine2:
Trite bunk.

Ground Zero for this tragdy is the Archdiocese of Boston. Led by the otuwardly conservative and orthodox Bernard Cardinal Law, celebrated by conservatives as “the enforcer” and half of the so-called New York-Boston sxis of “Law and Order” (Cardinal O’Connor).

Who allowed immoral behavior? Who was in a position to allow it? To allow an act, you first must have knowledge of it. Law and his Chancery went to great lenghts to keep abuse secret, pressursing victims to keep quiet and not disclosing serial abusers and even writing letters of recommendation for them. “Call to Action” wacko group that it is, had no ability to have knowledge of these acts.

Second, to allow an act, you have to have ability to stop it. It was in Law’s ability to remove these priests yet he reassigned them time and time again.

Here we have hard facts. Some vague “atmposhere” is ultimately an unproveable point. it is s silly path to even try to go down.
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I know specifically of seminary directors that either kept orthodox priests out or made conditions so unbearable that they left, simply because these priests did not dissent, believed in the rosary, and agreed with all of the Church’s moral teachings.

Hard facts.

See also my post on CPE. Hard facts.

Read the books by Weigel, Groeschel, and Rose. Hard facts.

Racketeering lawsuit that demonstrates this protection of homosexual predators:

cruxnews.com/rose/rose-23july04.html

Hard facts.

The Achdiocese of Boston is just one example of an enormous problem within, in particular but not only, the American Catholic church. It is quite likely that Law and other Bishops have been blackmailed and threatened with retaliation if the immoral underground is exposed. The lead protectors of that underground are dissenters from the faith.

Because you refuse to read or accept the hard facts that disagree with you conclusion makes them no less facts.
 
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StJeanneDArc:
What’s interesting about this exchange is that it’s plain that Katherine prefers to believe that abusers were known as orthodox and upright. Brad and others, including myself, want to believe that a heterodox, dissenting environment led to abuse, and that probably most of the abusers were heterodox dissenters themselves.

Now why do we have these mindsets? I have no qualms about promoting orthodoxy and obedience to the magesterium. Why are others so eager to paint egregious sinners with the orthodox brush? If you are one of those people, don’t you think you should pause and think about what you’re doing? You are implying that, orthodoxy and piety is not only no guarantee against egregious sin (which I agree is true, we’re all capable of falling), but may not even help obtain the graces to prevent a fall. Do you really want to say that? Are you so vested in promoting a “progressive” agenda (begging the question, progressing towards what?) that you will imply that the long-standing wisdom of the Church is no bulwark against sin?
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Good point. It is almost by definition that the multiple-time abusers are dissenters. I think what is severely misunderstood here is the workings of the evil one himself.
 
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Brad:
It is quite likely that Law and other Bishops have been blackmailed and threatened with retaliation if the immoral underground is exposed. The lead protectors of that underground are dissenters from the faith.

Because you refuse to read or accept the hard facts that disagree with you conclusion makes them no less facts.
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Brad, you are going off the deep end here. Get real. Law’s actions that are now public and known are to be excused because you have a “deep throat” source that tells you he may have been “blackmailed” by a secret homosexual cabal (blackmailed how? was Law stealing as well?).

Brad, you are writing a fictional spy novel, not stating any facts.
 
Boston: Defrocked priest Paul Shanley yesterday (Mon. Feb. 7th, 2005) was found guilty on two counts each of child rape and indecent assault & battery on a child in the 1980s at his church.

Throughout his tenure as a Roman Catholic Priest, Paul Shanley defied the teachings of the Church and argued for the acceptance of homosexuality and “pushed for Gay rights”. Father Shanley had advertised himself as a “sexual expert” in the “alternative press”.

Paul Shanley could receive up to life in prison, his lawyer is appealing the decision.

I find it offensive and insulting that certain efforts are being made to separate homosexuality from the sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic Church. In the early 70s, a Jesuit ‘street priest’, David C. Murphy, showed up at my street corner and began to hang out with my gang of 40 kids. After awhile rumors began to appear, and witnesses saw this guy in bed with one or two of the guys. In 2003 Father David C. Murphy was arrested in the sexual abuse scandal with 60 sexual offences to his credit in my neighborhood. I strongly feel that no homosexual should allowed to ever be ordained as a Roman Catholic Priest - not ever!
 
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katherine2:
Actually, of the far too great a number of child abusing priests, only a handful were known as people who publicly challenged the teachings of the Church. Most in their public actions were perfectly orthodox and quite a number were even rather rigid and conservative in their public acts.
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Please tell us who these men are that are orthodox and homosexual abusers.
 
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TPJCatholic:
Can anyone spell TRIBULATION?
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T-R-I-B-U-L-A-T-I-O-N (noun) Great affliction, trial, or distress; suffering.

I hope you are referring to the young victims of the sexual abuse scandal and not the monsters who perpetrated such evil acts?!
 
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katherine2:
Brad, you are going off the deep end here. Get real. Law’s actions that are now public and known are to be excused because you have a “deep throat” source that tells you he may have been “blackmailed” by a secret homosexual cabal (blackmailed how? was Law stealing as well?).

Brad, you are writing a fictional spy novel, not stating any facts.
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If you don’t think that blackmailing occurs, simply consult the other sources which you have conveniently ignored.

Continue to focus on Law rather than what is actually going on.

Let’s see how many of these questions you actually answer:

Have you read Weigel’s book?

Have you read Rose’s book?

Have you read Groeschel’s book?

Have you read about the rackateering lawsuit?

Have you gone to CPE training or read what it normally involves?

Blackmailing occurs. I know names and specific occurrences.

Time for it to end.
 
Kevin,

I was speaking about the victims, the world, and the Church…the entire body of Christ is wounded by such horrors.
 
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TPJCatholic:
Kevin,

I was speaking about the victims, the world, and the Church…the entire body of Christ is wounded by such horrors.
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Thank you for the clarification. Personally I truly believe those horrors would never have occured if homosexuals were denied being ordained as priests.
 
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katherine2:
go ahead. you have my attention.
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Whereas you said I was going off the deep end, I prefer not to prove you correct and to protect those that I love and trust.

You are just going to have to trust me on this one.
 
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Brad:
Whereas you said I was going off the deep end, I prefer not to prove you correct and to protect those that I love and trust.

You are just going to have to trust me on this one.
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That’s a cop out. Spill your guts. You’re not a whistle blower, things need to be brought out in the open and investigated in the Catholic Church.
 
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katherine2:
Actually, of the far too great a number of child abusing priests, only a handful were known as people who publicly challenged the teachings of the Church. Most in their public actions were perfectly orthodox and quite a number were even rather rigid and conservative in their public acts.
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Still waiting for names to prove most homosexual abusers were orthodox men of faith.
 
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fix:
Still waiting for names to prove most homosexual abusers were orthodox men of faith.
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fix, when did you stop beating your wife?
 
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