US bishops warn of errors in feminist sister's book

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StAnastasia said:
You’re threatened by Maureen Tilly, right? You’re threatened because she is a woman who dared to earn a doctorate, rather than staying barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen and bearing dozens of babies. Do you think Bishop McGrath should excommunicate her? Do you think he himself should be censured for welcoming her, rather than excommunicating a woman who has an original thought of her own? Work with me – I’m trying to discern the parameters of your anti-female, anti-intellectual thinking here.
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Wow. I’m a woman who just was reading through this and I must say, I’m surprised that somebody who is trying to promote an ‘intellectual’ climate is using the most stereotypical, dated, ad hominem type of rhetoric as a tool.

How can you possibly expect to communicate with people when you aren’t trying to ‘hear’ them but are simply ‘reacting’ with, forgive me, dreck?

I don’t have my doctorate but I have two BAs. . .and I earned them while caring for my then three small children, and maintaining a home with cooking and cleaning. Sorry, I don’t do ‘barefoot’ though. The idea that women have to be polarized into ‘either’ being professional academics OR ‘breeders’ is something that should have been put to rest long ago. I’m sad to see that apparently this kind of substitute for intellectual argument is still trotted out. 😦
 
StAnastasia said:
You’re threatened because she is a woman who dared to earn a doctorate, rather than staying barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen and bearing dozens of babies. Do you think Bishop McGrath should excommunicate her? Do you think he himself should be censured for welcoming her, rather than excommunicating a woman who has an original thought of her own? Work with me – I’m trying to discern the parameters of your anti-female, anti-intellectual thinking here.
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OK fellow men. I think StA is on to us now. Our weekly Tuesday night “I’m going out to get some beer” runs (which in fact is when our worldwide “keep the women in their places” meeting occurs) will need to be held under much tighter security.

All that planning we’ve done for the last 50,000 years in previous sessions is now in jeopardy, and our primary agenda to keep the females of the world barefoot, pregnant, in the kitchen, non-intellectual, and bearing dozens of babies is being threatened with exposure.

Be on your guard, and don’t lose hope!

Oh yeah, I almost forgot the :rolleyes:
 
StAnastasia said:
Granny, while you were sleeping, the 20th century happened, and the Church found herself in it. The point is to engage with the world and sanctify it, not to run away screaming in fear.
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I believe this is based on John 3: 16 &17.

It is a plus to have a professor explain modern secular theology . However, us 21st century sleepy heads can go way back to when Catholics knew the reason for John 3: 16 & 17 and it is not symbolic. :tsktsk: post 167
 
StAnastasia said:
If you didn’t hear her speech, or Paul Lakeland’s, you shouldn’t shoot your mouth off about them. Theirs were great talks. Members of CTSA are as good and holy people as other Catholics. It’s odd how posters on this forum – who seem threatened by academics – do nothing but attack a meeting they are not even attending!
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Well, StA. you just may be on to something. But frankly, when it comes to theology, I really don’t see posters frightened by academics. I see posters worried about the academics of theology which are shifting to a secular base.

And you should keep in mind that the CTSA is not a silent group. Look at all your presentations which you have talked about. Look at all your contacts with famous public figures. No one has to follow you around to know your position in advance of a meeting.

Authors like Sr. Elizabeth Johnson need to create a following to sell books.
Do you really think it is necessary to attend a meeting in order to know her position?
Do you really think that CTSA would invite Paul Lakeland if they weren’t absolutely sure of his position? Of course, people can comment on a meeting they haven’t attended. This is because the speakers are not timid whenever there is an opportunity for publicity or a photo op.

Blessings,
granny

John 3: 16 & 17
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Wow. I’m a woman who just was reading through this and I must say, I’m surprised that somebody who is trying to promote an ‘intellectual’ climate is using the most stereotypical, dated, ad hominem type of rhetoric as a tool.

How can you possibly expect to communicate with people when you aren’t trying to ‘hear’ them but are simply ‘reacting’ with, forgive me, dreck?

I don’t have my doctorate but I have two BAs. . .and I earned them while caring for my then three small children, and maintaining a home with cooking and cleaning. Sorry, I don’t do ‘barefoot’ though. The idea that women have to be polarized into ‘either’ being professional academics OR ‘breeders’ is something that should have been put to rest long ago. I’m sad to see that apparently this kind of substitute for intellectual argument is still trotted out. 😦
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Well, this thread is pretty much dead. I wish you all well!
Please watch this and pray for Iraq’s Christians.
youtube.com/watch?v=XfhL1pkXSt4
 
Dale_M said:
I think peer review typically works behind the scenes, providing feedback to the author so that corrections or revisions can be made. The author does not get published unless the peer reviewers and editors are satisfied. Professional book and move critics, of course, act independently of the author, and after the book (or movie) has reached the market.

You make an interesting comparison and it raises a number of questions. Do theologians undergo any kind of peer review process, other than a nihil obstat/imprimatur? Should an imprimatur be required before publication of theologians’ works? If so, would this be too burdensome for the bishops, either collectively or individually? Is the recent critique of Sr. Elizabeth’s work best regarded as a professional book review?
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I reckon, theologians undergo a review process by their peers. However, I suspect this would be in a manner of “like-for-like” sort. I doubt whether modernists would subject their work for review by those with orthodox leanings.

Hope the link helps in respect of your query on the requirement for an imprimatur, Dale.
catholicdoors.com/faq/qu89.htm
 
Santi2 said:
Hope the link helps in respect of your query on the requirement for an imprimatur, Dale.
catholicdoors.com/faq/qu89.htm
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Thank you, Santi. Although it doesn’t answer my questions it does provide solid, useful information.

An imprimatur is required for Bibles, liturgical texts, books of prayers, and religious textbooks used by minors.

In addition, bishops have a right and duty to review any books by Catholics which touch upon faith or morals. They have the right and duty to condemn those which harm correct faith and morals.
 
Chaldean_Rite said:
There will never be a greater vocation for women then the model of the Blessed Virgin: Motherhood. Your statements minimize it. You’re Phd won’t make you a saint, being fruitful at least has a chance to do so.
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Men are supposed to be fruitful first, so that women can be fruitful.
 
manygift1spirit said:
I haven’t read the Sister’s book, but from reading the criticism of it, and this rebuttal of hers, it is pretty clear there are exactly two options.

First is that her theology is indeed deficient, and she is being quite prideful in not heeding the corrections.

Second is that she is simply a really really really bad writer. If the critics misunderstood her book so badly, imagine how disasterous using it in a theology class would be.

And I should point out these options are not mutually exclusive.
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Isn’t there a third option? She could be a really, really, really bad writer of deficient theology.
 
JRRTFAN said:
Isn’t there a third option? She could be a really, really, really bad writer of deficient theology.
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Nice. A little or a lot of both, eh? I guess understand the frustration from having a work criticized and restricted, yet the risk anyone takes when writing for something that needs Church approval is that the answer will be “no.” She surely has the right to appeal and clear up any misunderstanding, but in the most favorable light the best that can be said is that the work is confusing and not suitable for teaching.
 
Is there a reason the title of the article says “religious sister” while the title of this thread says “feminist sister”? :confused:
 
grannymh said:
Maybe it is dead because the intellectuals, on both sides, couldn’t figure out a simple common sense challenge. No matter. It is more relaxing to talk past people.

🙂
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Or divert the debate by personal innuendos clearly in violation of forum rules. …(see post #167.)

At any rate, I believe what we have experienced on this thread is sensus fidei, the ability of those who are obedient to faith, to adhere to Truth thru the power of the HS. It enabled the early Christians to hold firm in the midst of raging heresies and it’s comforting to know that despite those scholars who would promote harm and suggest to even the Teachers and Holders of the faith, that they don’t understand, the Church truly is indefectible.
 
JRRTFAN said:
Isn’t there a third option? She could be a really, really, really bad writer of deficient theology.
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That is indeed an option (unfortunately). But that is what I meant when I said that the other two options were not mutually exclusive. In other words they both could be true.
 
manygift1spirit said:
That is indeed an option (unfortunately). But that is what I meant when I said that the other two options were not mutually exclusive. In other words they both could be true.
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A number of posts back, I was looking for the English explanation which accompanies the current Imprimatur. I am not at my home so obviously I can’t get to my own books, Apparently, no CAF poster has a book with an Imprimatur and I don’t want to rely on my memory for the exact wording which is a both-and situation similar to what you are saying. Only as I recall, it allows for a difference in opinions but not in doctrines.
 
grannymh said:
A number of posts back, I was looking for the English explanation which accompanies the current Imprimatur. I am not at my home so obviously I can’t get to my own books, Apparently, no CAF poster has a book with an Imprimatur and I don’t want to rely on my memory for the exact wording which is a both-and situation similar to what you are saying. Only as I recall, it allows for a difference in opinions but not in doctrines.
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Oh, if that is what you are looking for Google Books can come to the rescue. Here is what the The Word of God: Jesus Christ by C. Jack Brinkman (copyright 2002) says:
The Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur are official declarations that a book or pamphlet is free of doctrinal or moral error. No implication is contained therein that those who have granted the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur agree with the contents, opinions or statements expressed.
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books.google.com/books?id=we4I7t9KzFsC&pg=PR7&dq=nihil+obstat+imprimatur&hl=en&ei=Ynv1Ta7IMY-y0AHEo_3qDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=nihil%20obstat%20imprimatur&f=false
 
grannymh said:
A number of posts back, I was looking for the English explanation which accompanies the current Imprimatur. I am not at my home so obviously I can’t get to my own books, Apparently, no CAF poster has a book with an Imprimatur and I don’t want to rely on my memory for the exact wording which is a both-and situation similar to what you are saying. Only as I recall, it allows for a difference in opinions but not in doctrines.
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here you go.

The Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur are official declarations that a book is considered to be free of doctrinal or moral error. No implication is contained therein that those who have granted the Nihil Obstat or the Imprimatur agree with the contents, opinions or statements expressed.
 
grannymh said:
And you should keep in mind that the CTSA is not a silent group. Look at all your presentations which you have talked about. Look at all your contacts with famous public figures. No one has to follow you around to know your position in advance of a meeting.
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“We are greatly disturbed that the Doctrine Committee did not follow the approved procedures of [the 1989 U.S. bishops’ conference document] ‘Doctrinal Responsibilities,’ which advocate that an informal conversation be undertaken as a first step,” the CTSA board statement read.

“The CTSA statement further charged that the Doctrine Committee’s assessment of Johnson’s book was “deficient” because it misrepresented thinking presented in the book.”

In other words, the bishops acted less than honestly in misrepresenting Elizabeth Johnson’s work. That is the basic complaint of the CTSA, rather than the content of the doctrinal investigation.
 
ricmat said:
OK fellow men. I think StA is on to us now. Our weekly Tuesday night “I’m going out to get some beer” runs (which in fact is when our worldwide “keep the women in their places” meeting occurs) will need to be held under much tighter security.

👍
All that planning we’ve done for the last 50,000 years in previous sessions is now in jeopardy, and our primary agenda to keep the females of the world barefoot, pregnant, in the kitchen, non-intellectual, and bearing dozens of babies is being threatened with exposure.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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