US bishops warn of errors in feminist sister's book

[StAnastasia]

Bishop Salvatore Joseph Cordileone
*In December of 1974, during his first year of college and with encouragement from a young parish priest he respected, Cordileone attended a seminary vocation retreat. It was during this first year at San Diego State that Cordileone discerned his call to the Priesthood and entered St. Francis Seminary, transferring as a sophomore to the University of San Diego. *

I have met Bishop Salvatore Cordileone. He is courteous, well educated, and quite pastoral. I wish more bishops earned doctorates in theology, as we need theologians in the episcopal office.

Elizabeth Johnson is a superb theologian whom I hope to meet this weekend in San Jose at the Catholic Theological Association of America.

StAnastasia

 

[StAnastasia]

Code of Canon Law : Can. 1369 A person who in a public show or speech, in published writing, or in other uses of the instruments of social communication utters blasphemy, gravely injures good morals, expresses insults, or excites hatred or contempt against religion or the Church is to be punished with a just penalty.

Regrettably, LogisticsBranch, you misunderstand my allusion, which was to Sor (Sister) Juana Inés de la Cruz (1648 – 1695). She too was examined and disciplined, in her case by the Archbishop of Mexico and other bishops. The perceived threat was in part that although she was a female, she nevertheless dared to write constructive theology. During one of her interrogations before an all-male panel of inquisitors, a priest noted that in the power and authority of her response she was “like a galleon surrounded by canoes.”

I meant nothing more than this by my historical reference to the disciplining of yet another female theologian, of whom we still have far too few. I encourage you to read Elizabeth Johnson’s brilliant response (linked above) to the bishops’ inquisition into her book “Quest for the Living God.”

StAnastasia

 

[po18guy]

“College curricula typically include critical literary hermeneutics, complex economic and political theory, postcolonial accounts of history, sociological analysis, pragmatic philosophical approaches, gender theory, and the practice of scientific methods. In view of the sophisticated study students make in other disciplines, presenting religion in a simplistic way would be deadly. Rather than simply imparting information to be appropriated, theology in the college and university setting aims to think: it invites students to discover Christian faith critically and appreciatively by raising questions, offering interpretations, making comparisons, evaluating, and testing new thought forms, all to encourage growth in understanding. For students to engage with theological investigations guided by a competent professor is not only not harmful but can be positively beneficial, promoting intellectual and frequently spiritual growth. Students are much better prepared to face the world in flux if they have grappled with faith in this way.”

From the content of this paragraph, Sister, perhaps unwittingly, condemns the very college curricula which she seems to exalt. I extract nothing but elitism, condescension and relativism from this “defense”. How do her words compare with those of her own Savior: "And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them, and said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven”.

 

[po18guy]

Most bishops are not theologically trained. Watching them attack Elizabeth Johnson is like watching people in birch bark canoes armed with bows and arrows attacking a fully armed “British Man of War.”

Methinks you have this backward. Is it not Sister’s modernist and unorthodox teachings that are attacking the faith? What is the Bishop supposed to do? Should he simply rubber-stamp a work that, on prima facia, exhibits multifarious difficulties?

 

[StAnastasia]

Methinks you have this backward. Is it not Sister’s modernist and unorthodox teachings that are attacking the faith? What is the Bishop supposed to do? Should he simply rubber-stamp a work that, on prima facia, exhibits multifarious difficulties?

No, you have it backward. There is nothing unorthodox in Quest for the Living God, unless you consider the Bible unorthodox, which I imagine you don’t.

 

[StAnastasia]

From the content of this paragraph, Sister, perhaps unwittingly, condemns the very college curricula which she seems to exalt. I extract nothing but elitism, condescension and relativism from this “defense”. How do her words compare with those of her own Savior: "And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them, and said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven”.

No, there is niothing elitis, condescending, or relativist about what Elizabeth Johnson says. What she is saying is that all university curricula – history, economics, politics, the sciences – take a critical approach to their subject matter. If theology alone refuses to take a critical approach, it does not meet the standards for university study.

 

[Corki]

I have met Bishop Salvatore Cordileone. He is courteous, well educated, and quite pastoral. I wish more bishops earned doctorates in theology, as we need theologians in the episcopal office.

It is my understanding that all of the Bishops in the US have at a minimum a licentiate in theology, scripture or canon law (doctorate preferred).

in possession of a doctorate or at least a licentiate in sacred scripture, theology, or canon law from an institute of higher studies approved by the Apostolic See, or at least truly expert in the same disciplines.

Code of Canon Law 378

In the US, we have only a few canonists amoung the episopacy so that makes virtually all of them theologians.

 

[po18guy]

No, you have it backward. There is nothing unorthodox in Quest for the Living God, unless you consider the Bible unorthodox, which I imagine you don’t.

Did not Sister apply for the Imprimatur? In so doing, she thrust herself via her publication into the limelight. She initiated the conflict in at least two regards, did she not? Bishop Olmstead responded, as is his responsibility.

Could it just be that Sister’s private interpretation of scripture is what is questionable? I readily admit that I have not read Sister’s publication, but I honestly suspect that it reveals much more about Sister than it does about God.

Your posts have revealed your clear and present bias in favor of Sister, and against the Bishop. In your denunciation/condemnation of Bishop Olmstead, what errors do you see him committing? Have you contacted his superior with your concerns?

 

[po18guy]

It is my understanding that all of the Bishops in the US have at a minimum a licentiate in theology, scripture or canon law (doctorate preferred).

Code of Canon Law 378

In the US, we have only a few canonists amoung the episopacy so that makes virtually all of them theologians.

It hit me like a ton of bricks to learn that, apparently, theology is only taught to radical Sisters and not to Priests or Bishops…

 

[StAnastasia]

Your posts have revealed your clear and present bias in favor of Sister, and against the Bishop. In your denunciation/condemnation of Bishop Olmstead, what errors do you see him committing? Have you contacted his superior with your concerns?

The bishops’ commission misstated Elizabeth Johnson’s theological argument in chapter nine of her book, falsely stating that she had said something which in fact she had never said. You can read it in the link posted above.

 

[StAnastasia]

Your posts have revealed your clear and present bias in favor of Sister, and against the Bishop. In your denunciation/condemnation of Bishop Olmstead, what errors do you see him committing? Have you contacted his superior with your concerns?

Actually, since I am a theologian, I suppose you could say I have a clear and present bias in favor of theology and of the truthful representation of what theologians actually say. That’s one of the things I liked best about bishop John Cummins, who was deeply engaged with the dialogue between theology and the modern world.

 

[po18guy]

No, there is niothing elitis, condescending, or relativist about what Elizabeth Johnson says. What she is saying is that all university curricula – history, economics, politics, the sciences – take a critical approach to their subject matter. If theology alone refuses to take a critical approach, it does not meet the standards for university study.

Is it just possible that the manner in which Sister subjects theology to the critical approach is the crux of the matter?

 

[po18guy]

The bishops’ commission misstated Elizabeth Johnson’s theological argument in chapter nine of her book, falsely stating that she had said something which in fact she had never said. You can read it in the link posted above.

Do you ascribe bad intent to such a statement?

 

[StAnastasia]

Is it just possible that the manner in which Sister subjects theology to the critical approach is the crux of the matter?

No, Elizabeth Johnson writes no differently than any other theologian I know through the Catholic Theological Society of America. In fact, if you read her Quest for the Living God, you’ll see that she writes as a faithful Catholic very dedicated to her Church. Her book is an excellent work in theology.

 

[StAnastasia]

Do you ascribe bad intent to such a statement?

Not at all.

 

[ricmat]

Regrettably, LogisticsBranch, you misunderstand my allusion, which was to Sor (Sister) Juana Inés de la Cruz (1648 – 1695). She too was examined and disciplined, in her case by the Archbishop of Mexico and other bishops. **The perceived threat was in part that although she was a female, she nevertheless dared to write constructive theology. **

Whose opinion is this?

During one of her interrogations before an all-male panel of inquisitors, a priest noted that in the power and authority of her response she was “like a galleon surrounded by canoes.”

Ah, an “all male” panel of inquisitors. Well, there’s the answer!!! It’s obvious.

So who was/were the galleon, and who was/were the canoes?

I meant nothing more than this by my historical reference to the disciplining of yet another female theologian, of whom we still have far too few. I encourage you to read Elizabeth Johnson’s brilliant response (linked above) to the bishops’ inquisition into her book “Quest for the Living God.”

StAnastasia

A book I mentioned that you mocked on another thread is full of the writings of St. Teresa of Avila, St. Catherine of Siena, St. Therese of Liseaux, St. John of the Cross, St. Bernard of Clarvieux, and St. Francis de Sales. Women seem to be fairly well represented there despite the fact that fewer women could write back in those days. Perhaps the problem with Elizabeth Johnson is not that she is a woman, but rather what she says. You are disturbed that she has been disciplined merely because she is a female. Are there no male theologians who have been disciplined? Should female theologians get a free pass?

 

[po18guy]

No, Elizabeth Johnson writes no differently than any other theologian I know through the Catholic Theological Society of America. In fact, if you read her Quest for the Living God, you’ll see that she writes as a faithful Catholic very dedicated to her Church. Her book is an excellent work in theology.

CTSA is an unabashedly modernist organization, is it not? I know that its stated goals and purpose are couched in very unassuming terminology, but some of its products are clearly at odds with orthodoxy. I see it as a change agent.

Of note, I found nothing in their goals or purpose relating to fidelity to the Magisterium. In fact, they have released documents openly critical of Vatican papers. To a Catholic who is attempting to be faithful to the Magisterium, this is not a good sign.

 

[StAnastasia]

Perhaps the problem with Elizabeth Johnson is not that she is a woman, but rather what she says.

Elizabeth Johnson does not say anything that has not been broached by other Catholic theologians; what is intriguing is her presentation of the material. It is excellently laid out and lucidly written, which no doubt accounts for why it is so widley assigned. (Today on Amazon.com it ranks just below the CCC and Francis Collins’ new book, even though it is three times as expensive as either one!)

Before trusting other people, you should read Johnson’s book for yourself, or at the very least her thoughtful response to the bishops’ critique.

 

[po18guy]

A book I mentioned that you mocked on another thread is full of the writings of St. Teresa of Avila, St. Catherine of Siena, St. Therese of Liseaux, St. John of the Cross, St. Bernard of Clarvieux, and St. Francis de Sales. Women seem to be fairly well represented there despite the fact that fewer women could write back in those days. Perhaps the problem with Elizabeth Johnson is not that she is a woman, but rather what she says. You are disturbed that she has been disciplined merely because she is a female. Are there no male theologians who have been disciplined? Should female theologians get a free pass?

We are hearing the squeals of “injustice” when modernism’s toes are rightly stepped on. This brand of “feminism” is supremacy in theologian’s clothing.

 

[ricmat]

Most bishops are not theologically trained. Watching them attack Elizabeth Johnson is like watching people in birch bark canoes armed with bows and arrows attacking a fully armed “British Man of War.”

I was talking with a friend yesterday (a former Marine) who in the context of another item said “I never met a private who didn’t think he was smarter than the generals.”

It seems that this phenomenon is not restricted exclusively to the military.