US fast-food workers staging nationwide strike

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HappyCatholic01 said:
If you own a piece of the company of course it is. If you don’t, it is debatable. The point was being made generally, as most people who comment are not active as stock holders.

Of course one could argue the salaries of any employee are your business if you own a piece of a company.

As a small business owner, I obviously know everyone’s salary.

But that flies in the face of the point PEEBO was making.
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Nope…in fact I said that if companies/shareholders want to pay their CEO top dollar that’s their business…same goes for small business owners…if they can negotiate a deal with their employees then that is their business…that is why I quoted Matthew 20:1-16…with large multi national organizations like McDonalds it’s not as easy to do that on a national level and not be made public…but the same still applies…if they work out a deal it’s nobodys business but McDonalds and its employees
 
JimG said:
At one of my first jobs, married men were paid more than single men for the same job–essentially a training position–because the married men had a family to support.

Because of numerous labor laws and regs, that would now be illegal. Equal pay for equal work is the law, and if an employer tries to discriminate among employees doing the same job based on personal factors and work ethic, they will be sued, and the unions will back up the lawsuit. So if you’ve got a standout employee, you’ve got to pay him the same as the worst employee, or else give them both raises.
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It isn’t quite that bad yet, but we are headed that way. Some people are still paid on commission.

At my first job, our sales manager provided a surprise report on the 30 or so inside sales people in our company’s six locations for an entire year. One person averaged 21.5 orders per day, the second 12.5/day and the third 10.5/day. By the time you got to the bottom we had people with less than 5 orders per day. #2 was my supervisor. As you might have guessed, the people at the bottom thought it was unfair that the top producer was paid slightly more than them.

They also thought it was unfair when I moved to competitor and helped recruit some of the better salesmen, and their plant closed about a year later. They would have been much better off if the top producer had been paid enough to keep him at work covering their lazy behinds.
 
Dawnia said:
Extreme poverty, absolute poverty, or abject poverty is stated as “a condition characterized by severe deprivation of basic human needs, including food, safe drinking water, sanitation facilities, health, shelter, education and information.
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Oh, so the poor in this country don’t have food? The don’t have access to water? I thought that was what SNAP is for? They are denied access to healthcare? I though it was illegal for hospitals to refuse medical care? They are denied housing? Don’t we have government housing programs? Poor people are not allowed to go to public school?

What about all the other government programs? TANF? WIC? Pell Grants? Home heating assistance?

Does that mean that the people I see in Wal-Mart buying $300 worth of groceries holding a brand new I Phone aren’t really poor?

Like I said, people in this country don’t know what absolute poverty is. Minimum wage is not absolute poverty. Go to a third world country and you will see what absolute poverty is.
 
freeRadical said:
People in this country don’t know what absolute poverty is.
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I beg to differ. There is a great deal more poverty in this country than meets the eye. Just ask anyone having to live in an apartment building run by a slum lord. Just ask a child who has no food, a coat for winter or medicine when sick. Granted we don’t have it as bad many third world countries, but that does not mean that there are not people here who are not very poor and destitute.
 
Cricket2 said:
I beg to differ. There is a great deal more poverty in this country than meets the eye. Just ask anyone having to live in an apartment building run by a slum lord. Just ask a child who has no food, a coat for winter or medicine when sick. Granted we don’t have it as bad many third world countries, but that does not mean that there are not people here who are not very poor and destitute.
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Why is that child without food, a coat, or medicine? Isn’t that what WIC is for? Why is that person living in an apartment with a slum lord? Don’t we have government housing programs for the poor?

My grandma lived through the Great Depression, she can tell you what abject poverty is.
 
Mickey_Finn said:
Well it’s relative isn’t it. I guess the question would be are you trying to bring American workers down to third world standards? That would mean that we’ve worked for over 200 years for nothing. Or perhaps your point is that they should be grateful for what they are getting. Let me tell you if they are then they are lost.

ATB
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The specter of Globalization, outsourcing of jobs and frozen wages, inflation and the destruction of the middle class has been driving this country downhill sense the early 80’s. We don’t have far to go and we will be just another third world nation out there.

One of the primary effect of outsourcing our jobs to other countries has been to keep are wages down or even decrease them.
 
Dawnia said:
No it isn’t. People risk their lives to come be in poverty in this country because it’s a heck of a step up from real poverty.
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What you don’t hear about is that a lot of them go back to their old countries. I heard in the early to mid part of the 20th century, something like 70% of the Poles moved back to Poland.
 
freeRadical said:
Why is that child without food, a coat, or medicine? Isn’t that what WIC is for? Why is that person living in an apartment with a slum lord? Don’t we have government housing programs for the poor?

My grandma lived through the Great Depression, she can tell you what abject poverty is.
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Yes my grandparents lived through the GD also. They would go weeks without food. I know plenty of people who cannot afford the food they have. They have to use food banks, get help from the Church and go to WIC.

People should not be to impressed with WIC or government housing programs. My sister is on disability and is expected to survive on $900./month. When I retire, (If I can) I will get no more than $500./month. Most of my jobs did not contribute to Social Security. I got stuck with the 401K’s (Stock Market helped lose most of that) and with PERA. What was not lost by the Stock Market I had to use to survive when sick and bedridden several times.

I have worked with disabled adults who have to accept housing in some pretty disgusting housing programs. There is nothing nice about them. Just ask anyone who has to live in them. It is nice to believe people are nicely cared for by these programs, but the reality is they mostly stink. As far as slum lords, they are a breed all their own.

One of our neighbors rents a house from one. We have lived in the neighborhood for 50 years. He has never replaced the shingles, painted or repaired leaks. The folks living there can’t afford anything else. This guy owns 250 properties and they are all junky heaps. He doesn’t do anymore than he has to.

My sister rented from several of these sort in her travels across this country. They are the same just about anywhere. I have had only 2 landlords that actually took care of the properties. The rest of them let things go to the bitter end. I even had one that let the toilet water from upstairs leak in my place for 6 weeks. (Oh yes, I reported them…which was about as useful as a $3.00 bill.)
 
Cricket2 said:
Thank you. The most reasonable post I have seen.

I am a little tired of the words “unskilled.” All jobs require skills of some kind. Those who have never worked in the fast food industry might be surprised at how hard that work can be. Though one might argue that the intellectual challenges are minimal, the physical aspect is not. And you do have to know everything about the particular company you work for.

I think everyone should have to start in what some are calling “unskilled positions.” They might be a little more appreciative of everyone’s work and stop thinking that being on top is so almighty important.
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You obviously don’t read my posts. Not only did I work in fast food for 5 years while I was in college, but I was a management level employee (I passed the test that the manager’s test…to get a raise, BTW), plus I was employee of the year every year I was eligible.

Sorry to inform you, but working in fast food isn’t that difficult. Anybody can walk in the door and by the end of the day be functional at some type of position. Sure, it can be long hours and tiring on you feet. But that is not to be compared to going to college for at least 4 years, then get out an train several more to get a license.
My father had an employee once who informed him that: “You don’t pay me for what I do, you pay me for what I know.” My father advised him, that in fact the opposite was true. He told him: “Your here to work, I pay you to work, not for what you know, or think you know.”
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Ultimately, a person gets paid for the value they bring to their customer. The level that get paid out depends on the competition. Basic supply and demand.
 
Cricket2 said:
Yes my grandparents lived through the GD also. They would go weeks without food. I know plenty of people who cannot afford the food they have. They have to use food banks, get help from the Church and go to WIC.

People should not be to impressed with WIC or government housing programs. My sister is on disability and is expected to survive on $900./month. When I retire, (If I can) I will get no more than $500./month. Most of my jobs did not contribute to Social Security. I got stuck with the 401K’s (Stock Market helped lose most of that) and with PERA. What was not lost by the Stock Market I had to use to survive when sick and bedridden several times.

I have worked with disabled adults who have to accept housing in some pretty disgusting housing programs. There is nothing nice about them. Just ask anyone who has to live in them. It is nice to believe people are nicely cared for by these programs, but the reality is they mostly stink. As far as slum lords, they are a breed all their own.

One of our neighbors rents a house from one. We have lived in the neighborhood for 50 years. He has never replaced the shingles, painted or repaired leaks. The folks living there can’t afford anything else. This guy owns 250 properties and they are all junky heaps. He doesn’t do anymore than he has to.

My sister rented from several of these sort in her travels across this country. They are the same just about anywhere. I have had only 2 landlords that actually took care of the properties. The rest of them let things go to the bitter end. I even had one that let the toilet water from upstairs leak in my place for 6 weeks. (Oh yes, I reported them…which was about as useful as a $3.00 bill.)
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So what you are saying is that government welfare programs are ineffective at helping the poor rise out of poverty?

How did one of your jobs not contribute to Social Security? Isn’t that illegal? And, historically, 401K’s have a greater return on investment then Social Security does.
 
Cricket2 said:
Minimum wage is not a living wage.
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It is not a living wage, was not meant to be a living wage, and will never be a living wage. You can raise the minimum wage to $100,000 per year and it will solve nothing. It will just create massive inflation, and increase the cost of all products proportionately.
It is absolute poverty.
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You have no idea what absolute poverty is if you live a western country. My adopted children came from absolute poverty.
 
Cricket2 said:
The specter of Globalization, outsourcing of jobs and frozen wages, inflation and the destruction of the middle class has been driving this country downhill sense the early 80’s. We don’t have far to go and we will be just another third world nation out there.

One of the primary effect of outsourcing our jobs to other countries has been to keep are wages down or even decrease them.
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Keep in mind that we have more possessions now because of all of this outsourcing of manufacturing. When manufacturing was here, and products purchased here, people had far less possessions.
 
Birdpreacher said:
good thing the ceo’s at Mcdonalds taught you how to read and basic arithmatic…no what that was the tax payers through public schools, who are also paying for social security benifits to numerous fast food employees.
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The CEO of McDonalds does not set wages for store workers. That is done by the local franchise owner whose profit margin would not allow $15 an hour for unskilled labor.
 
Yerusalyim said:
The CEO of McDonalds does not set wages for store workers. That is done by the local franchise owner whose profit margin would not allow $15 an hour for unskilled labor.
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Can you provide some data on the local owners revenue and expenses to prove your claim?
 
stinkcat_14 said:
Can you provide some data on the local owners revenue and expenses to prove your claim?
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I think the burden is on the side that says there are excess profits from operating a fast food franchise, and those excess profits justify paying the unskilled help more than they are worth.

Read the linked wage/salary report for 2012 and tell me that a fast food clerk has commensurate skills as the jobs listed in the $12-$15 an hour range.

nonprofitroundtable.org/storage/documents/Ultimate_Salary_Guide_for_Washington_DC.pdf
 
PaulinVA said:
I think the burden is on the side that says there are excess profits from operating a fast food franchise, and those excess profits justify paying the unskilled help more than they are worth.
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No, the burden is on the person making the claim. The claim was that McDonalds franchisees cannot afford to pay $15 per hour. That is an empirical question and one that can be proven with data, and of course nobody should be making factual claims without the ability to back it up.
 
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