US Presidential Election Debate #1

  • Thread starter Thread starter Robert_Bay
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
katcecelia said:
Being a member of the working poor myself… I refuse to accept gov’t assistance. I do not believe that others should prop me up. I’m with St. Paul… those who wish to eat must work. I have two disabilities, but I manage. I think, for the most part, the gov’t assistance only perpetuates the cycle of poverty.
Click to expand...
Very good. I also believe that government assistance perpetuates the cycle of poverty. Particularly when the young, like those in high school, see that they might not really have to do anything to coast through life. Some kids take the government up on that and consider it a promise. This is really a waste of their talents and robs them of much enjoyment in achieving things and getting things for themselves that they otherwise would have.

When the government takes away initiative, what you get is something like the soviet union had in its heyday. No reward for working => no reason to work => no production => poverty => drunkedness and mischief and corruption to get things to eat.

Black market etc. is the only thing that ends up motivating some people in that scenario.
 
I have a question…
If Obamacare ir really about getting Americans more equal, more affordable healthcare… then why penalize an Institution, namely the Catholic hospitals, that provide free health care to anyone?
 
iloveangels said:
Very good. I also believe that government assistance perpetuates the cycle of poverty. Particularly when the young, like those in high school, see that they might not really have to do anything to coast through life. Some kids take the government up on that and consider it a promise. This is really a waste of their talents and robs them of much enjoyment in achieving things and getting things for themselves that they otherwise would have.
Click to expand...
I think it has also victimized anyone who thought that gov’t could provide for their retirement (SSI) or even their healthcare. I am watching my parents who didn’t get around to saving for retirement… they have SSI to fall back on. If it hadn’t been a safety net, I don;t see that they would have nothing but that they would have made wiser decisions. I also know that SSI won’t be around when I retire. I think medicare has just encouraged the health industry to raise prices out of the range of any consumer not backed by the gov’t purse.
 
katcecelia said:
I have a question…
If Obamacare ir really about getting Americans more equal, more affordable healthcare… then why penalize an Institution, namely the Catholic hospitals, that provide free health care to anyone?
Click to expand...
Yes, that’s the question that no one wants to answer.

Politics. One of the reasons is that we are a pain in their flank over abortion. Birth control is a diversion. Everyone knows that Catholics use birth control and they’re not technically supposed to. It’s a handle to punish us for public defiance over abortion.

But that’s minor compared to the real issue which is approval. People don’t want to believe that their vices are evil. They want our approval which we can’t give officially. We simply can’t and they don’t realize that. Even the abortion thing isn’t really about women and babies and all that. It’s really, really about approval, social pressure and calling someone out.

For instance, someone who is gay. Their real problem isn’t with us, particularly if they’re not Catholic. Their real problem is with history in the US, their "friends who who give them garbage over it, and their workplaces who won’t give them the benefits they want based on what they say.

If they’re Catholic, they have the added problem of negotiating what the Church teaches about homosexuality, which some of them don’t want to do and are very, very angry with us over. And so they drag everyone else into it to try to change us, which we can’t do.

We make a GREAT target because we’ve made ourselves a target, not because we believe truths, no. But because of how we’ve handled some things in public. It’s all about approval.
 
I don’t believe social justice issues are able to be served by the gov’t… I think they are addressed at the personal and community level… which would be why I don’t see the dem platform of social justice as valid… not just because they fight for the superiority of amorality
 
katcecelia said:
I don’t believe social justice issues are able to be served by the gov’t… I think they are addressed at the personal and community level… which would be why I don’t see the dem platform of social justice as valid… not just because they fight for the superiority of amorality
Click to expand...
I agree with you, but then, I don’t think government is a religion either. I think it’s a practical system at best and a racket at worst.
 
katcecelia said:
Approval
Ah… the self-esteem movement at its extreme…
Click to expand...
Yes, more or less. Only with social classes, lawyers and a sense of vengeance from hell. They’re mad at somebody, and even if we’re not who they’re really mad at, we’ll do.

And what’s better than being approved of by a nun, even though we hardly have nuns anymore, right? (Non-catholics really don’t care whether we have nuns or not, this is all figurative because vague to them, but the approval is very real.)

The only problem is, theologically, we can’t give it to them. Zip, nada. We don’t have it. Rome doesn’t have that power. The pope doesn’t have that power. It doesn’t exist.

Now I mean, people have pretended before that they could do this. LOL. Then you get into deep water, really deep water. Big deep trouble. QUICKLY.
 
Can’t remember who said it but
" that which governs least, governs best"
 
katcecelia said:
I think it has also victimized anyone who thought that gov’t could provide for their retirement (SSI) or even their healthcare. I am watching my parents who didn’t get around to saving for retirement… they have SSI to fall back on. If it hadn’t been a safety net, I don;t see that they would have nothing but that they would have made wiser decisions.
Click to expand...
I disagree. Cost of Living inflation (esp. fuel and housing), combined with meager return on savings, have made it much more difficult in the last 30 years to have control over one’s future reserves. Many fewer people have “disposable income” which can be set aside for retirement.
 
Elizabeth502 said:
I disagree. Cost of Living inflation (esp. fuel and housing), combined with meager return on savings, have made it much more difficult in the last 30 years to have control over one’s future reserves. Many fewer people have “disposable income” which can be set aside for retirement.
Click to expand...
Again, knowing history, specifically what happened during the great depression and FDR’s policies, those esp still in effect, will help to show that policies of entitlement actually exacerbate inflation.
 
katcecelia said:
Again, knowing history, specifically what happened during the great depression and FDR’s policies, those esp still in effect, will help to show that policies of entitlement actually exacerbate inflation.
Click to expand...
Yes, they do. The only way to decrease poverty is to increase the amount of value in the world. That means making things where there were no things before. Period. All the rest of it is just magic tricks and mirrors that end in poverty and hurt.

That was actually the worst thing about the Cash for Clunkers thing. It destroyed value, things that people had made that were still useful. And the consequence was that the price of used vehicles went way up and is still up. Poor people who could have bought a car now can’t.

So a program that was supposed to help poor people ended up hurting them. And it hurt everyone else too. Why? Less value in the world.
 
epan said:
Out of curiosity I checked the FOX website poll on who won the debate. The results were 61% Obama, 39% Romney. Can’t find it now. This is the second time, at least, that they have closed a poll with disagrees with their “fair and balanced” ideology.

Interesting the 2/3’s of FOX viewers thought Obama won.
Click to expand...
Those static polls are not random, they are ripe for manipulation.
Obviously the poll was tweeted among libs.
 
colmywaykurtz said:
What’s everybody think about this?

news.yahoo.com/romney-47-percent-completely-wrong-021604130–election.html
Click to expand...
I know what he meant. The original comment came out of a closed-door session with fund-raising Republicans, and it was not well-said, as he remarked earlier.

But no matter how he explains it now, the MSM is going to take it and run with it because they are what they are. And I won’t elaborate in here. 😛

They must have done some kind of damage calculation going into the debates and figured that between now and the next debate date, now is the best time to clear the air on the comment. That’s all I can think of.

Studies show that gaffes actually don’t make as much difference as some other things now. People are sorta numb to them. Maybe they’re counting on that.

cjr.org/swing_states_project/nyhan_gaffes.php
washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/gaffes-dont-matter/2012/06/08/gJQAoUANOV_blog.html
motherjones.com/mojo/2012/06/why-gaffes-dont-matter-we-talk-about-them-anyway
forbes.com/sites/johnmcquaid/2012/06/04/elizabeth-warren-barack-obama-and-mitt-romney-relax-your-gaffes-dont-matter/
 
epan said:
Out of curiosity I checked the FOX website poll on who won the debate. The results were 61% Obama, 39% Romney. Can’t find it now. This is the second time, at least, that they have closed a poll with disagrees with their “fair and balanced” ideology.

Interesting the 2/3’s of FOX viewers thought Obama won.
Click to expand...
Actually, I was watching FOX last night and you have the poll exactly inverted.

nation.foxnews.com/2012-presidential-debates/2012/10/04/flash-poll-romney-wins-debate-huge-margin

EPAN, please when you claim something like this, GIVE A LINK!!!
 
Re: the 47%… I think his saying it was wrong just makes the whole situation worse. think he should’ve just let it go as poorly said… now he’s alienating those who agreed with his comments, and the MSM will still harass him:(
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top