US Presidential Election Debate #1

[Rich_Olszewski]

Not always. Don’t undersell the American public. What’s happening is interesting. This Benghazi thing is part of the “Lying Motif” that people are picking up on.

I’m with Tampa Dave on this one. Only folks like you who follow such things are getting bothered by the incident. Most Americans know little about it, and care even less. They’ve bigger fish to fry, such as their jobs and the economy, than some terrorist attack in Libya.

 

[rlg94086]

I’m with Tampa Dave on this one. Only folks like you who follow such things are getting bothered by the incident. Most Americans know little about it, and care even less. They’ve bigger fish to fry, such as their jobs and the economy, than some terrorist attack in Libya.

Sure. The President barely showed any concern about the people who died in Libya. Why should the voters?

 

[iloveangels]

I’m with Tampa Dave on this one. Only folks like you who follow such things are getting bothered by the incident. Most Americans know little about it, and care even less. They’ve bigger fish to fry, such as their jobs and the economy, than some terrorist attack in Libya.

The economy alone should sink him.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

I’m with Tampa Dave on this one. Only folks like you who follow such things are getting bothered by the incident. Most Americans know little about it, and care even less. They’ve bigger fish to fry, such as their jobs and the economy, than some terrorist attack in Libya.

Most of the electorate has decided who they will vote for. Some base their vote on single issues, a history of voting the Party ticket, race, religion, the economy, Supreme Court appointments, foreign policy, etc. I’m afraid most Americans will blow off this incident as one more lie to be forgiven (by liberals and Democrats) or one more lie to harp on (by conservatives and Republicans) without much ado by the American public in general.

 

[iloveangels]

So when can we post a “Vice Presidential debate thread”?

I don’t know why you couldn’t start one now. I’m sure there are articles on the preparations they’re doing, the moderator, the format, etc.

 

[iloveangels]

Most of the electorate has decided who they will vote for. Some base their vote on single issues, a history of voting the Party ticket, race, religion, the economy, Supreme Court appointments, foreign policy, etc. I’m afraid most Americans will blow off this incident as one more lie to be forgiven (by liberals and Democrats) or one more lie to harp on (by conservatives and Republicans) without much ado by the American public in general.

There’s a big swing going on right now. Just hang on.
That debate was very powerful. Obamanics don’t like hearing that, but it was. There’s a truism that debates don’t count for much, but I can tell you from 50 years of experience watching politics, sometimes they do. The Kennedy-Nixon debate won the presidency for Jack Kennedy, for instance. This debate may have been of that magnitude.
The number of people who tuned in is an indicator of how many people were open to change. That was Romney’s job interview. A lot of people hadn’t ever seen him without a lot of media yelling going on in the foreground.

The really striking thing about the debate this time around was Obama’s response to it though. Very strange and maybe very telling about him personally. He can’t shut up about it. His response is me, me, me, Big Bird, me, me, me. People are responding to it just about like you’d think they would. The fact is that it’s not about him, and most people know that. He’s not just a celebrity. The presidential election is about us and about the country. Even the most zoned out citizens are aware of that.

I loved that format. It made it easy to see the individual candidates. I hate hearing the media yapping all the time. I DO NOT NEED or WANT them narrating everything for me. I can do it myself, and I think a lot of voters feel that way.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Most of the electorate has decided who they will vote for. Some base their vote on single issues, a history of voting the Party ticket, race, religion, the economy, Supreme Court appointments, foreign policy, etc. I’m afraid most Americans will blow off this incident as one more lie to be forgiven (by liberals and Democrats) or one more lie to harp on (by conservatives and Republicans) without much ado by the American public in general.

Bullseye! Especially about how America is going to vote. There’ll be no surprises.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

There’s a big swing going on right now. Just hang on.
That debate was very powerful. Obamanics don’t like hearing that, but it was. There’s a truism that debates don’t count for much, but I can tell you from 50 years of experience watching politics, sometimes they do. The Kennedy-Nixon debate won the presidency for Jack Kennedy, for instance. This debate may have been of that magnitude.
The number of people who tuned in is an indicator of how many people were open to change. That was Romney’s job interview. A lot of people hadn’t ever seen him without a lot of media yelling going on in the foreground.

I loved that format. It made it easy to see the individual candidates. I hate hearing the media yapping all the time. I DO NOT NEED or WANT them narrating everything for me. I can do it myself, and I think a lot of voters feel that way.

I agree in large part. My post was directed at Rich’s comment that most people will not be affected by the embassy incident. I do believe the debate results have factored into people’s votes. Obama came across like the Empty Suit I truly believe he is. If people cannot see Mitt Romney as much more qualified for the job than Obama, then I will have lost all faith in the American electorate. AS it is, I barely have faith in the electorate now because of their initial election of Obama to the White House.

 

[iloveangels]

I agree in large part. My post was directed at Rich’s comment that most people will not be affected by the embassy incident. I do believe the debate results have factored into people’s votes. Obama came across like the Empty Suit I truly believe he is. If people cannot see Mitt Romney as much more qualified for the job than Obama, then I will have lost all faith in the American electorate. AS it is, I barely have faith in the electorate now because of their initial election of Obama to the White House.

I think the Benghazi thing adds to a large and evident motif.

People are looking for reasons to justify their vote right now, even if they’ve decided emotionally who they want. Motifs matter.

MOTIF
1: a usually recurring salient thematic element (as in the arts); especially : a dominant idea or central theme
2: a single or repeated design or color

A motif was what took George W. Bush down. He didn’t deserve what he got based on any particular thing or he did or lie he said. It was the motif that was built up. People react to these things. If pressed, they’ll give all kinds of emotive statements about things, but the motif is the real deal. That’s what people pay attention to.

Don’t get me wrong: People can say reasons for things, but those are seldom the actual reasons that cause them to vote as they do (except for real logic geeks like maybe you or me). They vote based on the motif, which may or may not be irrational. True. It’s how people work.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I don’t think Christine was being uncharitable but in reality trying to give Obama the benefit of the doubt. He would not be the first or only person used to advance a shadow’s agenda. I think a lot of politicians compromise on many issues thinking that the greater good is that their actual agenda will be promoted.
{snip}
He may well be tired of playing so many parts.

Lisa

You read my mind and articulated it much better than I. I am not so much calling Obama a liar, than he is being fed lies. Bengahzi is a prime example.

Obama has turned grayer over the last four years than I’ve seen any president turn in my life time.

 

[iloveangels]

You read my mind and articulated it much better than I. I am not so much calling Obama a liar, than he is being fed lies. Bengahzi is a prime example.

Does it matter which it is? On the one hand of that discussion, he’d be lying; on the other hand, he’d be so uninvolved that someone else is totally running foreign policy of which he is ignorant. Which way would you rather have it?

Obama has turned grayer over the last four years than I’ve seen any president turn in my life time.

Not sure he expected the presidency to be a tough really high-level executive job. He’s never had a job like that before.

Recall all that at the very beginning of his presidency where his aides had to convince him to wear a suit jacket to work. I mean, it was a big enough deal to hit the news. That.

 

[LisaA]

I agree in large part. My post was directed at Rich’s comment that most people will not be affected by the embassy incident. I do believe the debate results have factored into people’s votes. Obama came across like the Empty Suit I truly believe he is. If people cannot see Mitt Romney as much more qualified for the job than Obama, then I will have lost all faith in the American electorate. AS it is, I barely have faith in the electorate now because of their initial election of Obama to the White House.

Amen to the last comment. I still cannot figure out how so many people were fooled including some of my dear friends. I kept saying LISTEN TO HIM…he will tell you who he is and what he wants. I just think a lot of it was “Not Bush.” I heard interviews with a lot of young people yesterday, virtually all of whom have switched to Romney. They said they were taken in by the idea of a different kind of politician, a fresh new face, something other than a grumpy old white guy. I realize youth are not the deepest thinkers (hence my vote for Carter ) but I suspect many had the same reasons for voting Obama last time. Also the MSM carrying water for him then and now was an obstacle to learning about Obama.

OTOH remember the outrage about Watergate? I want to laugh at the huge hairy deal made out of what were basically political dirty tricks. No one died. America wasn’t attacked, insulted and demeaned by a ragtag group of terrorists.

I think even if people are not so outraged by the attack itself, they will see the overall theme of Obama and his supporters’ dishonesty. You simply cannot trust this man to keep his promises, to speak the truth or even to protect Americans if it means interfering with his theme of “Everyone Loves America because of ME ME ME!!!” I think this is a big deal and the timing couldn’t be worse for Obama’s re-election.

Lisa

 

[He_Man]

I’m with Tampa Dave on this one. Only folks like you who follow such things are getting bothered by the incident. Most Americans know little about it, and care even less. They’ve bigger fish to fry, such as their jobs and the economy, than some terrorist attack in Libya.

Yes, because the polls aren’t changing daily.

I fully expect Romney to hammer Obama over and over in the third debate over this cover up. If it gets 50 million eyeballs (which it will), it is going to be tough to dance around. FP was supposedly going to be his strong suit as far as debates, and Obama managed to screw that up too.

 

[iloveangels]

Amen to the last comment. I still cannot figure out how so many people were fooled including some of my dear friends. I kept saying LISTEN TO HIM…he will tell you who he is and what he wants. I just think a lot of it was “Not Bush.” I heard interviews with a lot of young people yesterday, virtually all of whom have switched to Romney. They said they were taken in by the idea of a different kind of politician, a fresh new face, something other than a grumpy old white guy. I realize youth are not the deepest thinkers (hence my vote for Carter ) but I suspect many had the same reasons for voting Obama last time. Also the MSM carrying water for him then and now was an obstacle to learning about Obama.

M.O.T.I.F.
This is well known in marketing too. IT’s how people work. Obama had a huge and powerful motif for many people.

OTOH remember the outrage about Watergate? I want to laugh at the huge hairy deal made out of what were basically political dirty tricks. No one died. America wasn’t attacked, insulted and demeaned by a ragtag group of terrorists.

Most people can’t tell you anything about Watergate’s details and couldn’t even when it was going on, but Nixon was despised because of it. He stepped down not because of some particular event, but because people thought he was a LIAR. Part of it was Watergate, part of it was his response to being caught, and part of it was his appearance. There was a LIAR motif. People latched onto it.

I think even if people are not so outraged by the attack itself, they will see the overall theme of Obama and his supporters’ dishonesty. You simply cannot trust this man to keep his promises, to speak the truth or even to protect Americans if it means interfering with his theme of “Everyone Loves America because of ME ME ME!!!” I think this is a big deal and the timing couldn’t be worse for Obama’s re-election. Lisa

I agree.

There’s one more interesting thing: The American people, although they don’t follow details closely and like entertainment, do have a compass because they value their freedom on an individual basis. We are born to it. Yes, we abuse it; yes, we diss it. But take it away, and the most decadent or demented American will fight in the street. Americans will forgive just about anything until they get the idea, like a wave, that they’re being had. “Being had” is the most powerful motif of all. And then the administration is TOAST. We’re getting there.

The Democrats better hope they lose this election, because if they don’t and Obama goes on like he has been, the “Being Had” motif is going to be so strong by 2016, that they’re going to get trounced if the Republicans put anyone anywhere coherent on the stump. Obama is no Clinton who can get away with goofy junk while actually doing a passable job.

 

[LisaA]

I think the Benghazi thing adds to a large and evident motif.

People are looking for reasons to justify their vote right now, even if they’ve decided emotionally who they want. Motifs matter.

MOTIF
1: a usually recurring salient thematic element (as in the arts); especially : a dominant idea or central theme
2: a single or repeated design or color

A motif was what took George W. Bush down. He didn’t deserve what he got based on any particular thing or he did or lie he said. It was the motif that was built up. People react to these things. If pressed, they’ll give all kinds of emotive statements about things, but the motif is the real deal. That’s what people pay attention to.

Don’t get me wrong: People can say reasons for things, but those are seldom the actual reasons that cause them to vote as they do (except for real logic geeks like maybe you or me). They vote based on the motif, which may or may not be irrational. True. It’s how people work.

wow that is fascinating! Obama WAS all about “recurring theme” last time.

I also think Romney has suffered by NOT having a motif (love this word!). Hopefully his overall theme will gel as the time before the election grows shorter. I like “Let’s ask the adults back into the room” but it’s kinda long…

Lisa

 

[rlg94086]

FP was supposedly going to be his strong suit as far as debates, and Obama managed to screw that up too.

Everyone has a skill. He is good at failing.

 

[qui_est_ce]

The Obama administration has been given a free pass by the media for so long that they are in an alternate universe. That’s the only reason that I can figure out for a couple of things: a) believing that somehow they could get away with a cover up of this magnitude, and b) believing that Obama could skip his debate prep and just skate in there and win for showing up.

There were so many witnesses to that Benghazi event that the truth is coming out. People do have cell phones with cameras, . There was no riot out front of the embassy last night. That event was not about some obscure film on youtube. And military equipment was used in that attack, and that’s what it was, a military attack.

It’s the media that has short-term memory. The media thinks it controls what the American people think, and to a large extent that may be true. It certainly worked for certain segments of the voting block. Where did they get the idea they were going to get free stuff? We had a long list of “voluntary quits” in 2008 right after Obama was elected. And yes, many of them were echoing the “Obama gonna buy me…” I was shocked when I heard that in real life before my very eyes and ears. These are people who are generally apathetic about going to the polls. These people are what got Obama in, and these people aren’t going to vote this time. I’m sorry if I sound racist, but look up the statistics for yourselves.

For many of us though, we now have a stronger alternative media, Twitter, Foxnews, Conservative Talk Radio, cell phone video. Stories stay alive as long as we need them to be alive.

Fast and Furious, Benghazi-gate, those are not going away.

One of Obama’s promises was a more transparent government. His has been the most secretive? Why? Maybe other people are running things for him.

 

[iloveangels]

wow that is fascinating! Obama WAS all about “recurring theme” last time.

I also think Romney has suffered by NOT having a motif (love this word!). Hopefully his overall theme will gel as the time before the election grows shorter. I like “Let’s ask the adults back into the room” but it’s kinda long…

Lisa

You bet he was. He appeared to be a lot of things that people deeply believe, things that really don’t belong to any particular political party. His handlers made sure that people got the message loud and clear. The problem for them this time is that he’s said so much that he’s no longer a “Barbie Doll” upon which you can hang those things and create that motif.

A significant part of the American population sees that the motif isn’t really the same as Obama. There’s a big mismatch. Americans are forgiving and fair; Obama isn’t. Americans are working hard because they’re having a tough time; Obama isn’t. And so they’re looking for another expression of the things they deeply believe, another motif. They might find it in Romney, the family man, the businessman who could hire them or inspire another business man to hire them, the “not-Obama” man.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

It’s the media that has short-term memory. The media thinks it controls what the American people think, and to a large extent that may be true. It certainly worked for certain segments of the voting block. Where did they get the idea they were going to get free stuff? We had a long list of “voluntary quits” in 2008 right after Obama was elected. And yes, many of them were echoing the “Obama gonna buy me…” I was shocked when I heard that in real life before my very eyes and ears. These are people who are generally apathetic about going to the polls. These people are what got Obama in, and these people aren’t going to vote this time. I’m sorry if I sound racist, but look up the statistics for yourselves.

For many of us though, we now have a stronger alternative media, Twitter, Foxnews, Conservative Talk Radio, cell phone video. Stories stay alive as long as we need them to be alive.

Fast and Furious, Benghazi-gate, those are not going away.

One of Obama’s promises was a more transparent government. His has been the most secretive? Why? Maybe other people are running things for him.

My Indians faded away into oblivion. Living in the Washington, DC area, I have nothing left but hope for the Nationals and the Orioles. Both are looking sad at the moment. I can’t say I wish your Cardinals any luck! So long as the Yankees get beaten, I can pretty much live with any result at the World Series.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Does it matter which it is? On the one hand of that discussion, he’d be lying; on the other hand, he’d be so uninvolved that someone else is totally running foreign policy of which he is ignorant. Which way would you rather have it?

It doesn’t really matter what I’d rather have. I think Pres Obama is uninvolved. “No need to attend security meetings, we’ll let you know if something important comes up. Go play golf.”

Not sure he expected the presidency to be a tough really high-level executive job. He’s never had a job like that before.

My opinion as well. I almost feel as if he got duped by his handlers.

Recall all that at the very beginning of his presidency where his aides had to convince him to wear a suit jacket to work. I mean, it was a big enough deal to hit the news.

Didn’t know about this.