US servicewomen challenge combat role ban

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What good would allowing women to serve as ground combat troops serve? They would be inferior troops, and consequently they would bring the quality of the US military down. They should remain in a position in which they can do a job as well as men.

If they expect to be able to be ground troops they should have to pass the fitness test according to the same standard the men have, because otherwise they are just going to be a liability.
 
jimmy said:
What good would allowing women to serve as ground combat troops serve?
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Apparently someone who matters thinks it’s a good idea. 🤷
A Pentagon spokesman said 14,500 combat positions had been opened to women under the current defence secretary.
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The lawsuit launched on Tuesday says they are barred from 238,000 positions, but also alleges that they are already serving unofficially in combat units.
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Bezant said:
Apparently someone who matters thinks it’s a good idea. 🤷
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A society which sends women into combat is a society that is upside down. It is the logic of liberalism which says that in the name of feminism and equal rights women should “get to” fight in combat. Such a view is against nature - like so many liberal views.

Ishii
 
As a woman, I will say this: if a woman can match up to the same intense standards as a man, she should be allowed to fight alongside them. Denying a capable woman the chance is wrong, but we shouldn’t try to change – lower – the standards just so women CAN fight combat roles.
 
acarlson said:
As a woman, I will say this: if a woman can match up to the same intense standards as a man, she should be allowed to fight alongside them. Denying a capable woman the chance is wrong, but we shouldn’t try to change – lower – the standards just so women CAN fight combat roles.
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The standards have been lower for years. There’s a male version of the Physical Fitness test and a less demanding female version.
 
ishii said:
A society which sends women into combat is a society that is upside down. It is the logic of liberalism which says that in the name of feminism and equal rights women should “get to” fight in combat. Such a view is against nature - like so many liberal views.
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You’re right, we’ve largely moved beyond the barefoot and pregnant motif.

Female Soldier proves dominant in hand-to-hand combat

Also this nice remark from the Marine Corps Gazette:

“Moreover, although warfare may be more prevalent among males, history shows that women have fought in wars in direct physical combat, and fought well. Women have fought effectively both disguised as males and openly as females, and in both single- and mixed-gender units. In addition to the extensive use of women in revolutionary, guerrilla, and partisan warfare (e.g., among the Eritrean rebels and the Sandinistas), women fought in the Serbian and Russian Armies in World War I (e.g., in the “Battalion of Death”), during the Russian Civil War, and for the Army of North Vietnam (and to a lesser extent, South Vietnam) in the Vietnam War. In World War II, hundreds of thousands of Soviet women served in combat as snipers, machinegunners, artillery women, and tank women—probably the largest case of women’s participation in direct combat in modern history. Throughout such wars, women’s combat experience has also included dragging wounded comrades away from the battlefield. The puzzling question is: why, even after women have skillfully and courageously fought in combat, a collective amnesia seems to sweep over nations such that women’s combat service is rendered invisible and forgotten, and women are officially excluded from direct combat in most countries in the world?”
 
oldcatholicguy said:
The standards have been lower for years. There’s a male version of the Physical Fitness test and a less demanding female version.
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And if women want to fight in combat, the standard should be raised to match that of the men.
 
I am all for equal work deserving equal pay and that sort of thing. I have served in ground combat units and believe unequivocally that, if this goes through, it is going to get a whole bunch of people killed.

FACT: though men and women are equal in dignity, they are biologically different. We need to stop pretending otherwise.
 
ishii said:
A society which sends women into combat is a society that is upside down. It is the logic of liberalism which says that in the name of feminism and equal rights women should “get to” fight in combat. Such a view is against nature - like so many liberal views. Ishii
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‘We don’t like it’ is irrelevant here. It’s clearly a civil issue.
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
You’re right, we’ve largely moved beyond the barefoot and pregnant motif.

Female Soldier proves dominant in hand-to-hand combat

Also this nice remark from the Marine Corps Gazette:

“Moreover, although warfare may be more prevalent among males, history shows that women have fought in wars in direct physical combat, and fought well. Women have fought effectively both disguised as males and openly as females, and in both single- and mixed-gender units. In addition to the extensive use of women in revolutionary, guerrilla, and partisan warfare (e.g., among the Eritrean rebels and the Sandinistas), women fought in the Serbian and Russian Armies in World War I (e.g., in the “Battalion of Death”), during the Russian Civil War, and for the Army of North Vietnam (and to a lesser extent, South Vietnam) in the Vietnam War. In World War II, hundreds of thousands of Soviet women served in combat as snipers, machinegunners, artillery women, and tank women—probably the largest case of women’s participation in direct combat in modern history. Throughout such wars, women’s combat experience has also included dragging wounded comrades away from the battlefield. The puzzling question is: why, even after women have skillfully and courageously fought in combat, a collective amnesia seems to sweep over nations such that women’s combat service is rendered invisible and forgotten, and women are officially excluded from direct combat in most countries in the world?”
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Those soviet women served in all women units.
 
oldcatholicguy said:
Those soviet women served in all women units.
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Those soviet women were beasts on the front lines. Nina Alexeyevna killed 300 German soldiers and her company of female snipers were essential to the Russian efforts in the Battle of Berlin.
 
This issue will be decided by people who have not, nor will ever, serve in combat their own selves. In other words: the decision will be made by those who it will impact the least (as these decisions almost always are).
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
Those soviet women were beasts on the front lines. Nina Alexeyevna killed 300 German soldiers and her company of female snipers were essential to the Russian efforts in the Battle of Berlin.
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I’m not saying they weren’t. I’m saying their example really doesn’t fit with what the military is planning to do (integrated combat units).
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
You’re right, we’ve largely moved beyond the barefoot and pregnant motif.

Female Soldier proves dominant in hand-to-hand combat

Also this nice remark from the Marine Corps Gazette:

“Moreover, although warfare may be more prevalent among males, history shows that women have fought in wars in direct physical combat, and fought well. Women have fought effectively both disguised as males and openly as females, and in both single- and mixed-gender units. In addition to the extensive use of women in revolutionary, guerrilla, and partisan warfare (e.g., among the Eritrean rebels and the Sandinistas), women fought in the Serbian and Russian Armies in World War I (e.g., in the “Battalion of Death”), during the Russian Civil War, and for the Army of North Vietnam (and to a lesser extent, South Vietnam) in the Vietnam War. In World War II, hundreds of thousands of Soviet women served in combat as snipers, machinegunners, artillery women, and tank women—probably the largest case of women’s participation in direct combat in modern history. Throughout such wars, women’s combat experience has also included dragging wounded comrades away from the battlefield. The puzzling question is: why, even after women have skillfully and courageously fought in combat, a collective amnesia seems to sweep over nations such that women’s combat service is rendered invisible and forgotten, and women are officially excluded from direct combat in most countries in the world?”
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Amazing! you bring up the conscription of women by communist north Vietnam as reason to support women in combat in the US? Yes, women have fought in combat roles in history when the men were weak and effiminate - or when the totalitarian dictatorship or banana republic needed them. That is increasingly what is going on in our society (weak and effiminate men) . Adam Carolla wrote: " in 50 years we’ll all be chicks." Maybe we already are.

Ishii
 
Bezant said:
‘We don’t like it’ is irrelevant here. It’s clearly a civil issue.
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What’s at issue is common sense, and the state of a society which sends women into combat to die. That is what I want to focus on, sorry if that bothers you.

Ishii
 
ishii said:
What’s at issue is common sense, and the state of a society which sends women into combat to die. That is what I want to focus on, sorry if that bothers you.

Ishii
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I agree. There is something very wrong with this attitude.

Next their gonna be fighting for urinals in the womens bathrooms, because damnit, ‘what men can do standing so can women’.
 
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