USCCB Campaign for Human Development

[JPUSC]

Don’t be too hard on them - as Jesus would say, “Father, forgive them FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO.”

Many middle aged priests have actually been poorly educated and we are seeing more and more foreign ones in our area as well. It should not make a difference if they received their Ordination in Africa or Nome, Alaska, but it does! We just left a parish because the priest was virtually uneducated as to the laws of the church and was permitting many things that by all rights would constitute a scandal. Add that to a very liberal diocese where things are blindly overlooked and add that to the fact that our clerics are suffering from secularism and relativism and every other “ism” you can think of - stir it with a LOSS OF FAITH and voila - it is a potent brew.

It is up to the laity to pray for these poor souls and to keep our ears and eyes open to the Voice of the True Shepherd only. If we pray for our own purification and keep studying our faith, we cannot go astray despite the terrible things we are seeing. Remember that all that is happening in the Church today was prophesied by many of the saints long ago. Perhaps we can alleviate the tribulation that is due to come for our unfaithfulness by our continued prayers for those who don’t seem to embrace the Truth!

And many of the young ones now coming from the good seminaries have true vocations and are obedient to Rome.

Are you suggesting that it is the foreign priests who are poorly educated?

In my experience, it is the foreign priests who are more faithful to Church teaching. It’s too bad that many of them are taken from their homeland to minister in the U.S. because of the vocations crisis here.

 

[KathleenElsie]

In my experience, it is the foreign priests who are more faithful to Church teaching. It’s too bad that many of them are taken from their homeland to minister in the U.S. because of the vocations crisis here.

 

[Tigg]

Are you suggesting that it is the foreign priests who are poorly educated?

In my experience, it is the foreign priests who are more faithful to Church teaching. It’s too bad that many of them are taken from their homeland to minister in the U.S. because of the vocations crisis here.

No, I was speaking in general terms; however, I will tell you that the pastor of the parish I was talking about in my prior post was from Nigeria. But please read the rest of my comment…liberal diocese, etc.

 

[RWMorris]

The Wanderer has been covering the very serious problems at CCHD for years. This is a recent editorial.

Scroll down to “The Chickens Have Come Home to Roost”

Wow, just read this. Not only did I not vote for Obama, but money that I gave to help the poor was actually spent to help elect Obama.

Ouch! Talk about adding insult to injury!

The USCCB will never get another dime from me, never, never, never!

 

[elgar]

Wow, just read this. Not only did I not vote for Obama, but money that I gave to help the poor was actually spent to help elect Obama.

Ouch! Talk about adding insult to injury!

The USCCB will never get another dime from me, never, never, never!

I’m sure to suggest to a liberal bishop/priest/catholic to read an article out of the “Wanderer” would be tantamount to telling some of my liberal co-workers to start listening to FOX News for another view on matters. For some reason it is hard-coded in to stick to the same old–however they feel it’s new–way of thinking.

After reading the article, this looks like a little church and state conflict here. Maybe the IRS should get a “heads up”.

 

[sauce]

The more I read, the more upset I get. The bishops need a course correction.

 

[rien]

The more I read, the more upset I get. The bishops need a course correction.

I don’t see the existing bishops taking a new course. If anything they are more set in their existing course. Most need to be replaced or nothing will change. It will continue to degenerate.

The Archdiocese of SF at its website assures visitors that no Archdioceasn funds were spent supportiung Proposition 8. I guess that is a bad thing to do or have done in the eyes of the bishop.

Yet this Archdioces has supported ACORN through its contributions the the CCHD. Locally is supports empowerment and socila programs in various forms with great pride.

Yet the Archidioces needs to re-assure folks that it did not contribute to 8. What message does this send? The website quotes the Archbishop " proponents (and opponents) of Prop. 8 “need to stop talking as if we are experts on the real motives of people…”.

www.sfarchdiocese.org

I’ll leave it to the reader to interpret that admonition.

Rome can dally but it has not only has two generations in America due to failing to proclaim the faith here but now orthodox Catholics are either starting to question their faith and faith altogether or convert to Orthodoxy.

Rod Dreher of Texas newspaper fame was a much noted convert to Catholicism from evangelicalism a few years back. More recently he has converted to Orthdoxy. Because of the faith and witness, or the lack thereof, of American bishops in the priest pedophile scandals. And the failure of Rome to do anything.

IMO the US church is in defacto schism and I can only guess why Rome has and continues to ignore this. Not only are millions of souls here put in jeopardy but, if one is to believe Scripture, many shephards may also be in jeopardy.

 

[RobbyS]

Wow, just read this. Not only did I not vote for Obama, but money that I gave to help the poor was actually spent to help elect Obama.

Ouch! Talk about adding insult to injury!

The USCCB will never get another dime from me, never, never, never!

The USCCB has become more and more a political rather than a religious body. This is due more to the bureaucracy it has created than to the bishops. They run the shop and set the agenda, and even in the last meeting tried to dampen the issue of abortion .

 

[Tigg]

I don’t see the existing bishops taking a new course. If anything they are more set in their existing course. Most need to be replaced or nothing will change. It will continue to degenerate.

The Archdiocese of SF at its website assures visitors that no Archdioceasn funds were spent supportiung Proposition 8. I guess that is a bad thing to do or have done in the eyes of the bishop.

Yet this Archdioces has supported ACORN through its contributions the the CCHD. Locally is supports empowerment and socila programs in various forms with great pride.

Yet the Archidioces needs to re-assure folks that it did not contribute to 8. What message does this send? The website quotes the Archbishop " proponents (and opponents) of Prop. 8 “need to stop talking as if we are experts on the real motives of people…”.

www.sfarchdiocese.org

I’ll leave it to the reader to interpret that admonition.

Rome can dally but it has not only has two generations in America due to failing to proclaim the faith here but now orthodox Catholics are either starting to question their faith and faith altogether or convert to Orthodoxy.

Rod Dreher of Texas newspaper fame was a much noted convert to Catholicism from evangelicalism a few years back. More recently he has converted to Orthdoxy. Because of the faith and witness, or the lack thereof, of American bishops in the priest pedophile scandals. And the failure of Rome to do anything.

**IMO the US church is in defacto schism **and I can only guess why Rome has and continues to ignore this. Not only are millions of souls here put in jeopardy but, if one is to believe Scripture, many shephards may also be in jeopardy.

I have to agree and I think it started back in the late '60’s when there was such controversy over Humanae Vitae and it suddenly became fashionable for American clergy to dispute the message from Rome. And that false message “tickled the ears” of everyone in this country wanting to hear it. So look where we are today! Only a shell of our beautiful faith is left. Let’s pray that the remnant Church in this country continue to be faithful and strong!

 

[rien]

I have to agree and I think it started back in the late '60’s when there was such controversy over Humanae Vitae and it suddenly became fashionable for American clergy to dispute the message from Rome. And that false message “tickled the ears” of everyone in this country wanting to hear it. So look where we are today! Only a shell of our beautiful faith is left. Let’s pray that the remnant Church in this country continue to be faithful and strong!

Indeed. Only about 50 bishops were vocal on abortion and life issues this past election. Father Thomas Reese, who comes from a liberal Catholic perspective, says that number is inflated.

But even if it is not inflated, that is well less than half the US bishops. Shocking given the situation and implications.

The doublespeak in the bishops’ Faithful Citizenship letter said among other things “as Catholics we are not single issue voters”. IMO this was a wink and a nod from th bishops to, if not encourage Catholic votes for pro-choice candidates, certainly a clear effort not to discourage such either.

Indeed Father Greeley said that the reason a majority of Catholic voters went for Obama was that while he did not reject abortion “he supported most of the other Catholic positions on life”. Greeley then listed racism, war and torture as some of these positions.

The bishops’ letter opened the door here IMO - and intentionally so IMO.

As to the defacto schism - this time weekly Mass going Catholics voted only 51% for the pro-life candidate, and 49% for the pro-choice candidate. In America it will be increasingly hard to insist that weekly Catholic communicants are orthodox and accept the Magesterium in its teachings.

This is why I say the US church is in schism - cause even the regular church goers are 50/50 on supporting key Catholic teaching.

In the likely event Congress passes FOCA I think you will see the schism go open in the US. I think a number of bishops, dioceses and Catholic groups will choose to keep hospitals open and perform abortions, offer full contraceptive services. It will be done because of the Catholic “option for the poor”. I don’t expect to see any significant closing of Catholic hospitals.

Indeed I think the pro-choice forces will use this as in part a means to break up the Catholic church in the US. They dislike the church, they know its in schism here and IMO many would love to see FOCA be the catalyst to bring that schism into the open.

 

[Tigg]

Indeed. Only about 50 bishops were vocal on abortion and life issues this past election. Father Thomas Reese, who comes from a liberal Catholic perspective, says that number is inflated.

But even if it is not inflated, that is well less than half the US bishops. Shocking given the situation and implications.

The doublespeak in the bishops’ Faithful Citizenship letter said among other things “as Catholics we are not single issue voters”. IMO this was a wink and a nod from th bishops to, if not encourage Catholic votes for pro-choice candidates, certainly a clear effort not to discourage such either.

Indeed Father Greeley said that the reason a majority of Catholic voters went for Obama was that while he did not reject abortion “he supported most of the other Catholic positions on life”. Greeley then listed racism, war and torture as some of these positions.

The bishops’ letter opened the door here IMO - and intentionally so IMO.

As to the defacto schism - this time weekly Mass going Catholics voted only 51% for the pro-life candidate, and 49% for the pro-choice candidate. In America it will be increasingly hard to insist that weekly Catholic communicants are orthodox and accept the Magesterium in its teachings.

This is why I say the US church is in schism - cause even the regular church goers are 50/50 on supporting key Catholic teaching.

In the likely event Congress passes FOCA I think you will see the schism go open in the US. I think a number of bishops, dioceses and Catholic groups will choose to keep hospitals open and perform abortions, offer full contraceptive services. It will be done because of the Catholic “option for the poor”. I don’t expect to see any significant closing of Catholic hospitals.

Indeed I think the pro-choice forces will use this as in part a means to break up the Catholic church in the US. They dislike the church, they know its in schism here and IMO many would love to see FOCA be the catalyst to bring that schism into the open.

Amazing isn’t it? Why call yourself Catholic if you choose to reject half of Church teaching?

We musn’t underestimate the damage done by lib theology. Everything is twisted, now, in the name of the poor and social justice. If you try to defend true teaching, you are accused of being unsympathetic toward the oppressed and not understanding of the Kingdom values of Christ.

That’s Satan’s plan - confusion, misunderstanding and a perversion of what should be good and holy.

 

[elgar]

Amazing isn’t it? Why call yourself Catholic if you choose to reject half of Church teaching?

We musn’t underestimate the damage done by lib theology. Everything is twisted, now, in the name of the poor and social justice. If you try to defend true teaching, you are accused of being unsympathetic toward the oppressed and not understanding of the Kingdom values of Christ.

That’s Satan’s plan - confusion, misunderstanding and a perversion of what should be good and holy.

Had another group discussion on “Screwtape” this morning after church. Satan cannot create, but perverts good things. Tigg, you are so right. Like Pope Paul VI said years ago, the smoke of Satan has indeed entered and thrives in the Catholic church today, most having to do with bishops and priests rejecting HV outright and granting absolution to the laity in the confessional.

I get so tired of the Fr. Reeses and Greeleys who pervert and spin the truth to support their political leanings. A question for Greeley: you said Obama "supported most of the other Catholic positions on life liker racism, war and torture. You are being SO dishonest. Please cite facts where John McCain was for these things. Yes, he did vote to go to war, but a hasty retreat back when we were losing, would have caused massive deaths. Not pro-life when you look at the numbers. People can be such saps!

 

[sauce]

Yes, it really looks like we are in trouble here. When I was younger, I pretty much thought I was cool–and I was. However, you can be cool and be holy too. We don’t hear too much about holiness anymore. Really. We have to hear it. We have to. I’m going to speak out more on this. Maybe rattle a few cages (yes cages) along the way. Following Christ is intense and requires a lot more from you than following the crowd. The mainstream has really turned me off. And cardinals and bishops who play the game turn me off. We need to see something wonderfully revolutionary among us. Business as usual and scared complacent clergy are frequent contributors to this lousy disease in the church. And us too I suppose. Catholics have got to get back to core values and a hunger for holiness. Balance, awareness, deeper spirituality. And tough discernment.

This whole thing with money and the CCHD has got me in an uproar. The bishops issue a statement and expect us to just accept it and cough up more dough. NO. I DON’T THINK SO.
AND I AM SO PEACEFUL WITH THAT.

I was thinking. Perhaps this economical crisis we’re in is a gift.
A blessing in disguise. A correction for everyone. I still maintain that God knows what he is doing and allows things for a greater good. What do you all think?

 

[elgar]

Yes, it really looks like we are in trouble here. When I was younger, I pretty much thought I was cool–and I was. However, you can be cool and be holy too. We don’t hear too much about holiness anymore. Really. We have to hear it. We have to. I’m going to speak out more on this. Maybe rattle a few cages (yes cages) along the way. Following Christ is intense and requires a lot more from you than following the crowd. The mainstream has really turned me off. And cardinals and bishops who play the game turn me off. We need to see something wonderfully revolutionary among us. Business as usual and scared complacent clergy are frequent contributors to this lousy disease in the church. And us too I suppose. Catholics have got to get back to core values and a hunger for holiness. Balance, awareness, deeper spirituality. And tough discernment.

This whole thing with money and the CCHD has got me in an uproar. The bishops issue a statement and expect us to just accept it and cough up more dough. NO. I DON’T THINK SO.
AND I AM SO PEACEFUL WITH THAT.

I was thinking. Perhaps this economical crisis we’re in is a gift.
A blessing in disguise. A correction for everyone. I still maintain that God knows what he is doing and allows things for a greater good. What do you all think?

As much as I hate to see people losing their jobs, a severe economic crisis might just jolt the masses into a different mind set. Too bad it takes a crisis to turn people around but it’s always been that way. I know in my own situation where my wife and I are pretty secure in our employment and a mortgage at a dandy fixed rate, I feel more compelled to reach out to those in need. There are plenty of good causes to choose from and I don’t need a group like USCCB to make the decision for me. There is no controversy with a group like your local Salvation Army and it is actually a Christian one at that.

 

[rien]

As much as I hate to see people losing their jobs, a severe economic crisis might just jolt the masses into a different mind set. Too bad it takes a crisis to turn people around but it’s always been that way. I know in my own situation where my wife and I are pretty secure in our employment and a mortgage at a dandy fixed rate, I feel more compelled to reach out to those in need. There are plenty of good causes to choose from and I don’t need a group like USCCB to make the decision for me. There is no controversy with a group like your local Salvation Army and it is actually a Christian one at that.

Locally the safest groups to give to are the Salvation Army, Mormons and evangelical outreches IMO. In terms of the life and family issues there is not just one message preached but practiced.

I no longer give a Thanksgiving/XMAS meal donation to the Catholic soup kitchen here because it is basically an ACORN-like empowerment group. I give to a large evangelical feeding charity which lets the folks needing its services know they are a Christian group and that they offer spiritual counseling to thoise who want it, but do not force it on anyone coming through their programs.

 

[JPUSC]

Locally the safest groups to give to are the Salvation Army, Mormons and evangelical outreches IMO. In terms of the life and family issues there is not just one message preached but practiced.

I no longer give a Thanksgiving/XMAS meal donation to the Catholic soup kitchen here because it is basically an ACORN-like empowerment group. I give to a large evangelical feeding charity which lets the folks needing its services know they are a Christian group and that they offer spiritual counseling to thoise who want it, but do not force it on anyone coming through their programs.

Funny that some Catholics have to resort to giving to Protestant groups because they can’t trust their own Catholic organizations.

 

[sauce]

I don’t want USCB choosing for me either. Eventually the church will have to ask itself why people don’t want to give. And you’re right, there usually aren’t any controversies involving the Salvation Army. Wonder why?

I think we are experiencing a purge. Who knows how this will play out? It pays to be as informed as possible.

 

[thomasf]

It is important to keep something in mind here. While there are times and places to call the bishops and the leadership of the church into question, that should not lead us to call all of the church into question. Nor is it reason to give up hope and faith in the church. Jesus promised us, the gates of hell will not prevail. He did not promise us that hell wouldn’t try.

We can protest and call for reform. We can call for the bishops to be more faithful and solid in teachings. We can bemoan the fact that the faith has taken hits and is under attack. But we should not use these things allow us to question our faith, or suggest that the church will fail.

What the church needs now isn’t people tearing it apart. It needs faithful catholics to remain faithful and hold the bishops and priests accountable, and demand that they stay true to the one true faith. When things like the CHD come up, we must stand up and call the bishops to account. But we can’t get discouraged or negative about the faith. That is exactly what hell wants, discouraged catholics who give up. Things like this must make us stronger, not tear us down.

The catholic faith is still the one true faith and we should all keep this in mind when speaking about these issues. It is certainly not a cause to give up hope or faith in Jesus’ church.

 

[elgar]

It is important to keep something in mind here. While there are times and places to call the bishops and the leadership of the church into question, that should not lead us to call all of the church into question. Nor is it reason to give up hope and faith in the church. Jesus promised us, the gates of hell will not prevail. He did not promise us that hell wouldn’t try.

We can protest and call for reform. We can call for the bishops to be more faithful and solid in teachings. We can bemoan the fact that the faith has taken hits and is under attack. But we should not use these things allow us to question our faith, or suggest that the church will fail.

What the church needs now isn’t people tearing it apart. It needs faithful catholics to remain faithful and hold the bishops and priests accountable, and demand that they stay true to the one true faith. When things like the CHD come up, we must stand up and call the bishops to account. But we can’t get discouraged or negative about the faith. That is exactly what hell wants, discouraged catholics who give up. Things like this must make us stronger, not tear us down.

The catholic faith is still the one true faith and we should all keep this in mind when speaking about these issues. It is certainly not a cause to give up hope or faith in Jesus’ church.

Something to keep in mind is how we get our information in these modern times. Before television and the internet we wouldn’t know what goes on behind the closed doors of these groups. By and large, we still don’t. We want to be informed now and the bishops are used to the old way of doing things. That of course is changing and I think for the better. For better or worse, the sex abuse scandals have forced transparency from them and some probably long for the olden days or counting the days to retirement.

 

[Teelynn]

It is important to keep something in mind here. While there are times and places to call the bishops and the leadership of the church into question, that should not lead us to call all of the church into question. Nor is it reason to give up hope and faith in the church. Jesus promised us, the gates of hell will not prevail. He did not promise us that hell wouldn’t try.

We can protest and call for reform. We can call for the bishops to be more faithful and solid in teachings. We can bemoan the fact that the faith has taken hits and is under attack. But we should not use these things allow us to question our faith, or suggest that the church will fail.

What the church needs now isn’t people tearing it apart. It needs faithful catholics to remain faithful and hold the bishops and priests accountable, and demand that they stay true to the one true faith. When things like the CHD come up, we must stand up and call the bishops to account. But we can’t get discouraged or negative about the faith. That is exactly what hell wants, discouraged catholics who give up. Things like this must make us stronger, not tear us down.

The catholic faith is still the one true faith and we should all keep this in mind when speaking about these issues. It is certainly not a cause to give up hope or faith in Jesus’ church.

I believe (and pray and hope) that most who are so upset about the Bishop’s misguidance, are upset because of total dedication to the true Church of Christ and all that it represents. As for me, I get passionately upset because I am SO PASSIONATE about the true Church of Jesus Christ. Am assuming that we are all on the same page.

But yes, this is an excellent reminder.