USCCB Condemns Separating Immigrant Children from Families

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Sarcelle said:
Yet this is what the USCCB recommends that we do. A catch and release with electronic monitoring.
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There are lots of them in that program already. And, of course, they’re supported by taxpayers the whole time, and not by Central American or even Mexican standards, but by American standards.
 
Mexico is, indeed, a racist society. What your article is talking about is racism, not hostility to Central Americans in particular. Mayan speaking Mexicans are considered “Indios” and aren’t welcome in other parts of Mexico where the prevailing ethnicity is “the Race” (La Raza) or Mestizos. Some, but not all, Central Americans are very “Indio” in appearance and speak some Mayan dialect or other.
 
Yet you don’t hear a lot of outrage over this and it is the US that is being excoriated daily in the press. Is Mexico being taken to task for this behavior? I doubt it.

Why the double standard?
 
I know several Hondurans, a couple of them are my godparents. If you saw them on the streets they look white.

I guess the higher classes in Central America have more Spanish ancestry while the indigenous people remain dispossessed in their own land. Kind of like native Hawaiians.
 
Sarcelle said:
I guess the higher classes in Central America have more Spanish ancestry while the indigenous people remain dispossessed in their own land. Kind of like native Hawaiians.
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The same is somewhat true in Mexico too. Ever watch a Mexican soap opera? My wife used to do home health and some of those women would watch those soap operas. All the favorable characters are very, very white. There are other kinds of “Indios” in Mexico, but the biggest concentration of them is in Yucatan.
 
Yes, I have seen Mexican telenovelas and you think Mexico was a county of Spain if you go by the vast majority of actors and actresses.

Occasionally someone with more native features will appear but they are usually cast into more servile roles.
 
Actually, if you look at Mexican bigwigs generally, you would think the same thing. They’re mighty white.

A Mexican priest once said some things about that. He is of Yaqui descent, or at least of that group of miscellaneous Mexicans said to be that. Anyway, he referred to himself as “black”. But he’s not black. Yes, he’s pretty dark as Mexicans go, but certainly not the darkest. He said that at a point in one’s hue, one is said to be “black”. As a pretty “Indio” man, that’s what he was considered. And he made it clear it’s not a good thing in Mexico to be “black”.

Worst off of all, I understand, are actual African-descended people. There is no place in Mexico for them.
 
This is late but to be fair, perhaps it is simply difficult for poor migrants to gather evidence in order to support their case (not easy to get cartel threats documented) due to reasons (and some of the authorities in those places may be corrupt and providing cover for the cartels). It appears these people are in a difficult place with little to no options. This issue is a trying and difficult issue (balancing justice and mercy).

Personally, I’m divided.
 
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Ridgerunner said:
Restatement of fallacy termed “argument from silence”. You can’t conclude anything from the silence of virtually all bishops, other than that they have so far at least, chosen to be silent.
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Yes, you can, and that fallacy is not always a fallacy, if you look into it. There has not been silence. Many bishops have spoken, and spoken with one voice
 
Ridgerunner said:
And, of course, they’re supported by taxpayers the whole time, and not by Central American or even Mexican standards, but by American standards.
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What are you talking about. Foreign nationals are not eligible for any welfare programs, and the largest majority of them work. If you are saying the electronic monitoring uses tax dollars, I will remind everyone once again that taxpayers were paying $600 a day for incarcerating the children. That would be the place to cut waste.
 
pnewton said:
Many bishops have spoken, and spoken with one voice
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Four.
pnewton said:
What are you talking about. Foreign nationals are not eligible for any welfare programs, and the largest majority of them work. If you are saying the electronic monitoring uses tax dollars, I will remind everyone once again that taxpayers were paying $600 a day for incarcerating the children. That would be the place to cut waste.
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Foreign nationals very frequently receive public benefits of all kinds, and not just things like free schooling, school lunches, etc. Ask a welfare worker. The bane of their existence are foreigners who manipulate the system in order to get welfare.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Four
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No, individual dioceses and archdioceses, as well. Go to your favorite search engine and enter diocese, supports, keeping, families, together, border. These were my first immediate hits.

https://cruxnow.com/church-in-the-u...ogram-to-prevent-family-separation-at-border/


Ridgerunner said:
Ask a welfare worker. The bane of their existence are foreigners who manipulate the system in order to get welfare.
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Thanks. But as a social worker, I promise that’s not the “bane of my existence.” :roll_eyes:

 
Citing a magazine article doesn’t tell us anything other than that you do not have experience as a social worker dealing with welfare fraud.

I know social workers who actually work with illegals, and they are quite frustrated by the ways illegals have of tapping the welfare system. On the most basic level, they, like employers, are not allowed to look beyond facially valid ID. One of the most common tricks is for a person who IS legal to claim the children of someone who is not. That increases the welfare benefits to the legal person, which of course gets shared.

And since most illegals are employed by employers who pay unemployment taxes, illegals get those benefits too. And of course, the workers’ compensation system pays illegals even when it knows they’re illegals.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Citing a magazine article doesn’t tell us anything other than that you do not have experience as a social worker dealing with welfare fraud.
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You’ll learn a lot if you actually read the article.

I can recall one “moochy” family - white American citizens - who constantly came to our agency “wanting things.” They still were poor and qualified for all of the benefits they were receiving.
Ridgerunner said:
I know social workers who actually work with illegals, and they are quite frustrated by the ways illegals have of tapping the welfare system.
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First of all, you’ll be hard-pressed to find an ethical social worker who refers to undocumented immigrants with the bigoted term “illegals.” Illegal is an adjective, not a noun, unless used as bigoted slang. I did “actually work with” undocumented immigrants. Most of the time they were too frightened to seek services for fear of being turned in, so I didn’t have a problem with them trying to game the system.
Ridgerunner said:
And since most illegals are employed by employers who pay unemployment taxes, illegals get those benefits too. And of course, the workers’ compensation system pays illegals even when it knows they’re illegals.
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Have you ever jaywalked? Gone more than 5 miles over the speed limit? I’m going to start calling you an illegal.

Statistically speaking, undocumented immigrants give more than they receive, something else you would have learned if you’d taken time to read the link.
“In one estimate, immigrants earn about $240 billion a year, pay about $90 billion a year in taxes, and use about $5 billion in public benefits,” a 2010 report by the Council found. “In another cut of the data, immigrant tax payments total $20 to $30 billion more than the amount of government services they use.” And a report by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce in 2013 found that “more than half of undocumented immigrants have federal and state income, Social Security, and Medicare taxes automatically deducted from their paychecks.”
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Illegal is just a technical term and not a derogatory term.

They are residing here illegally in violation of immigration law.

As a legal immigrant myself, I cannot see why so many people defend the lawbreaking activity of illegal immigrants. Legal immigrants spend so many years waiting to come in legally and yet there is much more sympathy for those who flout the law to come in illegally.

There is also the black market of stolen identities among illegal immigrants so the term undocumented immigrant may not even apply. They do have documents which are stolen. Illegal immigrants themselves are subject to exploitation and human trafficking. I don’t see how tolerating illegal immigration is beneficial to anyone even illegal immigrants.

Employers who often too willing to employ those here illegally also are unfair competition to those employers who do follow the law.

So with illegal immigration, everyone loses.
 
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Other studies say the exact opposite. Depends on what all you count.

Your source favors illegal immigrants, and that’s fine. But it doesn’t tell us a thing about what welfare workers actually experience. I know welfare workers and cheating is very widespread.
Sarcelle said:
There is also the black market of stolen identities among illegal immigrants so the term undocumented immigrant may not even apply. They do have documents which are stolen. Illegal immigrants themselves are subject to exploitation and human trafficking
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Fake ID is almost always the product of stolen ID. Young Hispanic men are the most frequent victims of ID theft because of the market for it. Interesting to talk to lawyers who do family law. Not infrequently, young Hispanic men get their wages garnished for the benefit of some mother they don’t even know. They have to go through DNA testing to prove they are NOT the person who has the same ID. Same thing with criminal warrants. Sometimes totally innocent men get arrested on warrants issued on the OTHER person with the same ID.
 
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