Using shalom instead of peace be with you?

[cemiller]

Yes, and no. By not talking to the priest to begin with, one has already assumed a confrontational attitude.

It’s not like you don’t see the guy every week, or every day in some cases. Feel him out first, if he still seems wackadoo, *then *check here.

Matthew 18:15-17, tells us to go to the person first; going to “the Church” is the last recourse.

He’s doing this backward, and it’s inciting hatred and needless criticism.

((I think most of us are over the whole hand holding thing, BTW )
Ah, these poor pastors have such hard jobs; the negativity should be reigned in as much as possible. Yes?

I am coming here to ask about it to make sure that I am even correct in my assumptions before I bother talking to a Priest about something that may not be an issue to start with. I have mentioned no names and no Parish. There is no way that this could possiblely start a rumor. He is one of 2 Priests that we have at our Parish, and he does a lot of stuff that I’m not fond of. I’ve been attending this Parish for almost a year and a half, and this isn’t the first time that I’ve had questions about the changes he makes to the Mass. Changes in posture, changes, in wording, and something interjecting things in places that I don’t think they belong. I’m not sure what the problem with checking your facts first are, but I’m collecting this information so that I might be able to talk to him about it, without making what I say sound like unfounded complaints. I want to find the right information to hand him, to let him know that it’s not a personal problem I have with him, but that he is stepping outside the approved Liturgical norms, if he even is… I’m sorry if that offends you, but I was under the assumption that this is what this forum is for is to garner information…

 

[cemiller]

Am I wrong but is not “holding hands during the Our Father” a banned topic to be avoided.

Or inspirecarrol its good for people to research their opinions to see if they confirm to church teaching before they talk to a priest.

It wasn’t the last time I checked, but I will look again. If it is then I apologize to the mods for including that in the post!

 

[agnes_therese]

I don’t see where you’ve done anything wrong. As you say, you haven’t named the parish or the priest. And you haven’t been disrespectful. There’s nothing wrong with trying to find out where you stand, and what the sources are, before speaking with the priest. In fact, that’s very prudent.

I am coming here to ask about it to make sure that I am even correct in my assumptions before I bother talking to a Priest about something that may not be an issue to start with. I have mentioned no names and no Parish. There is no way that this could possiblely start a rumor. He is one of 2 Priests that we have at our Parish, and he does a lot of stuff that I’m not fond of. I’ve been attending this Parish for almost a year and a half, and this isn’t the first time that I’ve had questions about the changes he makes to the Mass. Changes in posture, changes, in wording, and something interjecting things in places that I don’t think they belong. I’m not sure what the problem with checking your facts first are, but I’m collecting this information so that I might be able to talk to him about it, without making what I say sound like unfounded complaints. I want to find the right information to hand him, to let him know that it’s not a personal problem I have with him, but that he is stepping outside the approved Liturgical norms, if he even is… I’m sorry if that offends you, but I was under the assumption that this is what this forum is for is to garner information…

 

[Phemie]

Per GIRM 82, what is done at the Sign of Peace is determined by the Conference of Catholic Bishops.

GIRM 152 that has been quoted is the Universal GIRM. I find no adaptation in the US GIRM (the one on the Vatican website) to indicate they’ve ordered a national gesture at this point.

The Canadian Conference, OTOH, has adapted GIRM 82 to read:

1. There follows the Rite of Peace, by which the Church entreats peace and unity for herself and for the whole human family, and the faithful express to each other their ecclesial communion and mutual charity before communicating in the Sacrament.

In the dioceses of Canada, the sign of peace is given by a handshake or a bow. However, it is appropriate that each person offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner.

 

[johnnykins]

If he’s intent on using foreign languages - just say “Pax te cum”

Let’s face it the issue is not the use of a foreign language, Hebrew, Aramaic, Latin, French, Russian, Spanish, Swahili, Tagalog, Urdu, etc., as they are used in appropriate settings and locales.

The issue is the priest trying to improperly impose a language on the congregation for what appears, at first blush, to be some sort of misplaced attachment to Hebrew.

Make like Nancy Reagan and “Just say ‘[Peace be with you]’” …

 

[mamaslo]

One of our local Priests likes to get everyone to say Shalom during the Sign of Peace. Is that ok? He also tries to get everyone to hold hands, even moving out into the center aisle to hold hands with the other row of pews. I’m almost certain that is not correct either, but I’m just trying to be sure of all this. Thank you for any responses

Well, I do know we have been told not to use the term “Yahweh” anymore out of respect of our Jewish brothers and sisters. I would think this would apply here.

We believe in both but it has come to light that it is unacceptable to them and out of compassion we were asked not to use the term. Songs have been rewritten because of it.

That was my reasoning when you asked the question. I think it would apply. You may ask your priest in the form of a question “Father, i have learned that the Catholic Church does not use the word 'Yahweh” out of respect for the Jewish people, does this also apply to the word ‘Shalom’"? or is it because it is referring to peace not to God it is acceptable?

About the holding hands. I may get reemed for this, but I have no problems holding hands with others. During the passing of the peace when I was in middle school. We all started to hold hands during that and it was when my mother started to hug me and my brothers…that I can remember. It built up our domestic church and I think helps us love our neighbor.

Although, as someone else put it, the emphasis should be on our “Guest of honor”. Jesus in the Eucharist. It is all about Him. When the Church doesn’t tell us we have to, then I think there is a little leeway somehow.

But I am no expert. Far from it. These are good questions for your priest. Maybe he can make sense of it or clarify.

 

[lizaanne]

:banghead: UGH!

:banghead:I KNOW!

:banghead:

Adding mine to the mix.

This is – yet again – another wonderful example of eliminating the extended sign of peace altogether. I am so eternally grateful to our priests that we do not have to mess with this at our parish. We have just done away with it entirely. The Mass flows so much more nicely, Jesus is no longer ignored on the altar while everyone whoops it up in the aisles, and our prayerful focus is not interrupted.

~Liza

 

[GEddie]

Well, I do know we have been told not to use the term “Yahweh” anymore out of respect of our Jewish brothers and sisters. I would think this would apply here.

We believe in both but it has come to light that it is unacceptable to them and out of compassion we were asked not to use the term. Songs have been rewritten because of it.

That was my reasoning when you asked the question. I think it would apply. You may ask your priest in the form of a question “Father, i have learned that the Catholic Church does not use the word 'Yahweh” out of respect for the Jewish people, does this also apply to the word ‘Shalom’"? or is it because it is referring to peace not to God it is acceptable?

About the holding hands. I may get reemed for this, but I have no problems holding hands with others. During the passing of the peace when I was in middle school. We all started to hold hands during that and it was when my mother started to hug me and my brothers…that I can remember. It built up our domestic church and I think helps us love our neighbor.

Although, as someone else put it, the emphasis should be on our “Guest of honor”. Jesus in the Eucharist. It is all about Him. When the Church doesn’t tell us we have to, then I think there is a little leeway somehow.

But I am no expert. Far from it. These are good questions for your priest. Maybe he can make sense of it or clarify.

The name Yahweh has been dropped out of respect because Judaism never utters it; this would not apply to “Shalom”. They use that word all the time.

ICXC NIKA

 

[malphono]

Well, I do know we have been told not to use the term “Yahweh” anymore out of respect of our Jewish brothers and sisters. I would think this would apply here.

We believe in both but it has come to light that it is unacceptable to them and out of compassion we were asked not to use the term. Songs have been rewritten because of it.

That was my reasoning when you asked the question. I think it would apply. You may ask your priest in the form of a question “Father, i have learned that the Catholic Church does not use the word 'Yahweh” out of respect for the Jewish people, does this also apply to

FWIW, it seems to me that it wouldn’t apply.

In the first case, the Tetragrammaton is never vocalized by Jews. Rather, when it appears in Scripture, another word (usually “Adonai” meaning “Lord”) is substituted. The same was, actually, true in the Church: the Protestants were the ones who insisted on vocalizing it. So, one can say that the recent instruction not to vocalize the Tetragrammaton is a return to the traditional practice of the Church as much as it is being respectful to the Jews.

Now, the second case is very different. The word “Shalom” is vocalized normally in the Hebrew Scriptures, and of course, is commonly used in everyday parlance in Modern Hebrew.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Mass is not Latin, in Latin it is Missa

I guess Mass comes from Missa, no?

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

And a more universal term for it is Liturgy, which came from Greek.

I guess for Mass is Eucharist (greek- eu=good+charis=grace).
Liturgy is for every Ceremony, for instance baptims.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

:banghead: UGH!

:banghead:I KNOW!

:banghead:

Adding mine to the mix.

This is – yet again – another wonderful example of eliminating the extended sign of peace altogether. I am so eternally grateful to our priests that we do not have to mess with this at our parish. We have just done away with it entirely. The Mass flows so much more nicely, Jesus is no longer ignored on the altar while everyone whoops it up in the aisles, and our prayerful focus is not interrupted.

~Liza

I do not know what the problem is but I am a team worker, so when I see that friends need help, I join the crowd:
:banghead:

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Please answer this question:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=677822
Thanks

 

[eva77]

you guys need to come to a Nigerian Mass,during the sign of peace,parishoners even hug one another. Personally i believe it disrupts the celebration,but i also try to veiw it from an incident i witnessed once. There were 2 parishoners who were keeping malice,and one coincidently sat behind the other and they were compelled to share the sign of peace, and automatically reconciled. Since then, i saw it as a, well, somewhat good thing, cos, if it helps you ‘‘be in peace’’ with your neighbour, especially as its before the receipt of the holy communion makes you ‘‘pure’’ per se. so long as it doesn’t disrupt the mass.

But the hand holding thing?! Maybe they should sing kumaya too[SIGN][/SIGN]

 

[mcmitton]

Honestly, the placement of “the peace…” within the mass comes as a disruption in preparing to receive the Eucharist for me. Our congregation takes it as a time to cross aisles, sometimes faster than a walk, and some range quite a distance from their pews.

Far better [for me] would be to place the “Peace…” at the end of the mass just before the priest entones the Dismissal.

As a relatively new Catholic [2000], I try to conform my postures to what is prescribed in the Missal, and if not mentioned, then my hands are either clasped in front of me, or flat palms placed together, fingers pointed upward.

Still, my hands may be “grabbed” during the “Our Father” and I’ll be a part of a daisy chain spanning aisles and pews. And my arms thrust upward during “For the kingdom…”

TBTG, I am a musician every other Sunday and not located in the pews!!!

 

[Stylites]

I want to hear why the priest is doing this.
It really bothers me that someone is coming here before *talking *to the priest.

This type of thing spreads gossip and sedition.
We’re, after all, not hearing REMOTELY what is going on with the priest yet forming conclusions and accusations based on smoke and hot air.

agnes therese’s reply is helpful.

Take that to the priest and see what he says.

Agreed. People need to talk with their own priest. Saying ‘peace’ and holding hands sounds so very Jesus.

 

[chosen_people]

A priest I trust says that our LORD normally spoke Aramaic rather than Hebrew; so the word would have been “Salaam”.

ICXC NIKA

The word shalom in the same in Hebrew as it is in Aramaic. I believe your mixing up Aramaic with Arabic.

 

[GEddie]

The word shalom in the same in Hebrew as it is in Aramaic. I believe your mixing up Aramaic with Arabic.

Hmmm… I got the word from him. I was surprised that the Aramaic/Arabic words should be the same. Thx.

ICXC NIKA

 

[malphono]

Hmmm… I got the word from him. I was surprised that the Aramaic/Arabic words should be the same.

Actually, as noted in my [post=9321026]earlier post[/post], the Hebrew and Aramaic aren’t exactly identical either. While the root spelling is the same, (shin-lamed-mem), the vocalization (vowel placement) is different.

 

[finisterra]

One of our local Priests likes to get everyone to say Shalom during the Sign of Peace. Is that ok? He also tries to get everyone to hold hands, even moving out into the center aisle to hold hands with the other row of pews. I’m almost certain that is not correct either, but I’m just trying to be sure of all this. Thank you for any responses

Any language serves to praise the Lord.