Vatican Amazon synod proposes ordination of married men as priests with a vote of 128 to 41

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“At least 85% of Amazon villages cannot attend Mass every week and some cannot do so for years.”

Allowing married Protestant ministers to be ordained Catholic Priests did not lead to a slippery slope so I doubt allowing for married Amazonian deacons to be ordained will. Will be interesting to see what the Magisterium arrives at.
 
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They should be addressing why the shortage of priests with such a large Catholic population; and why are there so few men ordained to the permanent diaconate. Clearly a problem of evangelization, which also explains why they are losing so many to the Pentecostals and fundamentalist Christian groups.
 
I for years have supported that older married men be allowed to be ordained as Deacons and then as Priest. When I say older I mean 45 to 50 years old. No kids at home or in college. By the time he becomes a Priest he must have taken care of retirement so the church doesn’t have to support him. If his spouse were to pass away he may not remarry. This includes once he starts the program to become a deacon.
 
Perhaps rather than ordaining married men they should be addressing why so many in the Amazon are being converted to evangelical protestantism.

Maybe the answer lies more in giving the gospel message.
 
MagdalenaRita said:
Perhaps rather than ordaining married men they should be addressing why so many in the Amazon are being converted to evangelical protestantism.
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Well, perhaps because those in the Amazon do not have regular access to the sacraments!

Makes the competition look rather appealing if you can’t even fulfill the basic obligations of your faith.
 
OraLabora said:
Well, perhaps because those in the Amazon do not have regular access to the sacraments!
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In the past many people did not have access to the Eucharist and still came in to the Catholic church, so couldn’t the same happen in the Amazon. People could still be converted to the faith. More people converted, more men for the priesthood, access to the Eucharist.
OraLabora said:
Makes the competition look rather appealing if you can’t even fulfill the basic obligations of your faith.
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I suspect it is more that the evangelicals do not mix the gospel with other cultural religious practices.
 
I don’t have a problem with married men being priests…but young married men or older married men…a younger married priest may be buying a home…need all the necessities…and the accompanying bills… of a young family…will parishioners be willing to support him and his family…maybe older married priests would already would have their home…older children…or children who can support themselves or have left home…are more financially secure…there would need to be a lot to consider…as for so many Catholics converting to Evangelical Protestantism…maybe to many Catholics their Catholicism is just a cultural/traditional part of their lives rather than any real commitment to Jesus Christ and living the gospel message…which is probably because they have never…or only ever been partially catechized about the Catholic faith.so when they hear the message about being born again in Jesus Christ…and start learning the Bible with their new found Evangelical friends…and living the Christian life…they had never heard… read…or experienced that before…that’s basically how easy it is to convert Catholics to Protestantism…I used to do it myself when I was a Pentecostal…it was easy…as we’re seeing in South America today
 
MagdalenaRita said:
That doesn’t mean everything of the present is correct.
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Nor were things necessarily always better in the past, nor relevant to today’s reality.

It is about competition for souls, using modern means of reaching out. And yes those means often borrow techniques from commercial marketing. Slogans, advertising, social media presence. If it walks like a duck…

Catholicism is sacramental, where sacraments are considered the most reliable path to salvation.

Take that away and there’s not much left to separate us from Pentecostals who may have a (married) pastor in the village ready to save souls in the manner he or she believes is efficacious.
 
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OraLabora said:
Nor were things necessarily always better in the past, nor relevant to today’s reality.
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I didn’t say they were. What I am saying, one can still be Catholic, in a state of grace and not receive the Eucharist every Sunday, if is not available for some reason. For example when missionaries or immigrants came to America, until they built parishes and spread the faith, they did not have access to the Eucharist. If we evangelize the faith, the number of Catholics grow, priests are born and then we have access to the Eucharist.
OraLabora said:
It is about competition for souls, using modern means of reaching out. And yes those means often borrow techniques from commercial marketing. Slogans, advertising, social media presence. …
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Sure, no problem
OraLabora said:
Catholicism is sacramental, where sacraments are considered the most reliable path to salvation.
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Yes, again. spread the faith, get priests, get sacraments
OraLabora said:
Take that away and there’s not much left to separate us from Pentecostals who may have a (married) pastor in the village ready to save souls in the manner he or she believes is efficacious.
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Agree, but also part of the problem is protestants will not include any paganism in the gospel message, so maybe the paganism isn’t as important as we seem to think.
 
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I don’t see how married preists will somehow fix the vocations crisis in the Amazon. Maybe if these bishops focused on evangelization instead of liberation theology there wouldn’t be an issue. Wrong solution to the right problem.
 
Is anyone truly surprised?
There has been a push among a certain element in Rome for really more than 70 years now for “married priests” and since the last 50 or so more and more for 'women deacons". Many people think the whole “Amazon crisis” was manufactured in order to bring about the two above ‘solutions’ to the Amazon as a “jumping off place” or a ‘trial run’.

It certainly will be a trial.
 
The good thing about Pentecostalism is that being “born again” really is a life changing experience for many people…I can personally attest to that and I know others whose lives changed dramatically…if that is how anyone first comes to know Jesus Christ as their savior I don’t think any Christian would question their experience as long as that belief was “in the name of the Father…the Son…and the Holy Spirit”…which is what it is…they may not have the “whole truth” as the Catholic church…if Catholics were as zealous in Evangelizing other Christians in the awesome wonder of the Eucharist…the real presence of Jesus Christ…that we are partaking in this most blessed sacrament instituted by Christ himself…Body…Blood…Soul and Divinity I doubt if there would be any Protestants left…they’d all be Catholic.
 
stpurl said:
Many people think the whole “Amazon crisis” was manufactured in order to bring about the two above ‘solutions’ to the Amazon as a “jumping off place” or a ‘trial run’.
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I’ve certainly read that before…in fact I’ve read it several times. I’m simply unable to believe this…that the crisis in the Amazon was manufactured.

I compare it to a vocation crisis I understand in Ireland. I have many relatives in Ireland. The vocation crisis in Ireland wasn’t manufactured. It was brought about by institutional failures and abuse. Nobody saw the vocational crisis in Ireland happening. Nobody planned for it to happen. I’m sure what happened in the Amazon is very similar.
 
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What if there isn’t a vocation crisis? Michael Rose, for example, argues that we’re short on priests because orthodox Catholic men are being denied entry to or thrown out of seminaries.
 
gracepoole said:
What if there isn’t a vocation crisis? Michael Rose, for example, argues that we’re short on priests because orthodox Catholic men are being denied entry to or thrown out of seminaries.
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Michael Rose…the author of Goodbye! Good Men. I could understand it might be true that a few very orthodox men were turned away from the seminary in a few specific situations. However, it looks like the problem is on a different order of magnitude than this.

I can’t honestly say I understand all of the dynamics in the Amazon, but on a much deeper level I understand Ireland. From 1960 to today the number of seminarians in Ireland went from 600 to 25. This means seminaries in Ireland are simply closing. Ireland gives an example of a problem that is simply to big manufacture by simply turning down orthodox men for the seminary.

 
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Also, I’ve certainly skimmed through Goodbye Good men. As I understand, it is a very American focused book that is 17 yeas old. I would strongly question its relevance to other countries or regions like the Amazon or Ireland.
 
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jack63 said:
Also, I’ve certainly skimmed through Goodbye Good men. As I understand, it is a very American focused book that is 17 yeas old. I would strongly question its relevance to other countries or regions like the Amazon or Ireland.
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When a country like the US, which has the second highest concentration of priests in the world, experiences a decrease in vocations, the world experiences a decrease in vocations.
 
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