Vatican Calls for Global Authority on Economy

[_Abyssinia]

I don’t know how different what the document says, compared to what Pope Benedict in says in Caritatis in Veritate (67): “To manage the global economy; to revive economies hit by the crisis; to avoid any deterioration of the present crisis and the greater imbalances that would result; to bring about integral and timely disarmament, food security and peace; to guarantee the protection of the environment and to regulate migration: for all this, there is urgent need of a true world political authority, as my predecessor Blessed John XXIII indicated some years ago. Such an authority would need to be regulated by law, to observe consistently the principles of subsidiarity and solidarity, to seek to establish the common good, and to make a commitment to securing authentic integral human development inspired by the values of charity in truth. Furthermore, such an authority would need to be universally recognized and to be vested with the effective power to ensure security for all, regard for justice, and respect for rights. Obviously it would have to have the authority to ensure compliance with its decisions from all parties, and also with the coordinated measures adopted in various international forums.”

 

[JHow]

…my money is in the credit union, not a big bank, learned that a long time ago…

Um, what exactly was the lesson you learned here? No bank or credit union is necessarily safe from mis-management, and no currency (one-world or casino chips) is necessarily a safe haven either.

That crusty old KJV had a pithy line about “moth and rust corrupt” that I just can’t shake.

 

[_Abyssinia]

I don’t know how different what the document says, compared to what Pope Benedict in says in Caritatis in Veritate (67): “To manage the global economy; to revive economies hit by the crisis; to avoid any deterioration of the present crisis and the greater imbalances that would result; to bring about integral and timely disarmament, food security and peace; to guarantee the protection of the environment and to regulate migration: for all this, there is urgent need of a true world political authority, as my predecessor Blessed John XXIII indicated some years ago. Such an authority would need to be regulated by law, to observe consistently the principles of subsidiarity and solidarity, to seek to establish the common good, and to make a commitment to securing authentic integral human development inspired by the values of charity in truth. Furthermore, such an authority would need to be universally recognized and to be vested with the effective power to ensure security for all, regard for justice, and respect for rights. Obviously it would have to have the authority to ensure compliance with its decisions from all parties, and also with the coordinated measures adopted in various international forums.”

Pope Benedict also says:

“The Church cannot and must not take upon herself the political battle to bring about the most just society possible. She cannot and must not replace the State. Yet at the same time she cannot and must not remain on the sidelines in the fight for justice. She has to play her part through rational argument and she has to reawaken the spiritual energy without which justice, which always demands sacrifice, cannot prevail and prosper. A just society must be the achievement of politics, not of the Church. Yet the promotion of justice through efforts to bring about openness of mind and will to the demands of the common good is something which concerns the Church deeply.”

 

[JHow]

I don’t know how different what the document says, compared to what Pope Benedict in says in Caritatis in Veritate (67): “To manage the global economy; to revive economies hit by the crisis; to avoid any deterioration of the present crisis and the greater imbalances that would result; to bring about integral and timely disarmament, food security and peace; to guarantee the protection of the environment and to regulate migration: for all this, there is urgent need of a true world political authority, as my predecessor Blessed John XXIII indicated some years ago. Such an authority would need to be regulated by law, to observe consistently the principles of subsidiarity and solidarity, to seek to establish the common good, and to make a commitment to securing authentic integral human development inspired by the values of charity in truth. Furthermore, such an authority would need to be universally recognized and to be vested with the effective power to ensure security for all, regard for justice, and respect for rights. Obviously it would have to have the authority to ensure compliance with its decisions from all parties, and also with the coordinated measures adopted in various international forums.”

Pope Benedict also says:

“The Church cannot and must not take upon herself the political battle to bring about the most just society possible. She cannot and must not replace the State. Yet at the same time she cannot and must not remain on the sidelines in the fight for justice. She has to play her part through rational argument and she has to reawaken the spiritual energy without which justice, which always demands sacrifice, cannot prevail and prosper. A just society must be the achievement of politics, not of the Church. Yet the promotion of justice through efforts to bring about openness of mind and will to the demands of the common good is something which concerns the Church deeply.”

I think the Pope’s encyclical is a lot more clear about how we might reform oversight of global economics than the document we are discussing is. The part you quoted is in the context of a paragraph on reforming the United Nations:

1. In the face of the unrelenting growth of global interdependence, there is a strongly felt need, even in the midst of a global recession, for a reform of the United Nations Organization, and likewise of economic institutions and international finance, so that the concept of the family of nations can acquire real teeth…

 

[Pork_Roll]

This wasn’t an encyclical

I never claimed it was. I said that you should read papal encyclicals on social teaching instead of listening to conservative talk radio. Caritas in Veritate–the latest encyclical on this subject by our Holy Father–explicitly calls for a “true world political authority… Regulated by law, universally recognized and vested with the effective power…”.

 

[ManOnFire]

I never claimed it was. I said that you should read papal encyclicals on social teaching instead of listening to conservative talk radio. Caritas in Veritate–the latest encyclical on this subject by our Holy Father–explicitly calls for a “true world political authority… Regulated by law, universally recognized and vested with the effective power…”.

From “Caritas in Veritate”: “If we love others with charity, then first of all we are just towards them.”

I’m glad to see then that you’ll be fighting against the injustice of people who both cheat on their taxes and vote for more safety nets for the needy, for they are cheating the very people they passionately and hypocritically claim to support.

 

[Julianna]

Um, what exactly was the lesson you learned here? No bank or credit union is necessarily safe from mis-management, and no currency (one-world or casino chips) is necessarily a safe haven either.

That crusty old KJV had a pithy line about “moth and rust corrupt” that I just can’t shake.

ah, they don’t charge alot of silly “fees”…because they can…

never said anything about mis-management…anything a human-being has a hand into is subject to corruption…

my mortgage alas, is subject to the whim of Chase……scary thought indeed…

 

[crazzeto]

Why do you even care what evangelicals say?Their path to heaven is different than the Catholics, not better, not worse, different. The goal is the same.

I have to disagree with this, there is but one path to heaven. Christmas and his one true apostolic church. I have always, and continue to believe this is the Catholic church, (7though if anything. getting gave me pause this did). Chhrist instituted one body, that is the one path to heaven. Not that they cant get to heaven, but that is and when they do, it is through the one true body of Christ.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Pope Benedict: Neither Power Hungry Nor Naive:

catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=22042

Couple of interesting points from this blog:

hancaquam.blogspot.com/2011/10/vatican-wants-one-world-government.html

The document says nothing new about economics or economic theory nor does it promote one model of economics over any other. The focus is placed squarely on the current difficulties in the monetary market, arguing that some sort of international control needs to be established over these transactions so that we might avoid another global bank collapse. There is a pointed critique of what the document labels “economic liberalism and utilitarian thinking,” that is, unregulated free market capitalism. This is nothing new either. The Church has been suspicious of unfettered capitalism since at least the mid-nineteenth century.

The “world authority” proposed in the document is placed within the context of all the usual Catholic caveats about human dignity, morality, respect for cultural and national traditions, the authority of the nation-state, subsidiarity, etc., etc. In other words, Global Governance advocates will dismiss this proposal out of hand. It’s too religious/ethical and not nearly powerful enough. Oh, and there won’t be enough opportunities for politicians to steal us all blind.

Thoughts on the document by Fr. Michael Zimmerman:

frmitchel.blogspot.com/2011/10/take-on-recent-statement-by-vatican.html

* the Church continues to emphasize that the economy will remain unstable as long as technological growth (the growth of how to do things, the growth of information) outpaces ethical growth - the knowledge of what is good for man.  There is a difference between what man can and ought to do, and when this is violated, instability results.
* the principles of subsidiarity (the larger serving the smaller) and solidarity (looking out for an interest larger than our own) are continually violated in the world economy.  Man is too often seen as a means to an economic end, and decisions are taken away from the smaller man by the larger economy, and man too often looks after his own interest and ignores the common good.  These violations can be made by individuals, national economies, and international alliances.
* if the principles of solidarity and subsidiarity can be agreed upon and respected, it would be possible to build an international body that looks after the world economy can be erected, and such a body is needed because economic possibilities in the international economy are growing much more quickly than actual wealth.  Such a body will only be possible however if it is able to convince member nationas that the body itself will live by the principle of subsidiarity, the larger serving the smaller
* true wealth in the end is a spiritual good, not a material good.  the economy is at the service of the spiritual good of man, not vice versa

After reading a few economic experts who disagree with the statement by the Holy See, here are some more thoughts

* because this document is not about faith and morals, and is issued by a Pontifical Council not the Holy Father, it is not morally binding, but is meant to be a discussion peace before the upcoming G20 summit
* economists have faulted national banks and their monetary policies for much of the current crisis, and some have little hope that an international central bank would know what to do to regulate the international economy; furthermore, few developed nations have any cash whatsoever to contribute to such a bank
* many economists say the economic problems come from those with wealth being able to take extraordinary risks, unreasonable ones, without in the end having to suffer the consequences of bad decisions; bad economic decisions fall disproportionately on the poor, and that is one of the reasons the Vatican is issuing this statement

 

[JHow]

I never claimed it was. I said that you should read papal encyclicals on social teaching instead of listening to conservative talk radio. Caritas in Veritate–the latest encyclical on this subject by our Holy Father–explicitly calls for a B… Regulated by law, universally recognized and vested with the effective power…".

Yes. Unlike today’s United Nations, and in a manner so that the “family of nations” has real teeth.

That parapgraph is an indictment of current attempts at global government, not an endorsement.

 

[JHow]

ah, they don’t charge alot of silly “fees”…because they can…

Got it. I agree whole-heartedly about the fees. Banks lose customers over this but the balance statement looks better because revenue goes up, so the finance guys don’t see the loss.

 

[theistgal]

I have to disagree with this, there is but one path to heaven. Christmas and his one true apostolic church.

As much as I love “Christmas”, I don’t think that’s quite the Name above every other Name.

 

[ANNE_2]

The Vatican staff needs to get out of politics and work to SAVE SOULS and for the FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS of ALL MEN and ONLY according to the Gospel
(CCC - 2246)

The Church is **not competant **to involve itself in the political community. (CCC - 2245)

Calling for a World economic authority is basically calling for a **One World Government **- - - since he who has the gold rules.

This is doing GRAVE damage to any chance of bringing Catholics back to the Church, and Evangelization for non-Catholics.
Bibical non-Catholics will rail against the Church, and rightly so, since they do not differentiate from the Vatican Staff or the Pope and the Magisterium.

The Pope needs to have an emergency meeting with his staff, and until he gets them under control or fires them, there needs to be no more financial contributions except to our own Parish and our own selected Catholic Charities.
This is the only way our voices will collectively be heard.

His staff violates subisidiarity (CCC 1883, 1885, 1894, 2209).

• It promotes communism, and socialism.
• It takes away the responsibility of governments regarding waste and over-spending forcing others pay for their sins.
  And people will have zero control over a world wide non-elected economic government.
• It takes away the responsibility of the individuals who want something for nothing,
  and takes away our appropriate responsibility to vote for moral politicians.

Can you spell the first step toward world-wide dictatorship? (The US Fed Reserve is bad enough.)

The only good news is that this is not from the Magisterium of the Church.
And we have not been able to read the actual text posted in English on the Vatican web site. But the damage is spreading very fast all over the World.

Where did Jesus promote a world-wide economic government ? ? ? ?
Please quote passages from the Bible.

According to the Vatican staff we can all spend ourselves silly, and let someone else pay the bills.

CCC - 2411 Contracts are subject to commutative justice which regulates exchanges between persons and between institutions in accordance with a strict respect for their rights.
Commutative justice obliges strictly; it requires safeguarding property rights, paying debts, and fulfilling obligations freely contracted.
Without commutative justice, no other form of justice is possible. **
One distinguishes commutative justice from legal justice which concerns what the citizen owes in fairness to the community, and from distributive justice which regulates what the community owes its citizens in proportion to their contributions and needs** "

 

[BartBurk]

The Vatican staff needs to get out of politics and work to SAVE SOULS and for the FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS of ALL MEN and ONLY according to the Gospel
(CCC - 2246)

The Church is **not competant **to involve itself in the political community. (CCC - 2245)

Calling for a World economic authority is basically calling for a **One World Government **- - - since he who has the gold rules.

This is doing GRAVE damage to any chance of bringing Catholics back to the Church, and Evangelization for non-Catholics.
Bibical non-Catholics will rail against the Church, and rightly so, since they do not differentiate from the Vatican Staff or the Pope and the Magisterium.

The Pope needs to have an emergency meeting with his staff, and until he gets them under control or fires them, there needs to be no more financial contributions except to our own Parish and our own selected Catholic Charities.
This is the only way our voices will collectively be heard.

His staff violates subisidiarity (CCC 1883, 1885, 1894, 2209).

• It promotes communism, and socialism.
• It takes away the responsibility of governments regarding waste and over-spending forcing others pay for their sins.
  And people will have zero control over a world wide non-elected economic government.
• It takes away the responsibility of the individuals who want something for nothing,
  and takes away our appropriate responsibility to vote for moral politicians.

Can you spell the first step toward world-wide dictatorship? (The US Fed Reserve is bad enough.)

The only good news is that this is not from the Magisterium of the Church.
And we have not been able to read the actual text posted in English on the Vatican web site. But the damage is spreading very fast all over the World.

Where did Jesus promote a world-wide economic government ? ? ? ?
Please quote passages from the Bible.

According to the Vatican staff we can all spend ourselves silly, and let someone else pay the bills.

CCC - 2411 Contracts are subject to commutative justice which regulates exchanges between persons and between institutions in accordance with a strict respect for their rights.
Commutative justice obliges strictly; it requires safeguarding property rights, paying debts, and fulfilling obligations freely contracted.
Without commutative justice, no other form of justice is possible. **
One distinguishes commutative justice from legal justice which concerns what the citizen owes in fairness to the community, and from distributive justice which regulates what the community owes its citizens in proportion to their contributions and needs** "

I agree completely – this document has damaged the Church more than it has helped bring about any kind of social justice. If we want to save our Protestant brothers and sisters as well as others we should be focusing on Christ’s message of salvation instead of social justice – social justice will come after folks are converted to the truth. It certainly won’t happen by supporting a world economic government “with teeth”. That’s the scariest thought I’ve ever had. Protestants are saved through the Catholic Church and we don’t want to confuse the message. God of course can save them through extraordinary means, but that is not what we are called to do right now. Giving Protestants the excuse to declare that we are the Whore of Babylon supporting a One World Government is not very prudent especially since the entire idea of a One World Government would eventually bring about dire persecution of Christianity.

 

[Pork_Roll]

That parapgraph is an indictment of current attempts at global government, not an endorsement.

Take it up with the pope. It clearly calls for a global authority with TEETH.

 

[stewstew03]

It feeds a narrative; the Church is interested in centralized, global, authority. This doesn’t help in trying to convert or reconvert those who are thinking of becoming Catholic. So yes, I care because it makes it harder in the apologetics venue.

You are concerned about “narrative”? If you are a Catholic apologist, and it is difficult for you to evangelize in the face of a document proscribing social justice in the context of a global economy (which was, incidentally, written by the head of the church’s council for justice and peace, whose aim is to promote social justice), then we should indeed be worried…

 

[BartBurk]

You are concerned about “narrative”? If you are a Catholic apologist, and it is difficult for you to evangelize in the face of a document proscribing social justice in the context of a global economy (which was, incidentally, written by the head of the church’s council for justice and peace, whose aim is to promote social justice), then we should indeed be worried…

Promoting social justice through a world wide central bank “with teeth” is the exact wrong way to promote social justice. The idea that a world central bank wouldn’t abuse its power is naive at best – the last thing a world wide central bank would do is create any kind of social justice. Do you think the Chinese or the Russians or the Moslems would use this body as a way to promote social justice? Just a really stupid document …

 

[Mrs_Sally]

The text of the document is available in English. Let’s all take a breather and then start reading through it. Maybe we can discuss section by section, sticking to the actual text and other Vatican documents and not the thoughts of various media outlets.

I’ll start a new thread tomorrow.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Yep the whole thing makes me want to run in another direction, Jesus threw the money changers out of the Temple, He did not ask that they have more authority.

.

 

[stewstew03]

And the greed and abuses and everything else will not get better with a “supreme secular authority”. Too much power. The council and Pope are protected on faith and morals, I did not know they protected on politics and banking.

A friendly challenge: shouldn’t decisions regarding politics and banking be subject to moral scrutiny?
“The principle that debts must be paid is certainly just. However, it is not right to demand or expect payment when the effect would be the imposition of political choices leading to hunger and despair for entire peoples. It cannot be expected that the debts which have been contracted should be paid at the price of unbearable sacrifices. In such cases it is necessary to find–as in fact is partly happening–ways to lighten, defer or even cancel the debt, compatible with the fundamental right of peoples to subsistence and progress.”
-Centesimus Annus