Vatican Calls for Global Authority on Economy

[simple_soul]

The text of the document is available in English. Let’s all take a breather and then start reading through it. Maybe we can discuss section by section, sticking to the actual text and other Vatican documents and not the thoughts of various media outlets.

I’ll start a new thread tomorrow.

*Just trying to read this thread has made me want to take a breather. tha sounds like a really good idea.

In reading all the fear and anxiety in a lot of these posts here, I would like to suggest to people to pray the Jesus prayer while taking this breather. The prayer has always helped me with my worst fears and anxieties…by helping to calm me so that I can hear more clearly…

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God!
Have mercy on us sinners.
Sweetest Jesus, teach us to put out Hope and Trust in You and Your Divine Word! *

 

[ringil]

Gosh, you guys sure sound nervous!!

maybe the Catholic Church isn’t as American Right Wing as you would like. . . .

 

[The_Scott]

Gosh, you guys sure sound nervous!!

maybe the Catholic Church isn’t as American Right Wing as you would like. . . .

Yeah! Next thing you know they’ll be for gun control - against our second amendment right!! And they’d want us to get rid of capital punishment! How can we show those who murder what justice really is?!?

Oh, wait…

Listen, I think many posters from the last 10+ pages jumped the gun in saying “New World Order! New World Order! The end is near! STUPID STUPID STUPID!” Let’s see what happens in the next couple days. There will more than likely be clarifications. I partially read the document released (I have lots of other stuff to do, though), and I saw nothing that was controversial. Poor word choice? Sure, but that’s because we’re so wired over the concept of conspiracy theories and such.

Remember, the poor are just as human as the rich; they deserve better than what they have. If that means sacrificing some of our wealth, then so be it. In fact, what would Christianity be if it wasn’t advocating sacrifice?

 

[ANNE_2]

The Vatican staff asked for a Global Authority on Economy - with “teeth”.
This is an World-wide Economic Government in any language.

Yes, we must help the poor, but not the lazy and envious, or socialists - which would all fall under any Global Authority.
And certainly not those who want to take from society - without giving back to society through no fault of their own.

Again, someone please provide the Bible passages in which Jesus taught that we should have or support a Global Authority on Economy, or a World Wide Economic Government (same thing).

My post of 8:05 pm stands.

Each government (and individual) must pay their own bills.
The USA has our own significant debt to pay. We don’t need additional debt by being forced to pay for Greece’s debt or that of the European Union.

CCC - " 2411 Contracts are subject to commutative justice which regulates exchanges between persons and between institutions in accordance with a strict respect for their rights. Commutative justice obliges strictly; it requires safeguarding property rights, paying debts, and fulfilling obligations freely contracted.
Without commutative justice, no other form of justice is possible.

One distinguishes commutative justice from legal justice which concerns what the citizen owes in fairness to the community, a nd from distributive justice which regulates what the community owes its citizens in proportion to their contributions and needs. "

We must only help those people in need. Not those in want.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

A friendly challenge: shouldn’t decisions regarding politics and banking be subject to moral scrutiny?

Yes, indeed. I was listening to Catholic Radio today on this subject and one guest made an interesting point, namely that this document fails to address the moral aspect of the subject and simply presumes that those in financial difficulty are hapless victims. It make the claim that the current system is unfair to the poor when, in fact, the debtor nations are overwhelmingly developed countries (Europe and the US) and the lending countries are developing (e.g. China, India, Brazil, etc.).

 

[mystagogia]

The European Union set up the Euro, the European Central Bank, and attempted to enforce a unitary monetary policy among all members of the European Monetary Union (basically, everybody but the Brits, who stubbornly clung to their pound sterling).

How has that been working out? Anybody?

To think for one minute that the answer to the current crisis lies in kicking all this up to the truly global level is crackers. Today it is more apparent than ever that these transnational monetary unions are really good at doing one thing well: making the ill-effects of poor decisions by the planners systemic.

The ideas expressed in this Vatican document are akin to this: “When you find yourself in a hole, keep digging.”

 

[stewstew03]

… a world wide central bank “with teeth”…

So should the IMF have the authority to sanction nation-states? How about the World Bank? How about economic sanctions imposed by the UN? What roles does the G-20 play? What role does the WTO have in regulating trade and commerce?
Your perspective depends entirely on where your imagination wanders when you interpret this idea of “teeth.” Teeth could mean imposing tariffs on an oligarchical government that manipulates its currency. Or it could mean that a nation heavily burdened by debt (e.g., Greece) becomes ineligible for international aid until she adopts austerity measures. If we assume a reasonable interpretation of the term “teeth,” then I think you’ll find that the “New World Order” (i.e., the global economy) is already here. And if you are consumed with fear by this reality, then that can be properly diagnosed as a spiritual issue, not a political one.

“Make sure that your character is free from the love of money, being content with what you have; for He Himself has said, ‘I WILL NEVER DESERT YOU, NOR WILL I EVER FORSAKE YOU’” (Heb 13:5)

 

[mystagogia]

If this Cardinal Turkson is on the short list for future popes, I’m quite concerned and displeased after this atrocity of a document.

 

[curlycool89]

I must say that it’s always fun to watch these discussions. As soon as I saw this this morning I knew people would be crying out on CAF about “new world orders” and such things. Methinks that people here are sometimes too predictable.

I can’t say I’m surprised. Free-marketeer conservatism seems to often be conflated (look it up) with being an orthodox Catholic here, especially among our US brethren. Actually, just make that American Conservatism conflated with Orthodoxy. It’s very Evangelical Bible Belt-Christian of them.

I just want to throw a :twocents: at those who complain about this hampering evangelism. You mine as well just add it to the list. It’s a very long list, including

1. Primacy of Peter
2. Marian Dogmas
3. The Sacraments (which has around 7 sub-points )
4. Terrible Popes during the Middle Ages (I’m looking at you Pope Alexander VI)
5. Anti-Contriception and all forms of Artificial Birth Control
6. Anti-Divorce
   ect.

See, if you really want to rant about how Catholics are “false Christians” or whatever, there’s already many items to choose from. And those are just the ones off the top of my head that Conservative-Evangelical Christians would point at. That’s not even getting into the 2nd even-longer list of grievances liberal-Christians would have.

We’re not going to win any popularity contests, so there’s no point in pretending. And sometimes, your world view gets challenged. Oddly enough, God made all of us on this here forum fallible human beings, which means we can be wrong sometimes. I know, horror of horrors.

We now return to your regularly scheduled program, “Why I’m Right and You’re Wrong”.

 

[TMC]

So the Church puts out a document that does not agree with certain political movements in the US and suddenly American Catholics are calling Church teaching an atrocity, saying that the Church is not competent to teach on economic matters, charging the Magisterium with violating its own teachings, suggesting that the poor are “lazy” and not worthy of our help (very Christian position there), etc, etc. I guess for some people their faith must be subordinated to their politics, but I didn’t expect to find that sentiment so brazenly displayed on this forum.

Anyone that was surprised by this document has simply not been paying attention to the Church’s teaching of the last hundred or so years. News flash–the Church does not endorse or support unbridled capitalism or Randian individualism and never has, as even a cursory review of the Church’s teaching would make clear.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

So the Church puts out a document that does not agree with certain political movements in the US and suddenly American Catholics are calling Church teaching an atrocity, saying that the Church is not competent to teach on economic matters, charging the Magisterium with violating its own teachings, suggesting that the poor are “lazy” and not worthy of our help (very Christian position there), etc, etc. I guess for some people their faith must be subordinated to their politics, but I didn’t expect to find that sentiment so brazenly displayed on this forum.

Anyone that was surprised by this document has simply not been paying attention to the Church’s teaching of the last hundred or so years. News flash–the Church does not endorse or support unbridled capitalism or Randian individualism and never has, as even a cursory review of the Church’s teaching would make clear.

It is unfortunate that this paper has encouraged several here toward this conclusion.

You might, though, want to check your assumptions before tossing out such accusations. You are mistaken on several critical facts, not to mention entirely uncharitable in your characterization of those who disagree with this paper.

 

[ANNE_2]

If it was not so sad, this would be laughable -

" The suggestions issued today by Justice and Peace recognize that “a long road still needs to be traveled before arriving at the creation of a public Authority with universal jurisdiction,” and proposes that the** reform or enhancing of present institutions such as the United Nations, International Monetary Fund or European Central Bank could be a starting point**. "

ewtnnews.com/catholic-news/Vatican.php?id=4216

What is upsetting is the loss of those non-practicing Catholics and non-Catholics who will no longer consider coming into the Church, and the loss of practicing Catholics who may change from the Roman Church to one of the Catholic Eastern Rites - to get back to the teachings of Jesus, rather than politics.

It shows a lack of understanding of human nature - their socialist/communistic assumption on the part of Justice and Peace which seems to think such a world-wide economic government would be benevolent, kind and good - with no greed or evil intentions of anyone in power.

Perhaps the Bible’s “Revelation to John” is coming to pass sooner rather than later - the coming of the anti-Christ, and not-being able to buy without the mark of the devil. - world wide. Read: - Rev 13:5-8 and Rev 13:16-18.

We all know that those who control world-wide wealth - will rule the world.

 

[Robert_Bay]

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Proof what you write before you post.

 

[Marcarios]

I dont know whats so shocking about it ? You people act like the Vatican has never played politics ? Theres nothing new under the sun…Perhaps this pope doesn’t endorse this Cardinals “musings” as you put it , but in the past when there has been a “unifying” Authority in place It has either worked in the political intrests of the Pope or not.

How did the Pope gain temporal authority during the Middle Ages which should have only been reserved too the hands of the Roman Emperor ? The Roman Emperor had a governor set up in Ravenna Italy too represent the intrests of the Roman Emperor in Constaniople.

As a consequence of this the Archbishop of Ravenna enjoyed more prestige and greater autonomy then the Bishop of Rome. and the Roman Govenor “Exarch” oversaw the lands on behalf of the Emperor not the Pope. This was a “Unifying” authority then, but without the approval of The Pope because He wasnt the Emperor.

The Pope didnt want to be answerable to the God Given Authority of the Christian Emperor so he allied himself with the barbarians who overran Italy and Italy was lost once again to the legitimate “unifying authority” of the Roman Emperor .

The Vatican speaks out of two sides of its mouth on many political issues , again Peter was given authority in the Church as a fisher of men the Apostles were given charge as well , Peter was never promised a temporal kingdom , but this goes for all Bishops , Bishops need to stick to the Good News , not to solving the false aspirations of the World which is ruled by the Prince of Darkness anyways.

 

[Church_Militant]

Okay, let’s see if we can get some real information going on here.
**
How many of you have read the entire document?** (Is that crickets I hear?)

That should be the first stop. So far I’ve found at least 2 posters who were sharp enough to have found and posted a link to the actual text. Without reading it all the way through, (and carefully!) how can we even begin to have any kind of intelligent discussion of it?

How many of you have read the Papal Encyclical that His Holiness Benedict XVI issued back in 2009?

Caritas in Veritate: 2009

There was a lot of knee jerk and misrepresentation of that document too. Right up until people took the time to actually read it. Then everyone pretty much shut up.

You have to remember that this is a social justice issue and the Church speaks in the context of setting the highest standards of ethical behavior in these matters. That means that what has been proposed assumes the purity of heart and the love of fellow mankind that could implement these measures justly all over the world.

His Holiness made the following statement in his recent book, *Light of the World *.
**“The question is therefore: How can the great moral will, which everybody affirms and everyone invokes, become a personal decision? For unless that happens, politics remains impotent.”

**I believe that this is what His Holiness, as well as this good Cardinal are telling us here. We all know that the financial system is badly broken and in need of an equitable fix or we may very well face another global depression. It’s time we all began to seek that conversion that puts feet onto the very things that Our Lord spoke to us about in this past Sunday’s Gospel reading when He said.

Matthew 22:34-40

When the Pharisees heard that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees,
they gathered together, and one of them,
a scholar of the law tested him by asking,
"Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?"
He said to him,
"You shall love the Lord, your God,
with all your heart,
with all your soul,
and with all your mind.
This is the greatest and the first commandment.
The second is like it:
You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments."

 

[Robert_Bay]

The document is here: news.va/en/news/full-text-note-on-financial-reform-from-the-pontif

Read it all before commenting.

Remember to remain charitable and to treat those in authority in the Catholic Church with respect.

 

[Tenofovir]

Yep the whole thing makes me want to run in another direction, Jesus threw the money changers out of the Temple, He did not ask that they have more authority.

This would be an attempt to bring the said money changers under some control. They already rule the world, and we can’t get rid of capitalism and the banking system (the alternatives are worse) but that’s not to say that the present system can’t be reformed a little. But Vatican sponsored EU/UN troops will not be disarming American patriots just yet.

 

[JReducation]

It is very important that we remember that listening is probably the most difficult part of love. God listens to us, even when he disagrees with us. He does not slam us, because he does not like what he hears.

If we are to be true disciples, we must learn from the Master . . . to listen before we respond. We must learn to hear the other from his point of view, not our own, because we’re not doing the talking. Unless we listen from the other person’s point of view, we won’t understand what they are talking about.

We must always recall that the Church has the same freedom of speech as the rest of the world. Justice is not just for some. If we look at this document very carefully, it’s not claiming to be a doctrinal statement or a command. It’s a call for human beings to rise above politics and above personal interests and to combine our efforts to find solutions to a common problem. It actually calls on us to be creative. The proposal may not be the solution, but the idea of rising above our personal interests and the idea of working together is a very old Christian idea that dates back to Acts of the Apostles. In fact, St.Benedict institutionalized it in the early monasteries where the entire community, secular and religious, worked together for the common good with the Church at its center. His monasteries were liturgical, economic and cultural centers, because they were based on the early Church.

The interaction between the first Benedictines and the world was very much an economic and spiritual relationship. It was never an either or, but both. Benedict erected these centers as a model for the Catholic world in the West over 1500 years ago. The idea of the Church and secular world working together to find solutions to economic problems is neither new nor outside of the competency of the Church.

We need to step back, read the document, offer constructive criticism when appropriate and even add what we believe may work. This would be the hope of St. Benedict, who structured the economic diad between Church and society.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[TNT]

Do you suppose Italy is getting too close to the Greece “Checkmate” Financial Predicament.
The Central World Bank would be there when Italy hits the Financial Brick Wall, sometime in the next 18 months.

Socialism always fails because it keeps running out of other people’s money.

The Church ought to be preaching the virtues of personal Liberty, free of coercion, and each person’s responsibility to be his brother’s keeper.
As opposed to fertilizing the size of the State behemoth. Shall we introduce the Vatican to the ancient truism:
Power Corrupts. Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.

Two things caused this financial crisis:

1. The introduction of Fiat currency.
2. The intervention of the State for the financial favoritism of selected groups.
   Ex: Do artificially low interest rates favor the Saver or a Borrower?
   Does bailing out Investment banks with Tax dollars favor the Bank or the taxpayer?
   (No, the answer is NOT “Both”.)

Pope Benedict Calls For “Central World Bank” … Only He Didn’t. Here’s Why.

You may have seen this story which was headlined earlier today on the Drudge Report:
The Vatican called on Monday for the establishment of a “global public authority” and a “central world bank” to rule over financial institutions that have become outdated and often ineffective in dealing fairly with crises.

A major document from the Vatican’s Justice and Peace department should be music to the ears of the “Occupy Wall Street” demonstrators and similar movements around the world who have protested against the economic downturn.

The 18-page document, “Towards Reforming the International Financial and Monetary Systems in the Context of a Global Public Authority,” was at times very specific, calling, for example, for taxation measures on financial transactions. CNBC]
In a scenario which will surely strike some as deja vu, the liberal jesuit Fr. Tom Reese previewed the contents of the document last week, in much the same way that the liberal jesuit Fr. Charles Curran “previewed” Humanae Vitae for the mainstream media before the document was actually released (the pope overruled Fr. Curran’s claims that the Church would endorse contraception — but the media had already made up its mind and few bothered to actually read what the pope had to say).

Here’s Fr. Reese on MSNBC “explaining” the news:

youtube.com/watch?v=9F2g15JSbzs&feature=player_embedded

Notice that Fr. Reese does NOT correct the news anchor that this document comes from a vatican congregation — not the pope! Fr. Reese seems perfectly happy to help the mainstream media fundamentally misunderstand the authority of teaching this document enjoys. He claims that the pope has “more in common with the people at occupy wallstreet” than the tea party, even though he has to immediately walk back that claim when it is pointed out to him how violent (and anti-Catholic!) the Occupy Rome demonstrations were (as I blogged about last week). I think it’s no surprise that Fr. Reese spends so much time talking about the 60′s — that’s still his cultural frame of reference.

Rather than get into the nitty-gritty of the 18-page document (which I may do at a later point), let me focus on the most important point: framing. Here’s how Cardinal Turkson, President of the Congregation for Justice and Peace, and Bishop Toso, the secretary, explained how the document should be received and read (underlining mine):
…It is in this spirit of discernment that the Holy See, with the note of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, wishes to make a contribution which might be useful to the deliberations of the G-20 meeting”.

Bishop Toso explained that the aim of the note is “suggest possible paths to follow, in line with the most recent social Magisterium, for the implementation of financial and monetary policies…”

The Church does not wish to enter into the technical issues behind the current economic crisis, but remains within the ambit of her religious and ethical functions…
I have nothing to immediately add to that, because the very authors of the document make clear how it should be evaluated: namely, as a “contribution” (as opposed to a mandate), as a “possible path” (as opposed to a moral proscription), in line with the Magisterium’s social teaching (as opposed to introducing a new teaching), without getting into the technical issues (because the Church is an expert in humanity, not economics) while fully staying within the Church’s religious and ethical functions.

With those extremely important guidelines in mind, we can more fruitfully read the text.

That said, I am absolutely sure the medie cycle for the coming days and weeks will totally miss all these key points and distill this document down to misleading statements such as “Pope Benedict Endorses Central World Bank.” But as I explain above, he didn’t.

Fr. Reese and his liberal Catholic friends would be better served acting as messengers of the Church’s teaching as opposed to creators of it.

catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=21986

 

[_Abyssinia]

So the Church puts out a document that does not agree with certain political movements in the US and suddenly American Catholics are calling Church teaching an atrocity, saying that the Church is not competent to teach on economic matters, charging the Magisterium with violating its own teachings, suggesting that the poor are “lazy” and not worthy of our help (very Christian position there), etc, etc. I guess for some people their faith must be subordinated to their politics, but I didn’t expect to find that sentiment so brazenly displayed on this forum.

Anyone that was surprised by this document has simply not been paying attention to the Church’s teaching of the last hundred or so years. News flash–the Church does not endorse or support unbridled capitalism or Randian individualism and never has, as even a cursory review of the Church’s teaching would make clear.

Do you understand that people are free to disagree with the document, it doesn’t have magisterial authority.