Vatican Calls for Global Authority on Economy

[Ridgerunner]

I agree with you. But it’s important to distinguish between socialism, which is what you described, and the Church’s teaching regarding the common good. When the Church speaks of common good they don’t mean wealth redistribution; common good refers to principles of social and economic justice (again, not to be confused with socialism). At the same time, one cannot discuss common good without discussing individual sacrifice so it’s rather incomplete to say that “in the Catholic faith the individual is of utmost importance.” The Church values private property and the dignity of individuals, but only in the broader context of love and charity. Private property and human dignity cannot be gained at the expense of social and economic justice.

There are some truly grotesque examples of robber barons who have the power to tank entire economies. Remember the Asian Tigers, and the billions that were made when their economies were wrecked? Bank of England? Ah, let’s see. One of the perps in those even wrote a book bragging about it and has doubled his wealth in this crisis. Will we be seeing a book come out on that? Probably not before 2013, I would guess.

I’m not saying it’s one guy alone, but there are those who do batten on destruction. As Rhett Butler said (and I paraphrase, of necessity) “one can make a fortune in the building up of an empire, and also in the tearing down thereof.” And unfortunately, such people sometimes have their hands on the levers of power. And nothing about that is good. And few even bother to notice.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

Well said Ridgerunner.

I’m praying for Europe.

Luigi Danielle: I like the pun.

Clarification: the Global Authority would really just be something like the UN with a bank (that doesn’t have a monopoly on other banks), correct?

I think I am.

 

[stewstew03]

Stewstew wrote:

I do consider all of these orgaizations to be evil, and banks can most definitely be evil.

 

[gnjsdad]

I agree, in fact I am a nervous wreck over it.

You need to view this in the light of Papal encyclicals, Church teaching, and the social doctrine of the Church.

The Popes have long noted the growth of globalization and how technology has enabled the engineering of huge transfers of wealth, often to the detriment of the poor.

The global movement of capital absolutely requires a global moral authority, one guided by Catholic moral principles, not what the Church calls “economic liberalism”, that which we know as capitalism.

 

[Samuel63]

The latest issue of The Vortex from www.RealCatholicTV.com blew the lid off this whole topic.

The Vatican is not calling for a global authority. It was a minor article the press latched onto in hopes of starting a discussion.

The press is not very trustworthy.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

The global movement of capital absolutely requires a global moral authority, one guided by Catholic moral principles, not what the Church calls “economic liberalism”, that which we know as capitalism.

The question, though, is not whether we need a “globall moral authority…guided by Catholic moral principles”. We’ve had that for around 2000 years since the days when Rome traded with the far east. It’s called the papacy.

The question is whether we need a global political authority to manage and control the global trade, something like the Holy Roman Empire. *That *is what this document is calling for.

 

[mlz]

I have not read all the responses to this, just the first page. I believe we all need to pray for the Church. There can be those opposed to the Church and more in the world even at the Vatican. Prayer is needed (as always).


mlz

 

[Pork_Roll]

I don’t know what to think about it truthfully. I enjoy reading the encyclicals of the popes but sometimes there are things in there that are hard to understand. I think that the church doesn’t see America as needing anymore money. Basically, we’re mostly rich and probably have too much. The idea is to help developing nations which are suffering under poverty. This centralized bank would help spread the wealth so to speak to these poor nations or so is hoped.

I know it’s hard for us to believe, but the united states isn’t the center of the universe. The church speaks to the entire world. They have a better understanding of what is going on than any government.

The global movement of capital absolutely requires a global moral authority, one guided by Catholic moral principles, not what the Church calls “economic liberalism”, that which we know as capitalism.

Good point. We already have a “one world order” with our global economy and international corporations and banks.

 

[PatrickSebast]

I don’t know what to think about it truthfully. I enjoy reading the encyclicals of the popes but sometimes there are things in there that are hard to understand. I think that the church doesn’t see America as needing anymore money. Basically, we’re mostly rich and probably have too much. The idea is to help developing nations which are suffering under poverty. This centralized bank would help spread the wealth so to speak to these poor nations or so is hoped.

I think it is important to point out that the council isn’t calling for something that would forcibly remove money from country and give it to another, or even impose some huge taxes on wealthy countries, they are simply calling for something to create and enforce international financial transaction and trade laws. So it isn’t even saying that one particular group is too rich, but that the rich groups need to have some rules imposed on them to stop them from abusing the poor.

 

[A_Catholic]

I think it is important to point out that the council isn’t calling for something that would forcibly remove money from country and give it to another, or even impose some huge taxes on wealthy countries, they are simply calling for something to create and enforce international financial transaction and trade laws. So it isn’t even saying that one particular group is too rich, but that the rich groups need to have some rules imposed on them to stop them from abusing the poor.

And social security was to be a trust fund that everyone paid into for their retirement until the government started stealing from it and now it’s broke. And Medicare was to pay the expenses of elderly and poor and is now so riddled with fraud and corruption that it is almost broke. Why do you think a global fund will be any different? There would probably be trillions of dollars in this fund. Whoever would control it would literally rule the world.

Human nature does not change.

 

[A_Catholic]

The question, though, is not whether we need a “globall moral authority…guided by Catholic moral principles”. We’ve had that for around 2000 years since the days when Rome traded with the far east. It’s called the papacy.

The question is whether we need a global political authority to manage and control the global trade, something like the Holy Roman Empire. *That *is what this document is calling for.

Excellent point! I think that sums up the whole problem. Thank you!

 

[Chipper]

The document is not calling for a global government, as has been pointed out ad nauseum.

I just quoted from the document where it clearly says “World Authority” is the only solution.

Trying to make distinction between Global Government and “World Authority”, seems rather trivial to me. If we manage to obtain a “World Authority”, then by default you have a Global Government.

 

[Chipper]

The latest issue of The Vortex from www.RealCatholicTV.com blew the lid off this whole topic.

The Vatican is not calling for a global authority. It was a minor article the press latched onto in hopes of starting a discussion.

The press is not very trustworthy.

I watched that earlier, and I like Vorris.

What kills me is that I don’t see anyone pointing the highly contradictary nature of this document. All I see and hear is Social Justice, and rather or not it is Subsidiary or not.

This document is illogical, unreasonable and contradictory.

Example: extract from the document.

“In a world on its way to rapid globalization, the reference to a world Authority becomes the only horizon compatible with the new realities of our time and the needs of humankind. However, it should not be forgotten that this development, given wounded human nature, will not come about without anguish and suffering.”

So let me get this straight. Anguish and suffering are the only horizon available, so let’s get started on establishing this World Authority, such that, we can cause anguish and suffering which is good for social justice and the common good. Everyone is going to be well taken care of through Anguish and suffering, being that in of itself is good.

Not.

It seems to me that this document should be saying that, since a World Authority will establish anguish and suffering, then, we cannot support this world authority, since it is detrimental to the Common Good. .

 

[Tigg]

Sorry, I have only read bits and pieces of this thread…if this has not been posted, here’s Jimmy’s take on it:

**Just How “Major” Was Monday’s Finance Document? **

“Major” is a relative term, and while it might be accurate to say that the document was “major” by the lights of the PCJP, it was not major in the overall Vatican sweep of things. The mere fact that it’s being issued by the PCJP tells you that much.

That’s no slight to the PCJP. It is a dicastery (department) of the Holy See, with its own proper work and role. It’s just not a venue the pope uses to issue major documents, when “major” is read in terms of the Vatican as a whole.

George Weigel: The truth of the matter is that “the Vatican” — whether that phrase is intended to mean the Pope, the Holy See, the Church’s teaching authority, or the Church’s central structures of governance — called for precisely nothing in this document. The document is a “Note” from a rather small office in the Roman Curia.

Father Z: Every once in a while the Holy See’s smaller offices, Pontifical Councils and so forth, have to put out a paper to justify their budgets and remind everyone that they take up valuable space. These documents, which do not form part of the Holy Father’s Magisterium, can deal with critical issues like how to be a safe driver. The dicasteries keep busy by hosting seminars on how to play sport and so forth.

Mark Brumley: Even though Catholics are not obliged to accept the policy proposals of this “note,” many Catholics will nevertheless want to hear what the council says, and others are likely to be influenced by it, even though it does not represent “the Vatican’s position” (contrary to what some media accounts and some leftwing Catholics would lead you to believe).

ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/just-how-major-was-mondays-finance-document/

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

You need to view this in the light of Papal encyclicals, Church teaching, and the social doctrine of the Church.

The Popes have long noted the growth of globalization and how technology has enabled the engineering of huge transfers of wealth, often to the detriment of the poor.

The global movement of capital absolutely requires a global moral authority, one guided by Catholic moral principles, not what the Church calls “economic liberalism”, that which we know as capitalism.

Crohny capitalism is what is is, the business and banks run the government and enslave people, the cause crashes and booms, the solution is not to create a super monster.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

I watched that earlier, and I like Vorris.

What kills me is that I don’t see anyone pointing the highly contradictary nature of this document. All I see and hear is Social Justice, and rather or not it is Subsidiary or not.

This document is illogical, unreasonable and contradictory.

Example: extract from the document.

"In a world on its way to rapid globalization, the reference to a world Authority becomes the only horizon compatible with the new realities of our time and the needs of humankind. However, it should not be forgotten that this development, given wounded human nature, will not come about without anguish and suffering."

So let me get this straight. Anguish and suffering are the only horizon available, so let’s get started on establishing this World Authority, such that, we can cause anguish and suffering which is good for social justice and the common good. Everyone is going to be well taken care of through Anguish and suffering, being that in of itself is good.

Not.

It seems to me that this document should be saying that, since a World Authority will establish anguish and suffering, then, we cannot support this world authority, since it is detrimental to the Common Good. .

I could not agree with you more.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

I don’t know what to think about it truthfully. I enjoy reading the encyclicals of the popes but sometimes there are things in there that are hard to understand. I think that the church doesn’t see America as needing anymore money. Basically, we’re mostly rich and probably have too much. The idea is to help developing nations which are suffering under poverty. This centralized bank would help spread the wealth so to speak to these poor nations or so is hoped.

I know it’s hard for us to believe, but the united states isn’t the center of the universe. The church speaks to the entire world. They have a better understanding of what is going on than any government.Good point. We already have a “one world order” with our global economy and international corporations and banks.

When Jesus asked the rich man to sell all he owned and follow him, he walked away sad, now what did Jesus do? I can tell you he did not do, appoint a Roman soldier or hire an overseer to hunt him down take his things and give them away. The document is socialist communist in nature, liberation theology that was fought against for a long time.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

PIUS IX (1846-1878)

The Overthrow of Order

“You are aware indeed, that the goal of this most iniquitous plot is to drive people to overthrow the entire order of human affairs and to draw them over to the wicked theories of this Socialism and Communism, by confusing them with perverted teachings.”
(Encyclical Nostis et Nobiscum, December 8, 1849)
LEO XIII (1878-1903)

Overthrow is Deliberately Planned

“… For, the fear of God and reverence for divine laws being taken away, the authority of rulers despised, sedition permitted and approved, and the popular passions urged on to lawlessness, with no restraint save that of punishment, a change and overthrow of all things will necessarily follow. Yea, this change and overthrow is deliberately planned and put forward by many associations of communists and socialists.”
(Encyclical Humanum Genus, April 20, 1884, n. 27)
SAINT PIUS X (1903-1914)

The Dream of Re-Shaping Society will Bring Socialism

“But stranger still, alarming and saddening at the same time, are the audacity and frivolity of men who call themselves Catholics and dream of re-shaping society under such conditions, and of establishing on earth, over and beyond the pale of the Catholic Church, ‘the reign of love and justice’ … What are they going to produce? … A mere verbal and chimerical construction in which we shall see, glowing in a jumble, and in seductive confusion, the words Liberty, Justice, Fraternity, Love, Equality, and human exultation, all resting upon an ill-understood human dignity. It will be a tumultuous agitation, sterile for the end proposed, but which will benefit the less Utopian exploiters of the people. Yes, we can truly say that the Sillon, its eyes fixed on a chimera, brings Socialism in its train.”
(Apostolic Letter Notre Charge Apostolique “Our Apostolic Mandate”] to the French Bishops, August 15, 1910, condemning the movement Le Sillon)
BENEDICT XV (1914-1922)

Never Forget the Condemnation of Socialism

“It is not our intention here to repeat the arguments which clearly expose the errors of Socialism and of similar doctrines. Our predecessor, Leo XIII, most wisely did so in truly memorable Encyclicals; and you, Venerable Brethren, will take the greatest care that those grave precepts are never forgotten, but that whenever circumstances call for it, they should be clearly expounded and inculcated in Catholic associations and congresses, in sermons and in the Catholic press.”
(Encyclical Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum, November 1, 1914, n. 13
PIUS XII (1939-1958)

The Church Will Fight Socialism to the End

“[The Church undertook] the protection of the individual and the family against a current threatening to bring about a total socialization which in the end would make the specter of the ‘Leviathan’ become a shocking reality. The Church will fight this battle to the end, for it is a question of supreme values: the dignity of man and the salvation of souls.” (“Radio message to the Katholikentag of Vienna,” September 14, 1952 in Discorsi e Radiomessaggi, vol. XIV, p. 314)

The All-Powerful State Harms True Prosperity

“To consider the State as something ultimate to which everything else should be subordinated and directed, cannot fail to harm the true and lasting prosperity of nations.” (Encyclical Summi Pontificatus, October 20, 1939, n. 60)

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

JOHN XXIII (1958-1963)

“No Catholic could subscribe even to moderate socialism”

“Pope Pius XI further emphasized the fundamental opposition between Communism and Christianity, and made it clear that no Catholic could subscribe even to moderate Socialism. The reason is that Socialism is founded on a doctrine of human society which is bounded by time and takes no account of any objective other than that of material well-being. Since, therefore, it proposes a form of social organization which aims solely at production; it places too severe a restraint on human liberty, at the same time flouting the true notion of social authority.” (Encyclical Mater et Magistra, May 15, 1961, n. 34)
PAUL VI (1963-1978)

Christians Tend to Idealize Socialism

“Too often Christians attracted by socialism tend to idealize it in terms which, apart from anything else, are very general: a will for justice, solidarity and equality. They refuse to recognize the limitations of the historical socialist movements, which remain conditioned by the ideologies from which they originated.” (Apostolic Letter Octogesima Adveniens, May 14, 1971, n. 31)
JOHN PAUL II (1978-2005)

Socialism: Danger of a “simple and radical solution”

“It may seem surprising that ‘socialism’ appeared at the beginning of the Pope’s critique of solutions to the ‘question of the working class’ at a time when ‘socialism’ was not yet in the form of a strong and powerful State, with all the resources which that implies, as was later to happen. However, he correctly judged the danger posed to the masses by the attractive presentation of this simple and radical solution to the ‘question of the working class.’” (Encyclical Centesimus Annus - On the 100th anniversary of Pope Leo XIII’s Rerum Novarum, May 1, 1991, n. 12)
BENEDICT XVI (2005 - present)

We do not Need a State which Controls Everything

“The State which would provide everything, absorbing everything into itself, would ultimately become a mere bureaucracy incapable of guaranteeing the very thing which the suffering person - every person - needs: namely, loving personal concern. We do not need a State which regulates and controls everything, but a State which, in accordance with the principle of subsidiarity, generously acknowledges and supports initiatives arising from the different social forces and combines spontaneity with closeness to those in need. … In the end, the claim that just social structures would make works of charity superfluous masks a materialist conception of man: the mistaken notion that man can live ‘by bread alone’ (Mt 4:4; cf. Dt 8:3) - a conviction that demeans man and ultimately disregards all that is specifically human.” (Encyclical Deus Caritas Est, December 25, 2005, n. 28)

 

[SpeakInSilence]

"13 Later they sent some of the Pharisees and Herodians to Jesus to catch him in his words. 14 They came to him and said, “Teacher, we know that you are a man of integrity. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are; but you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. Is it right to pay the imperial tax** to Caesar or not? 15 Should we pay or shouldn’t we?”
But Jesus knew their hypocrisy. “Why are you trying to trap me?” he asked. “Bring me a denarius and let me look at it.” 16 They brought the coin, and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

“Caesar’s,” they replied.

17 Then Jesus said to them, “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.”

And they were amazed at him."

So is Christ a political figure now, here to dictate the petty affairs of men, or did he come to set up the kingdom of God; because that’s what I’m getting from all this…

Also let me add this document is almost a contradiction of Pope Benedicts book on Jesus. I’m very confused by all this.**