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trailblazer
Guest
I LIKE this idea!!! Pro-abortion, pro-stem cell research, pro-euthanasia, pro-homosexual marriage… Yes! I really like this idea!!!
Bob
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Bob
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trailblazer
Guest
God gives life. Regardless of how it came about, no one has the right to murder another. Reminds me of what my parents used to say, “two wrongs don’t make a right!”I completely disagree with abortions in all cases. However there have been occassions when i have heard stories about rape and other terrible ways that a person or particulalry young girl has become pregnant, and my mind odes wander. What alternative do people have sometimes. Each case is unique and it must be very hard in some instances o find an alternative to abortion.
Bob
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Libero
Guest
A very valid point and one that i agree with trailblazer.
J
Jesus4Me
Guest
Her alternative is to have the baby. Abortion should never be an option - it is nothing but the killing of a child. If, for whatever reason, she does not want to raise the child there are married couples across this country who are longing to adopt a child.I completely disagree with abortions in all cases. However there have been occassions when i have heard stories about rape and other terrible ways that a person or particulalry young girl has become pregnant, and my mind odes wander. What alternative do people have sometimes. Each case is unique and it must be very hard in some instances o find an alternative to abortion.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
Catholics who “back” abortion should not take Communion. Voting for a pro-choice candidate does not necessarily constitute “backing” abortion, although it may. Which of two evil human candidates one votes for is an entirely surface method of determining whether someone backs abortion.
Catholics who harbor anger against another should not take Communion.
Catholics who judge others as unworthy to sit at the table should kindly escort them out, and stay out with them because they judge themselves by the same measure.
Anyone who calls a Catholic brother “non-Catholic” because of that person’s views denies the faith and commits spiritual abortion in their heart. These people should also not take Communion.
I guess that about does it. Nobody is worthy of Communion, so we should all just excommunicate ourselves and give up.
Alan
Catholics who harbor anger against another should not take Communion.
Catholics who judge others as unworthy to sit at the table should kindly escort them out, and stay out with them because they judge themselves by the same measure.
Anyone who calls a Catholic brother “non-Catholic” because of that person’s views denies the faith and commits spiritual abortion in their heart. These people should also not take Communion.
I guess that about does it. Nobody is worthy of Communion, so we should all just excommunicate ourselves and give up.
Alan
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Bella3502
Guest
I would almost agree with you except that this rule only applies to HEALTHY WHITE BABIES…only.
D
Dandelion_Wine
Guest
That’s simply not true. Where did you come up with that? Maybe I can introduce you to two families at my church?
P
Pete2
Guest
Why is abortion the only issue that matters to Catholics? I am against abortion, but I find that the sins of the Republicans are far worse:
President Bush is openly against the poor with his pro-rich tax policies. He is openly against God’s earth with his pro-industry environmental policies. He is openly against peace with his pro-war aggressive military policy.
Isn’t it a sin to support a candidate who is against the poor, God’s earth, and peace? Is voting a sin?
Pete
President Bush is openly against the poor with his pro-rich tax policies. He is openly against God’s earth with his pro-industry environmental policies. He is openly against peace with his pro-war aggressive military policy.
Isn’t it a sin to support a candidate who is against the poor, God’s earth, and peace? Is voting a sin?
Pete
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Jesus4Me
Guest
That is just not true. I personally know of couples who would, and know some who have, adopted babies of non-caucasian races. So what you suggest is that only caucasion women should not consider abortion, but non-caucasian women - “hey just go right ahead and have an abortion since no-one will want to adopt your baby anyway”? That’s just ludicrous!
Sorry, but I don’t agree with you. :nope:
O
OneLife2live
Guest
A
Ani_Ibi
Guest
This statement
Libero:
Libero:
contradicts this statement
A
Ani_Ibi
Guest
It isn’t.
Isn’t it a sin to support a candidate who is against the poor, God’s earth, and peace?
Yes. There are however proportional reasons for supporting such a candidate. In the case of abortion there can be no proportional reasons because the harm to the unborn child is not proportional but absolute.
No.
B
Bella3502
Guest
The idea of criminalizing abortion again and telling women that their babies will be adopted is ludicrous, and a big fat lie.
For every white couple that adopts a non white baby here, hundreds go overseas to adopt from Romania, and China…etc. This is reality. You don’t have to agree.
For example, how many white couples go to Africa and adopt children/ babies with AIDS? Very very few. But these same couples pay top dollar to Baby brokers for children with matching skin color. That, to me is sad.
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Pete2
Guest
Ani Ibi:
If your answer is yes, then would you say that it is generally a sin to vote Democratic, since the Dems are generally in favor of abortion rights?
Pete
So in your view, is it always a sin to vote for a candidate that openly supports abortion rights, regardless of the other issues?
If your answer is yes, then would you say that it is generally a sin to vote Democratic, since the Dems are generally in favor of abortion rights?
Pete
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Ani_Ibi
Guest
In my view and in the Church’s view. Your concern with the poor and with keeping the peace has merit. In all fairness we are called to do many things. The teaching about abortion however is this: the harm to the unborn is absolute and there is no recourse for the unborn to recover. For that reason having an abortion and promoting abortion are grave sins. In order to licitly receive communion again, the person must seek reconciliation.
It seems so at the present time. However there is some Church commentary on this. Let’s say all the candidates are pro-abortion. In that case, the principle of double effect is applied and the candidate who will do the least harm should be selected. The issue which Catholics found particularly irksome about the last Federal election in the U.S. was that the Democratic candidate was Catholic, yet still pro-abortion. Kerry.
In the upcoming Canadian elections, Catholics will have to find the candidate in their constituency who has the most pro-life policies. For the most part, this eliminates the Liberals, the NDP, and the Green. Some candidates, however, may be running against their party platforms. This must be taken into consideration. The Conservatives are pro-family but also pro-abortion. If everyone else is pro-abortion, then Catholics would have to vote Conservative.
Notwithstanding this situation, every election we have a dingbat Catholic organizing campaign meetings for the local NDP candidate in our neighbourhood. Technically she would have to present herself to the bishop (not the priest) to seek reconciliation. If she persists in promoting the NDP (which she has), then she should not present herself from communion.
A
Ani_Ibi
Guest
So you want to play the race card? The roots of the abortion movement were in Planned Parenthood, a movement started by Margaret Sanger who wanted to control the population of African Americans who she thought were having too many babies.
The population of African Americans has been reduced by 35% since 1973.
African American deaths since 1973:
AIDS 203 695
Violent Crimes 306 313
Accidents 370 723
Cancer 1 638 350
Heart Disease 2 266 789
Abortion 13 000 000
Black babies are 3 times more likely to lose their lives to abortion than white babies.
In Canada, we have a similar eugenics movement promoting abortion. Dr Henry Morgentaler, who lost his parents to the death camps in WWII, claims that abortions reduce the number of ‘unwanted’ babies. He also claims that ‘unwanted’ babies build death camps and are more likely to become criminals. In Canada, the segment of the population targetted for the most abortions has been the First Nations Peoples.
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SueG
Guest
Boy, this is too easy. which is worse: having your wallet stolen (anti-poor), finding litter on your lawn (anti-environment), getting punched in the nose(pro-war), or letting an infant get decapitated/burned to death/brains sucked out (pro-abortion)?
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
The problem I have is that I have been a low-level politician. I was elected as precinct committeperson, as a member of the KRA (conservative faction – Kansas Republican Assembly, as opposed to the liberal “GOP Club”) of the Republican Party.
I’ve rubbed elbows with these people. I personally attended Todd Tiahrt’s (conservate Republican US rep) victory party in 1994 (?), where he came in with the big Republican sweep. I’ve walked the precinct for primaries and general elections, talking about and carrying literature for pro-life candidates.
I’ve also worked with quite a few Democrats. I even registered as Democrat for a while, because I wanted to try to work against gay marriage from the inside, plus I had aspirations to replace our wonderful conservative (but Democratic) city council member when he retired. He appointed me to a very highly publicized task force to work a dispute between the NAACP and the city regarding alleged racism in city contracting.
Through all that, I honestly cannot tell you that the people I met in either party – including some very hard core types – have a valid claim to spiritual superiority. One particular woman (big pro-life fundamentalist) who was helping my own campaign said some things about evolution that just made my head spin. I really don’t think we can isolate abortion from the entire web, and I’m not even convinced that voting for ostensibly pro-life candidates has any better prognosis for reducing abortion than those who are wishy-washy or even pro-abort.
Politics is sooo complex that just because you vote for a candidate based on what they claim to stand for, and often what they vote for, that doesn’t mean you’re getting an effective champion for the cause.
Politicians make deals all the time, to do things and word things and even vote such that they can bow to lobbyists and special interests, while givingpublic homage to their alleged cause.
Rush Limbaugh was the person who really turned me anti-abortion, and conservative Republican, from a person who was blissfully oblivious to politics before. His “caller abortions” that he once demonstrated but didn’t actually do “in full” because of the backlash, and his argument of precisely how long before birth (5 seconds? 5 days? 5 months?) delineates murder from removing a cyst finally convinced me that most pro-abort arguments are B.S.
Strangely, Rush was very pro-life, but often softpedaled the political aspect of it in terms of keeping abortion illegal. He said this is something that will have to be won in the hearts of many people if we’re ever going to turn it around.
The sides are too equally matched to fight this effectively on a legal basis. Of course, if we can get Roe v Wade overturned, that would be significant. Other than that, it’s all small gains, and not really convincingly victorious.
My 14-year-old daughter asked me an odd question the other day, that she had once asked a religion teacher and didn’t get any useful response. She asked, “what if God’s purpose for the aborted babies is just that?”
Wow. What a concept. This from my conservative very Catholic daughter, who won awards for her school by her knowledge of Catholic theology and knows 50 times as much as I do about it.
Personally I don’t think the real victims of abortion are the babies. They never really develop an identity of self, so they don’t fear death. I’m thinking the abortion mills are like pumps to take tiny babies and convert them straight into saints, flooding the heavens with saints. At some point, this evil cannot help but come and backfire against all those perpetrators, the real victims. With thousands of saints being added to heaven every day, I think the stakes are going to get higher and higher.
Alan
I’ve rubbed elbows with these people. I personally attended Todd Tiahrt’s (conservate Republican US rep) victory party in 1994 (?), where he came in with the big Republican sweep. I’ve walked the precinct for primaries and general elections, talking about and carrying literature for pro-life candidates.
I’ve also worked with quite a few Democrats. I even registered as Democrat for a while, because I wanted to try to work against gay marriage from the inside, plus I had aspirations to replace our wonderful conservative (but Democratic) city council member when he retired. He appointed me to a very highly publicized task force to work a dispute between the NAACP and the city regarding alleged racism in city contracting.
Through all that, I honestly cannot tell you that the people I met in either party – including some very hard core types – have a valid claim to spiritual superiority. One particular woman (big pro-life fundamentalist) who was helping my own campaign said some things about evolution that just made my head spin. I really don’t think we can isolate abortion from the entire web, and I’m not even convinced that voting for ostensibly pro-life candidates has any better prognosis for reducing abortion than those who are wishy-washy or even pro-abort.
Politics is sooo complex that just because you vote for a candidate based on what they claim to stand for, and often what they vote for, that doesn’t mean you’re getting an effective champion for the cause.
Politicians make deals all the time, to do things and word things and even vote such that they can bow to lobbyists and special interests, while givingpublic homage to their alleged cause.
Rush Limbaugh was the person who really turned me anti-abortion, and conservative Republican, from a person who was blissfully oblivious to politics before. His “caller abortions” that he once demonstrated but didn’t actually do “in full” because of the backlash, and his argument of precisely how long before birth (5 seconds? 5 days? 5 months?) delineates murder from removing a cyst finally convinced me that most pro-abort arguments are B.S.
Strangely, Rush was very pro-life, but often softpedaled the political aspect of it in terms of keeping abortion illegal. He said this is something that will have to be won in the hearts of many people if we’re ever going to turn it around.
The sides are too equally matched to fight this effectively on a legal basis. Of course, if we can get Roe v Wade overturned, that would be significant. Other than that, it’s all small gains, and not really convincingly victorious.
My 14-year-old daughter asked me an odd question the other day, that she had once asked a religion teacher and didn’t get any useful response. She asked, “what if God’s purpose for the aborted babies is just that?”
Wow. What a concept. This from my conservative very Catholic daughter, who won awards for her school by her knowledge of Catholic theology and knows 50 times as much as I do about it.
Personally I don’t think the real victims of abortion are the babies. They never really develop an identity of self, so they don’t fear death. I’m thinking the abortion mills are like pumps to take tiny babies and convert them straight into saints, flooding the heavens with saints. At some point, this evil cannot help but come and backfire against all those perpetrators, the real victims. With thousands of saints being added to heaven every day, I think the stakes are going to get higher and higher.
Alan
J
Jesus4Me
Guest
Yes, it is sad. To me, it’s also sad that babies are killed before they are born - often because it would be too inconvenient to give birth and raise them. Obviously, this isn’t the reason for every abortion, but it sometimes is and THIS makes me sad.
If you are saying that the abortion alternative is wrong and the adoption alternative is flawed, I would rather choose a flawed alternative than an alternative that is a mortal sin.
B
Bella3502
Guest
Ani Ibi:
Besides the inaccurate statistics, what’s your point?
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