Vatican change of heart over 'barbaric' Crusades

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Shadowcry:
Then by your logic you are anti Muslim. And you have already proven it .
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O.K. then by your logic Pro_Universal is anti-Catholic as I have suggested, thanks for proving my point.
 
I have no idea what you are talking about.
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that’s because you were too busy bashing muslims to notice the outrageous things being said against them.
Really? Stating that Muslims deny the divinity of Christ and that it is heresy is theological chest-beating?
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No, recommending a book that labels the crusades as a misunderstood quest for justice and calling anyone who disagrees with your idea of how christians should relate to other faiths “muslim” is theological chest beating.
 
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Mike_D30:
Then 50% of eduacted males in Saudi Arabia are terrorists.

Please we all saw the Muslim world lept for joy when the towers were hit and thousands of people died. The Muslim world united in praise to God, that the infidel was being killed.

No matter of the PC leftists trying to rewrite history will ever make people forget that.
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I recommend you actually invest in some course of professional study for history before you decide what is “PC leftist rewriting” or not.
 
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Mike_D30:
O.K. then by your logic Pro_Universal is anti-Catholic as I have suggested, thanks for proving my point.
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You said you were or might be an Anti Muslim, he didn’t that is the differnce.
 
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pro_universal:
I recommend you actually invest in some course of professional study for history before you decide what is “PC leftist rewriting” or not.
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Yeah O.K. go look at your synopsis of the Crusades, then I recommend a respected book by one of the most knowledgable historians in America on the Crusades, and you dismiss it.

I suggest you do the same.

Course of study I watched the towers came to the ground, I don’t think I need a course of study. Nor will allow liberal socialists rewrite history.

Can you stop the game, stop pretending you’re Catholic seriously, you aren’t it’s obvious.
 
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pro_universal:
that’s because you were too busy bashing muslims to notice the outrageous things being said against them.
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I’m not bashing Muslims. I’m making it known that Islam is not truth.
No, recommending a book that labels the crusades as a misunderstood quest for justice and calling anyone who disagrees with your idea of how christians should relate to other faiths “muslim” is theological chest beating.
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Politically Inorrect means it doesn’t dance around truth so as not to hurt anyone’s feelings.
 
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Mike_D30:
Yeah O.K. go look at your synopsis of the Crusades, then I recommend a respected book by one of the most knowledgable historians in America on the Crusades, and you dismiss it.

I suggest you do the same.
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I didn’t dismiss it, I stated what it was: the reader’s digest version of the Crusades. It’s designed to be easy to read and for people with no real interest in academic study of the period.

But even then, I do not think you have read the book, because I’m not sure how you would’ve done that while simultaneously claiming the crusades were a great push for justice.
 
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Eden:
I’m not bashing Muslims. I’m making it known that Islam is not truth.

Politically Inorrect means it doesn’t dance around truth so as not to hurt anyone’s feelings.
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More often, titling something “Politically Incorrect” means: “The Author has his own agenda and wants to label everything else ‘leftist revisionism’”.

That’s certainly the case with Spencer’s books.
 
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pro_universal:
But even then, I do not think you have read the book, because I’m not sure how you would’ve done that while simultaneously claiming the crusades were a great push for justice.
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You will of course be able to quote me where I said the Crusades were “a great push for justice”

All I said was there’s more to the story than Catholics killed every man woman and child in Jerusalem, and killed Jews everywhere like you asserted.

It’s a well respected book, you knocking it with your wannabe intellectual flare doesn’t change that. You prove your ignorance on the Crusades by your attempts to summarize them.

Here’s his quote:
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“What kind of just cause is that, to go on a bloody tirade, killing Jews in Europe, robbing the Italians, killing every man woman and child in Jerusalem”*

Yes, you’re right how dare I attempt to defend the Catholic Church against your lopsided hateful assertions. Yeah your decription was right on, I can see how scholarly it is… :rolleyes:
 
The crusades were simple really. The Muslims attacked Christian territories. They continued to push and invade. They presented an ongoing threat especially to pilgrims to Jerusalem. Eventually the Christians began to push back. This of course annoyed the Muslims. “How dare those infidels try to take back what we took!” Over time we became stronger and the era of colonialism began. Oh how terrible. The Muslims now were on the receiving end. So they demand apologies while never ever ever apologizing for what they started. If they hadn’t started this war, beginning in Mecca, we would be better off. Their whole mindset is on using jihad as a means of world conquest. That is the cause of the problem. Our fighting back is NOT the problem, it’s the solution.
 
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cestusdei:
The crusades were simple really. The Muslims attacked Christian territories. They continued to push and invade. They presented an ongoing threat especially to pilgrims to Jerusalem. Eventually the Christians began to push back. This of course annoyed the Muslims. “How dare those infidels try to take back what we took!” Over time we became stronger and the era of colonialism began. Oh how terrible. The Muslims now were on the receiving end. So they demand apologies while never ever ever apologizing for what they started. If they hadn’t started this war, beginning in Mecca, we would be better off. Their whole mindset is on using jihad as a means of world conquest. That is the cause of the problem. Our fighting back is NOT the problem, it’s the solution.
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Cestusdei, why dont’ you tell us what is an acceptable method for “fighting back”?

Do you want to rescind your previous comments about nuclear weapons, or do you believe the use of nuclear weapons is justified in teh same way that the crusades were justified?
 
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pro_universal:
More often, titling something “Politically Incorrect” means: “The Author has his own agenda and wants to label everything else ‘leftist revisionism’”.

That’s certainly the case with Spencer’s books.
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Well, if I can find a copy of it and read it, I’ll let you know if you were correct.
 
And if you agree with him you just might be biased.

Anyway this discussion has proven fruitless I am gladly leaving it.

Good day to you.
 
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Shadowcry:
And if you agree with him you just might be biased.

Anyway this discussion has proven fruitless I am gladly leaving it.

Good day to you.
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Well, if you haven’t read it, can you really say?
 
pro, they didn’t have nukes back then. Don’t worry though. Soon your buddies in Iran will have them. That will solve all the problems won’t it? When one blows up New York I will be curious as to how you will justify it. I know you won’t condemn it.

shadow, freedom of speech. Spencer would be executed in Pakistan wouldn’t he? I like Madden’s Concise History of the Crusades.
 
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cestusdei:
pro, they didn’t have nukes back then. Don’t worry though. Soon your buddies in Iran will have them. That will solve all the problems won’t it? When one blows up New York I will be curious as to how you will justify it. I know you won’t condemn it.

shadow, freedom of speech. Spencer would be executed in Pakistan wouldn’t he? I like Madden’s Concise History of the Crusades.
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I’m asking you, cestusdei, what you think is a proper way to “fight back” and whether or not you still believe nukes are appropriate
 
I am asking you pro. Do you believe Muhammed was a prophet and the quran is the word of God? We can go right back to that if you wish. Every post you make proves you are a Muslim.
 
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cestusdei:
I am asking you pro. Do you believe Muhammed was a prophet and the quran is the word of God? We can go right back to that if you wish. Every post you make proves you are a Muslim.
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Alright, here we go: Muhammad was not a Prophet and the Quran is not the word of God.

Now, do you still support the use of Nuclear weapons against muslim holy sites, and if so, how do you support this view with the teachings of the Church?
 
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Contarini:
The Crusades were offensive wars, and in the long run they were unsuccessful (I don’t buy the idea that they prevented Europe from becoming Muslim, unless you are counting the wars in southeastern Europe and the Mediterranean in the later Middle Ages and early modern period).

But they were clearly counterattacks. Christendom had been under attack from Islam for nearly half a millenium by the time the Crusades were launched. (Granted, the Abbasid Empire hadn’t been very aggressive, but there had been vicious raiding in the Mediterranean that had devastated large parts of Italy.)

I don’t think Christians need to apologize for the Crusades themselves. I do think we need to repent for the violence that took place in the course of the Crusades, and in particular for the way that they undercut rather than supporting Eastern Chrsitianity.

Edwin
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Very well said, my friend! Very well said!

Blessings,
 
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