Vatican Checking Up On US Nuns!

[po18guy]

Wow This post reeks with HATE Fergal! You might want to talk to someone about that. (a priest? a counsellor?)

While I do appreciate the more traditional orders myself (someday,God willing, I hope to become a nun), you are lumping a lot of good in with the bad. Not that there are any corrupt priests around.:nope: Let’s keep a perspective on this.

I do agree that his checkup is good, and I hope good comes from it.

Is not the use of “HATE” a marginalizing term, especially since you do not know the heart of the poster? The reality of a visitation, along with opposition calls to resist, stand as prima facie evidence of the allegations being investigated. In America, at least, “some” of the orders have run amok. In america, some of the Bishops have run amok. Heck, you could argue that the American Church as a whole is in need of a tune-up.

When you see radical sisters from the 1960s, now in their 70s, cutting fences around US military installations, then entering and vandalizing, you have to wonder about their spirituality. How many abortion clinics did they drive past to protest missiles that have never been launched?

The visitation is an extremely rare occurrence. The Vatican does not simply do this for drill. Given the reaction from some, it is high time for a visitation.

 

[po18guy]

From the NYT article - “Cardinal Levada sent a letter to the Leadership Conference saying an investigation was warranted because it appeared that the organization had done little since it was warned eight years ago that it had failed to “promote” the church’s teachings on three issues: the male-only priesthood, homosexuality and the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church as the means to salvation.”

I wonder where those crazy nuns got an idea like that? -

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."330

The key here is the word “primacy”. And, where does the Church advocate for female priests, or for active homosexuality? Let’s not panic here. The more secular the orders have become, the older their demographic is and the emptier their residences.

 

[JustaServant]

Reminds me of an old thread I started
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=5402258#post5402258

See the first reply

Somebody’s gotta bring humor to the this forum, way too much seriousness.

 

[Fergal]

Wow This post reeks with HATE Fergal! You might want to talk to someone about that. (a priest? a counsellor?)

While I do appreciate the more traditional orders myself (someday,God willing, I hope to become a nun), you are lumping a lot of good in with the bad. Not that there are any corrupt priests around.:nope: Let’s keep a perspective on this.

I do agree that his checkup is good, and I hope good comes from it.

Thank you TeresaAnn. Believe you me there is no hate in me towards anyone. I have a great dislike for the twisted philosophies the embrace, invent and deliver in the name of the Church. I have an Aunt who has stayed faithful to her habit only to endure extreme pressure and snide remarks from her more ‘enlighteded’ sisters. To hear what she and others like her have to put up with is absolutley heart breaking. Like wise we had a young Polish Nun come to a Parish near me on appointment to wotk with a more enlightened ‘sister’ who had long abandoned the veil. Likewise she endured continuous hassle over her wearing of the veil to a point where she tendered her resignation and returned to Poland.

I see that you are considering a vocation to become a bride of Christ. Congratulations. I will pray for you that you consider an order where the habit is obligatory and community is the essence of their way of life.

If you perceive that there is HATE in my post then by all means enjoy your judgement. I know it is not very PC to be direct these days. :tiphat:

 

[JustaServant]

I believe much of this stems from the lack of the understanding of symbolism in garments in western (particularily American) society. Garments and what we where have no meaning anymore, whereas in other cultures, they do.

 

[Lisa44]

The key here is the word “primacy”. And, where does the Church advocate for female priests, or for active homosexuality? Let’s not panic here. The more secular the orders have become, the older their demographic is and the emptier their residences.

Right, would that be the primacy of the Muslims above pagans?

 

[TeresaAnn]

Is not the use of “HATE” a marginalizing term, especially since you do not know the heart of the poster? The reality of a visitation, along with opposition calls to resist, stand as prima facie evidence of the allegations being investigated. In America, at least, “some” of the orders have run amok. In america, some of the Bishops have run amok. Heck, you could argue that the American Church as a whole is in need of a tune-up.

When you see radical sisters from the 1960s, now in their 70s, cutting fences around US military installations, then entering and vandalizing, you have to wonder about their spirituality. How many abortion clinics did they drive past to protest missiles that have never been launched?

The visitation is an extremely rare occurrence. The Vatican does not simply do this for drill. Given the reaction from some, it is high time for a visitation.

I use the word because that is the feeling that radiated off the post when I read it. I thought there must be more behind it since I personally have not seen cause to judge a group so harshly. I don’t claim to know the poster, I commented on his post. Now that he has elaborated below some of his experiences I see where some of his feelings come from. Still, I dislike generalizations and feel sad that the group that is being judged as a whole and so harshly has many good sisters lumped in with the bad.

I don’t disagree with the rest of of your post po18guy. To tell you the truth I haven’t heard about the radical sisters you mention. I am not doubting you, it’s just news to me. I ended my post saying that I think the check up is a good thing, and I hope good comes from it. I will pray for a successful outcome.

 

[TeresaAnn]

Thank you TeresaAnn. Believe you me there is no hate in me towards anyone. I have a great dislike for the twisted philosophies the embrace, invent and deliver in the name of the Church. I have an Aunt who has stayed faithful to her habit only to endure extreme pressure and snide remarks from her more ‘enlighteded’ sisters. To hear what she and others like her have to put up with is absolutley heart breaking. Like wise we had a young Polish Nun come to a Parish near me on appointment to wotk with a more enlightened ‘sister’ who had long abandoned the veil. Likewise she endured continuous hassle over her wearing of the veil to a point where she tendered her resignation and returned to Poland.

I see that you are considering a vocation to become a bride of Christ. Congratulations. I will pray for you that you consider an order where the habit is obligatory and community is the essence of their way of life.

If you perceive that there is HATE in my post then by all means enjoy your judgement. I know it is not very PC to be direct these days. :tiphat:

Hi Fergal, I called it hate, because that is how it came across to me. I apologize for the harsh word if that is not what you intended to convey. Now that you let me know more of your experiences I can see where these intense feelings come from. That is terrible that your Aunt has had to be treated like that. As well as the young Nun. I see the tides changing though. It has become very apparent that the young women called to religious life are tending to prefer the more traditional orders and want to wear the habit. Perhaps this is distressing to some of these radical Nuns

Thank-you Fergal, yes these types of orders are the ones I am attracted to and would be grateful to be apart of.

May God bless you, and your Aunt as well, she will be in my prayers.

Teresa Ann

 

[Fergal]

Hi Fergal, I called it hate, because that is how it came across to me. I apologize for the harsh word if that is not what you intended to convey. Now that you let me know more of your experiences I can see where these intense feelings come from. That is terrible that your Aunt has had to be treated like that. As well as the young Nun. I see the tides changing though. It has become very apparent that the young women called to religious life are tending to prefer the more traditional orders and want to wear the habit. Perhaps this is distressing to some of these radical Nuns

Thank-you Fergal, yes these types of orders are the ones I am attracted to and would be grateful to be apart of.

May God bless you, and your Aunt as well, she will be in my prayers.

Teresa Ann

Again thank you.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

I know sisters whose monastery now has very liberal sisters in leadership positions. It is difficult for the more orthodox members. The much older sisters continue to wear the habit or a modified version of it. The leaders accept that because those sisters are quite elderly not influential. Several of the younger sisters have left (or are in therapy). The sisters in their 40’s, 50’s, and 60’s are caught. They have lived there their whole lives in answer to their vocation and the order has changed on them. They stay but it’s a trial to them. I think this order needs to be reined in. The vatican visitors have a hard row to hoe.

 

[po18guy]

I use the word because that is the feeling that radiated off the post when I read it. I thought there must be more behind it since I personally have not seen cause to judge a group so harshly. I don’t claim to know the poster, I commented on his post. Now that he has elaborated below some of his experiences I see where some of his feelings come from. Still, I dislike generalizations and feel sad that the group that is being judged as a whole and so harshly has many good sisters lumped in with the bad.

A couple of things: fergal mentions “many”, rather than “majority”, “most” or “all”. This seems fair to me, as only a “few” would not likely trigger an Apostolic visitation. Regarding the post: the written word, when it lacks a voice, when it lacks the tonal inflection and the subtle nuances of the spoken word, can easily mislead as to its meaning and intent. I don’t think that our consecrated sisters in Christ were being judged as a group, since the so many of them are loving, orthodox members of His Body.

I don’t disagree with the rest of of your post po18guy. To tell you the truth I haven’t heard about the radical sisters you mention. I am not doubting you, it’s just news to me. I ended my post saying that I think the check up is a good thing, and I hope good comes from it. I will pray for a successful outcome.

Well, the genesis of all of this goes back to the 1960s, when the shedding of habits occurred, even in temperate climates. Knowing human nature, such secularization of dress was caused by, and also contributed to a certain secularization of beliefs and actions. Let’s fast forward 40+ years and you can see that some orders (or portions of orders) have spun nearly out of control. Feminist thinking - even lesbian thinking, has not only taken root, but is apparently flourishing in certain (limited) places.

Clearly, too much of our world has crept into the Holy Orders. Too much of the world has crept into the Church. Too many “baptisms” were attempted in the name of the non-gender specific “creator, redeemer and sanctifier”. We bemoan this in many of the threads in these forums - and with good reason. When such heterodoxy begins to approach the tipping point, action must be taken. If we believe in God, we must also believe in the evil one. This is exactly how the evil one works - as smoke entering the Church through the gap beneath the door. We are seeing how decades of smoke has clouded the thoughts and actions of some.

Here are a few reports of the incident I commented on. As I said, how many abortion clinics did they pass on their way to vandalize government property? These are Dominican Sisters, and two reports are from friendly activist sites. The third is from Catholic.org:

commondreams.org/headlines02/1204-06.htm

jonahhouse.org/stand_firm.htm

catholic.org/diocese/diocese_story.php?id=26363

 

[po18guy]

Right, would that be the primacy of the Muslims above pagans?

Certainly, ecumenism has its limits!

 

[DARRYLW]

About time!

Yes, I also agree that the nuns hear in the US have gone in a different direction.
But, nuns that I know in the Traditional Latin Mass groups are great and give even more and are very spirtual. The N.O. nuns could take a lession from them.
DarrylW :clapping:

 

[Cracker_Mom]

Makes you wonder how Mother Teresa’s nuns manage to minister to all while wearing habits?

 

[Cracker_Mom]

Yes, I also agree that the nuns hear in the US have gone in a different direction.
But, nuns that I know in the Traditional Latin Mass groups are great and give even more and are very spirtual. The N.O. nuns could take a lession from them.
DarrylW :clapping:

Not be hard & cynical but I think the more liberal orders are tending to die out.Many of the non-habited/politically liberal nuns we know are 60 years old & up.Age is taking its toll & the younger sisters seem to be in the more orthodox orders.
Probably in time there will be a greater representation of traditional orders in our country & hopefully abroad, as well.Goodness knows we need it.
We know a wonderful young sister in the Hawthorne Dominicans.And others in the Nashville Dominicans.

 

[Absolution]

Why single out the nuns? The doctrinal and moral errors committed by the leadership of the American church (e.g. Cardinal Mahoney) has done far more damage to the cause of Christ and His Church in America than some liberal nuns!

 

[Cracker_Mom]

I’m not sure why a simple habit would be an issue if it was designed for that type of weather.

 

[JamieMc]

You are right—I can’t imagine how someone can manage to work in the heat with headgear and long flowing robes:

 

[Cracker_Mom]

You are right—I can’t imagine how someone can manage to work in the heat with headgear and long flowing robes:

http://islamzpeace.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/2434191640_2ed3b312be.jpg

Thanks! I kind of was thinking about Middle Eastern garb, too.Mother Teresa’s nuns seem to work just fine in all kind of weather among all kinds of disparate folk with their habits on.Actually a simple, climate appropriate habit seems more practical than street clothes to me.
Thanks for the photo!

 

[Orthodox1047]

I think you are over generalizing. I know many fine women religious who do not wear a habit but do live in community and do work tirelessly for the Church and are not dissobedient. The habit does not make the religious. These women dedicate their lives to Christ and many, many work well into their 80’s FULL TIME while priests generally retire at 75 and spend retirement on the golf course. It is not a put down on priests, they do deserve to retire, and enjoy life (my pastor is waiting for the day anxiously) but so do the sisters. One sister I know in her late 70’s works at least 12 hours a day then also has a second part time job. They need to support their order. Not only do they work but they also have duties within the congregation, such as development, spirituality, finances etc. These women are wonderful and just because they do not wear a habit does not make them out to be what you describe.

The only order I know of whose rule specifically requires them to wear [modestly] secular dress is: The Sisters of St. Joseph [Religieuses Hospitaliere de Saint Joseph] founded in France by a layman. This order built hospitals [Hotel Dieux] in Canada. I am also familiar with the Sisters of Charity who for decades threw out their Habits and Veil while telling us thatthey had petitioned Rome and they just knew that it would be approved. To this day, over forty years past, they have never received permission. Thus they have been in a state of Disobedience all this time. These orders are also dying out, while orders of “Veiled” sisters such as Mother Theresa’s [of Calcutta] have blossomed!