Vatican consultant responds to Cardinal Mahoney ‘Christ gave Judas communion’ argument

[Abyssinia]

Canon lawyer and Vatican legal consultant Edward Peters has countered one cardinal’s argument that publicly pro-abortion politicians should be granted communion because Jesus Christ gave Holy Communion to Judas Iscariot.

Cardinal Roger Mahoney, archbishop emeritus of Los Angeles, made the comparison in an interview with Los Angeles Times reporter Tim Rutten published March 9.

lifesitenews.com/news/vatican-consultant-responds-to-cardinal-mahoney-christ-gave-judas-communion

 

[chevalier]

I do not agree with Card. Mahoney’s view. But:

Jesus would have been “acting in anticipatory obedience to the 1983 Code”

Excuse me? Our Lord acting in obedience to ecclasiastical legislation? I’m speechless. The Church derives any authority from God and not the other way round.

 

[Ignatius]

Canon lawyer and Vatican legal consultant Edward Peters has countered one cardinal’s argument that publicly pro-abortion politicians should be granted communion because Jesus Christ gave Holy Communion to Judas Iscariot.

Cardinal Roger Mahoney, archbishop emeritus of Los Angeles, made the comparison in an interview with Los Angeles Times reporter Tim Rutten published March 9.

lifesitenews.com/news/vatican-consultant-responds-to-cardinal-mahoney-christ-gave-judas-communion

Cardinal Mahoney’s superior should quickly discipline him. He is causing Scandal and leading many to commit sacrilege against the Most Blessed Sacrament. This must be dealt with quickly. The longer he is allowed to do this the more subordinate bishops and priests will lead more of the faithful into grievous sin.

I pray that the Holy See will take swift action to discipline this errant Shepard from misleading the flock of Christ.

 

[HickmanJosh]

well if its Christs Body and blood and He gave it to Judas i hardly think that’s bad

 

[Luke65]

I do not agree with Card. Mahoney’s view. But:

Excuse me? Our Lord acting in obedience to ecclasiastical legislation? I’m speechless. The Church derives any authority from God and not the other way round.

Why are you astonished? Did not God give the Law to Moses? Did not Jesus obey the Law of Moses? He did, just as He who gives the Law of Christ to His Church obeyed the Law of Christ Himself. This is perfectly consistent; Mr. Peters made an excellent, valid point. Cardinal Mahoney made a straw man argument and was called on it. Oh, if this was the biggest of his errors!

 

[Peggy_in_Burien]

I was always taught, in my Catholic schooling, that Jesus gave Judas Communion, because Judas had not yet committed the sin of betraying Our Lord. Judas stll had time to decide not to give in to temptation, just as any of us do.

However, to continue to publicly give Communion to folks who publicly support abortion and same sex unions, politicians or otherwise, leaves me wide-mouthed with shock and moral indignation. The better thing by far, I think, would be for the priest to announce loudly, when such a politician, known to be committing public scandal, arrives at the Communion Rail, that he is refusing Communion to this person, until such a time as this person presents him/herself for Confession.

That’s my humble, peasant-faith opinion.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

The better thing by far, I think, would be for the priest to announce loudly, when such a politician, known to be committing public scandal, arrives at the Communion Rail, that he is refusing Communion to this person, until such a time as this person presents him/herself for Confession.

That’s my humble, peasant-faith opinion.

Why stop at politicians? He could make that announcement anytime any Catholic presents him or herself for Communion unworthily. “I see Mrs. Jones here. I know her to have been committing adultery with Mr. Smith. There will be no Communion for either until they come to Confession.”

I can just see that going over well.

 

[Peggy_in_Burien]

Why stop at politicians? He could make that announcement anytime any Catholic presents him or herself for Communion unworthily. “I see Mrs. Jones here. I know her to have been committing adultery with Mr. Smith. There will be no Communion for either until they come to Confession.”

I can just see that going over well.

I never said it would go over well. Maybe the priest could just write their names in the dust.

I was referring to politicians who loudly proclaim their Catholicity during their campaigns, but also campaign pro-abortion or pro-same sex marriage at the same time. You can’t be both pro-abortion and pro-same sex marriage and be Catholic. Just doesn’t work.

 

[John21652]

I was always taught, in my Catholic schooling, that Jesus gave Judas Communion, because Judas had not yet committed the sin of betraying Our Lord. Judas stll had time to decide not to give in to temptation, just as any of us do.

However, to continue to publicly give Communion to folks who publicly support abortion and same sex unions, politicians or otherwise, leaves me wide-mouthed with shock and moral indignation. The better thing by far, I think, would be for the priest to announce loudly, when such a politician, known to be committing public scandal, arrives at the Communion Rail, that he is refusing Communion to this person, until such a time as this person presents him/herself for Confession.

That’s my humble, peasant-faith opinion.

Hey guess what Peggy in Burien, I was taught the same thing on the other side of the world. You know, back when the Catholic Chgurch and everybody in it was on the same page. I was also taught that at the time of the Last Supper all Judas had done was contemplate doing wrong. He hadn’t actually done anything wrong. If everyone who had ever contemplated doing wrong were to be denied communion, communion wouldn’t be given to anyone!!

As for giving Communion to anyone who has actually done wrong and has not confessed and is therefore not in a state of grace, well, if they have publicly shamed and wronged the Church, as in publicly supporting abortion, homosexuality etc, etc, then let them be publicly shamed by an equally public refusal on the part of the Church to allow them Communion.

As for Rick’s mention of the adulterous Mr Smith and Mrs Jones, well, if someone spoke up and word got around that someone might speak up, I’d lay odds that the incidence of adultery would fall.

 

[jdnation]

There is something very important to recall here.

Judas DID NOT BELIEVE in the Eucharist.

When Christ gave the command to his followers that they must eat His body and drink His blood in John 6, many turned away from him, one of them was Judas Iscariot!

But Judas remained amongst them, he did not publicly show that he was against them. Aside from his own greed for money and thievery he did not otherwise cause scandal as of yet.

When Christ was offering communion during the last supper, Judas was probably still in his own mind debating his actions. Receiving communion from Christ might’ve helped if only he believed in the words of our Lord. He didn’t.

Priests should withold the Eucharist from those they know to be in open rebellion and scandal against our Lord because receiving Him in an unworthy state will bring a grave condemnation on them! It would be an act of mercy and charity to prevent them from receiving it.

 

[Peggy_in_Burien]

There is something very important to recall here.

Judas DID NOT BELIEVE in the Eucharist.

When Christ gave the command to his followers that they must eat His body and drink His blood in John 6, many turned away from him, one of them was Judas Iscariot!

When Christ was offering communion during the last supper, Judas was probably still in his own mind debating his actions. Receiving communion from Christ might’ve helped if only he believed in the words of our Lord. He didn’t.

Priests should withold the Eucharist from those they know to be in open rebellion and scandal against our Lord because receiving Him in an unworthy state will bring a grave condemnation on them! It would be an act of mercy and charity to prevent them from receiving it.

I agree totally!

 

[dans0622]

…Excuse me? Our Lord acting in obedience to ecclasiastical legislation? I’m speechless. The Church derives any authority from God and not the other way round.

Hello chevalier,

Dr. Peters wrote: “…and if one will permit a bit of canon lawyer humor here—I suggest that Jesus, in giving Judas Communion, would have just been acting in anticipatory obedience to the 1983 Code!”

You obviously did *not *permit any “canon lawyer humor.”

Dan

 

[chevalier]

Hello chevalier,

Dr. Peters wrote: “…and if one will permit a bit of canon lawyer humor here—I suggest that Jesus, in giving Judas Communion, would have just been acting in anticipatory obedience to the 1983 Code!”

You obviously did *not *permit any “canon lawyer humor.”

Dan

Thanks. The previous part wasn’t quoted in the article under the link.

 

[dans0622]

Thanks. The previous part wasn’t quoted in the article under the link.

Indeed! I did not bother to read the lifesitenews article so I was unaware of their deletion of the introductory phrase. I assumed that the OP linked directly to Dr. Peters’ blog. That was a mistake on my part and it was a rather glaring omission on the part of lifesitenews.

Dan

 

[Brendan]

Cardinal Mahoney’s superior should quickly discipline him. He is causing Scandal and leading many to commit sacrilege against the Most Blessed Sacrament. This must be dealt with quickly. The longer he is allowed to do this the more subordinate bishops and priests will lead more of the faithful into grievous sin.

I pray that the Holy See will take swift action to discipline this errant Shepard from misleading the flock of Christ.

Cardinal Mahony ( no ‘e’) has submitted his resignation and it has been accepted. He is now retired. He has no subordinate bishops or priests.

 

[baylee]

There is something very important to recall here.

Judas DID NOT BELIEVE in the Eucharist.

When Christ gave the command to his followers that they must eat His body and drink His blood in John 6, many turned away from him, one of them was Judas Iscariot!

But Judas remained amongst them, he did not publicly show that he was against them. Aside from his own greed for money and thievery he did not otherwise cause scandal as of yet.

When Christ was offering communion during the last supper, Judas was probably still in his own mind debating his actions. Receiving communion from Christ might’ve helped if only he believed in the words of our Lord. He didn’t.

Priests should withold the Eucharist from those they know to be in open rebellion and scandal against our Lord because receiving Him in an unworthy state will bring a grave condemnation on them! It would be an act of mercy and charity to prevent them from receiving it.

Do we know this? I recall disciples leaving Him, but I don’t recall the 12.

 

[Peggy_in_Burien]

Do we know this? I recall disciples leaving Him, but I don’t recall the 12.

From the Gospel of St. John, chapter 6: 52-71…

52The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us [his] flesh to eat?"53Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.54Whoever east my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will reais him on the last day.55For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.57Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever."59These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

60 Then many of his disciples who were listening said, "This saying is hard; who can accept it?61Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, “Does this shock you?62What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?63It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.64But there are some of you who do not believe.” Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him.65And he said, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.”

66As a result of this, many [of] his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.67Jesus then said to the Twelve, "Do you also want to leave?"68 Simon Peter answered him, Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.69We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God."70Jesus answered them, "Did I not choose you twelve? Yet is not one of you a devil?"71He was referring to Judas, son of Simon the Iscariot; it was he would betray him, one of the Twelve.

 

[isaac_refuerzo]

we are a church of forgiveness, of mercy, we are showing love and kindness not only to a few but to all as THE LORD SHED HIS BLOOD FOR YOU AND FOR ALL SO THAT SINS MAY BE FORGIVEN… DO THIS IN MEMORY OF ME… why not? Jesus gave communion to Judas perhaps with the intention to give him the final act to be saved… to give him a chance, one last chance.

 

[Luke65]

we are a church of forgiveness, of mercy, we are showing love and kindness not only to a few but to all as THE LORD SHED HIS BLOOD FOR YOU AND FOR ALL SO THAT SINS MAY BE FORGIVEN… DO THIS IN MEMORY OF ME… why not? Jesus gave communion to Judas perhaps with the intention to give him the final act to be saved… to give him a chance, one last chance.

No, that is not why Jesus gave the Eucharist to Judas. When one receives the Body and Blood of Our Lord unworthily they bring “judgment on themselves.” (1 Cor. 11:29) They do not receive God’s grace, on the contrary, God withdraws His grace from them. Any chance they had for repentance just got worse.

It is precisely this kind of bad catechesis from bad Catholic teachers that leads Catholics to such a poor understanding of the Church’s teachings, not to mention to a loss of faith. A large majority of American Catholics believe that the Holy Eucharist is only symbolic. And it’s easy to see why.

Here is what Cardinal Mahoney left out:

“As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.” (John 13:27)

 

[baylee]

From the Gospel of St. John, chapter 6: 52-71…

52The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us [his] flesh to eat?"53Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.54Whoever east my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will reais him on the last day.55For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.57Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever."59These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

60 Then many of his disciples who were listening said, "This saying is hard; who can accept it?61Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, “Does this shock you?62What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?63It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.64But there are some of you who do not believe.” Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him.65And he said, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.”

66As a result of this, many [of] his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.67Jesus then said to the Twelve, "Do you also want to leave?"68 Simon Peter answered him, Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.69We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God."70Jesus answered them, "Did I not choose you twelve? Yet is not one of you a devil?"71He was referring to Judas, son of Simon the Iscariot; it was he would betray him, one of the Twelve.

This does not say that Judas left him here. In fact, he is speaking to all of the Twelve here.