Vatican criticizes fence?

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I did not see a thread on the Vatican’s comments about the US fence being cruel. I am very disappointed that the Vatican has gone the easy, unthinking, and automatic route of jumping on the “bash US “ bandwagon. All countries are literally defined by their borders. We have millions of Hispanics and, quite possibly, mid east terrorist swarming over our borders every day. Just what is it the Vatican expects us to do?

Instead of criticism over this country doing its best to defend its own borders the Vatican has to tell us we are the ones who are wrong. When did this world get so backward and so ridiculous that a country like the US is told it can not protect itself? Such silly criticisms seem to always be focused on this great country that has helped millions of people over the years. Why would the Vatican, of all places, join in making the US the brunt of such a comment?
 
Here’s a link to an article about Cardinal Renato Martino’s remarks.

I agree with you, Cossack1. I am deeply offended that the Cardinal compared the fence between the US and Mexico with the Berlin Wall, which was meant to keep people IN a totalitarian country not OUT of a democratic country. It’s irresponsible of him and shows how anti-USA many at the Vatican are–how they’ve just swallow whole the idea that the USA owes people what their own countries cannot/will give them. Sheesh!
 
Thank you for the link. I left the Catholic Church for a while because I believed some of the teachings were arbitrary and had no basis. When I finally read some of the work of the founding fathers, the CCC, and scripture I came back because I could see that the Church taught did indeed make sense.

This attack on the US is just part of the knee jerk anti-US rhetoric that is spouted off by the liberals in France, and other European countries. The Vatican did not even bother to suggest an alternative solution. How can the Cardinal call a fence to secure our borders “inhuman”? I doubt he gave his response any clear thought or reflection.
 
Thank you for the link. I left the Catholic Church for a while because I believed some of the teachings were arbitrary and had no basis. When I finally read some of the work of the founding fathers, the CCC, and scripture I came back because I could see that the Church taught did indeed make sense.
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Yes, sometimes our own people work against keeping people in the Church, all unknowing, by making it seem that their opinions are Church teaching and/or that the Church’s teachings are what they say they are instead of what they really are. It’s no wonder people get confused!
This attack on the US is just part of the knee jerk anti-US rhetoric that is spouted off by the liberals in France, and other European countries. The Vatican did not even bother to suggest an alternative solution. How can the Cardinal call a fence to secure our borders “inhuman”? I doubt he gave his response any clear thought or reflection.
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Exactly! Where is the Cardinals’ indignation against the repressive socialist regime in Mexico that keeps so many of its people in dire poverty? Why does he think they’re all trying to come to the USA? Because we’re a heartless nation with no opportunities for minorities? You’re right. It’s just a knee-jerk reaction with no thought put into it at all. It would be far better for the Cardinal and others who think like he does to keep quiet than to give the world the impression that he is speaking for the Vatican and the Holy Father when that is not at all the case.
 
Sure, and if a Vatican official were to approve the fence, why then, some would consider the statement very nearly infallible.

The Vatican isn’t simply a bunch of ignorant, bureaucratic, mainly Italian priests under the command of a German former Wehrmacht soldier. It in fact represents the Church, and its opinions have to be respected, even if some Americans don’t like what those foreigners have to say.

IWe’ve all seen that some “liberals” don’t like some of what the Vatican says, and now it appears that some “conservatives” find other Vatican pronouncements not to their taste either.
 
I heard on the radio part of a quote from this Cardinal where he deplored the idea of armed US Border Patrol agents stationed at the border ready to “shoot on sight.” Yes, I quoted the right part. If this was an accurate quote from the folks at Relevant Radio news, then this Cardinal is sadly misinformed about reality.

That said, the Vatican is right to criticize the US immigration policy. The fence isn’t inherently wrong. What is wrong is the USE of the fence as a pretense of providing a fix for our broken system. The system won’t work until it provides a reasonable legal route for a reasonable number of legal immigrants. Our quotas right now are so low that if they were actually complied with, the economy would stagger in some major sectors. That is fundamentally unjust and unfairly exploits these illegal immigrants.

Wow, I get to be a leftist for a change. Feels weird.
 
I visited the Vatican this summer. They had barriers up that prevented you from walking unimpeded into St. Peter’s Basilica. They also made you stand in line and submit to searches before going into the sensitive areas. Good ideas all. They would be crazy not to do this. And the problem with a fence along OUR border to control entry into OUR country is what?
 
“Exactly! Where is the Cardinals’ indignation against the repressive socialist regime in Mexico that keeps so many of its people in dire poverty?”

Yep…And where is his indignation about Mexico’s armed guards and fences on its southern border?

“It in fact represents the Church, and its opinions have to be respected, even if some Americans don’t like what those foreigners have to say.”

If a Vatican official is going to tell a sovereign country like the US it is inhuman to put a fence around ITS OWN borders I call it irresponsible. The Cardinal did not even give a viable alternative. Would he have us swing our border gates open and allow the entire world to file in?

“The system won’t work until it provides a reasonable legal route for a reasonable number of legal immigrants.”

That is not realistic since we already have MILLIONS of illegal aliens here now.
 
If you feel that it’s inapropriate for the Vatican to criticize the (so far hypothetical) fence between Mexico and the US because it’s YOUR country and none of THEIR business that’s fine so long as you extend the courtesy and don’t criticize what happens in OTHER countries.

Alternative perspective?

Nazis get miffed at British indignation over the Germany / Poland Border dispute in 1939. When asked, a Waffen SS Officer complained that it was OUR border to extend as WE saw fit and if our Border Guards felt the need to “shoot on sight” of anyone crossing this border as it moved at Blitzkreig speed East, so be it. The British did not offer a “viable alternative” and where was their "indignation against the repressive socialist regime in Russia that keeps so many of its people in dire poverty?”
 
That perspective is not even close.
Durendin said:
If you feel that it’s inapropriate for the Vatican to criticize the (so far hypothetical) fence between Mexico and the US because it’s YOUR country and none of THEIR business that’s fine so long as you extend the courtesy and don’t criticize what happens in OTHER countries.

Alternative perspective?

Nazis get miffed at British indignation over the Germany / Poland Border dispute in 1939. When asked, a Waffen SS Officer complained that it was OUR border to extend as WE saw fit and if our Border Guards felt the need to “shoot on sight” of anyone crossing this border as it moved at Blitzkreig speed East, so be it. The British did not offer a “viable alternative” and where was their "indignation against the repressive socialist regime in Russia that keeps so many of its people in dire poverty?”
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Jeffrey said:
That perspective is not even close.
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Which one, the first or the alternative?

Simply put, if you feel the Vatican is being intrusive into what you perceive to be the domestic affairs of your country, then you have no right to be intrusive into the domestic affairs of others?

Fair enough?
 
One of my favorite things about the catholic church is that it annoys liberals and conservatives at the same time. This has to be the truth. 🙂
 
Likeing (sp?) it to the Berlin Wall. Thats just wrong. That perception no matter who it comes from… is wrong.
Durendin said:
Which one, the first or the alternative?

Simply put, if you feel the Vatican is being intrusive into what you perceive to be the domestic affairs of your country, then you have no right to be intrusive into the domestic affairs of others?

Fair enough?
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Perhaps we could compare this fence to the Great Wall of China? Both intended to keep out invading hordes. The Chinese wall worked well, I read. I don’t think ours will work out very well. jt
 
Thats a good analogy IMO. Thx.
Hey_Jude said:
Perhaps we could compare this fence to the Great Wall of China? Both intended to keep out invading hordes. The Chinese wall worked well, I read. I don’t think ours will work out very well. jt
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Durendin
“If you feel that it’s inapropriate for the Vatican to criticize the (so far hypothetical) fence between Mexico and the US because it’s YOUR country and none of THEIR business that’s fine so long as you extend the courtesy and don’t criticize what happens in OTHER countries.”

You have not stated my arguments accurately. It is not because the US is my county. It is entirely reasonable for the US or ANY country to put up a fence and protect its sovereign borders if millions of illegal aliens are swarming over its borders. ANY country has a right, and even a duty, to protect its citizens.

No one can deny that aliens from Mexico AND possibly from terrorist in the mid-east are invading the US every day. The Vatican criticizes us without offering any alternative solution. It is always easy for European countries to throw stones at the US by telling us we are “evil”, “cruel”, “warmongers,” etc. but these critics always seem to be short on offering help or viable alternatives. The Vatican’s comments are empty and useless.
 
Cossack1 said:
AND possibly from terrorist in the mid-east are invading the US every day.
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The ones from 9/11 came via flights and walked right through airport security even though the Feds knew who they were. If someone is bent on entry you won’t stop them.

Want to get rid of the illegal workers in the US? Send the owners or employers of any company that hires them down for twenty five years. That’ll dry up the job market for illegals overnight and not a machine gun watchtower in sight. Of course, that’s not going to happen as these companies rely on cheap labour so what you’ll get is an exercise in window dressing from the government who secretly encourages such exploitation.
Cossack1 said:
ANY country has a right, and even a duty, to protect its citizens.
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So Iran has a right to nuclear weapons to deter a US invasion?
 
Hello Cossack,

Last I saw the Vatican had a fence (brick wall) around it.

Last I saw there were not 12 million, or even a couple hundred, illegal imigrants living in the Vatican.

Should the Vatican be critisized by presidente’ Fox (Mexico)?
 
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