Vatican demands reform of American nuns' leadership group [CWN]

[KSU]

LCWR/NETWORK/CTA. The new feminism is just a symptom of the work of some old enemies: Homosexualism and Socialism.

HomosexualismandjusticeandSocialismandpeace.

That’s what it sounds like to me after 50 years of watching this multi-faceted cancer attack our Church and political structure in the West. de Tocqueville’s American exceptionalism is just a happy memory that the NEA and some/most Catholic educational institutions seem never to have heard of. Catholicism in Europe is on its death bed. There never again will be a Merry Old England because, like Europe, it chose Homosocialism under the guise of justice and peace.

Some of our justice and peace bishops very publicly attack Republican budget cutting proposals as “immoral” while they lobby Catholics for money for “community groups that create lasting change” because they have “recognized that the lives of those in need will not improve until the systems and policies that keep people in poverty change.” Sound like some politicians we all know?

And today we read this: catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=14401

My point is that I hope the Vatican plans to attack the real enemies as well as the symptoms.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Leaders of U.S. Catholic nuns to address Vatican reprimand about ‘radical’ feminism

The showdown between the Vatican and America’s largest group of Catholic nuns is expected to peak this week when group leaders will meet to determine a response to the Vatican’s reprimand for the group’s “radical feminist themes.”

The church also demands major reforms from the nuns’ group.

The Leadership Conference of Women Religious, initially surprised by the Vatican’s report last month, “plans to move slowly, not rushing to judgment” when the group’s 21-member board meets for three days in Washington, D.C., beginning Tuesday.

“The board will conduct its meeting in an atmosphere of prayer, contemplation and dialogue and will develop a plan to involve LCWR membership in similar processes,” the group said in a statement. “We will engage in dialogue where possible and be open to the movement of the Holy Spirit. We ask your prayer for us and for the Church in this critical time.”

wptz.com/news/national/Leaders-of-U-S-Catholic-nuns-to-address-Vatican-reprimand-about-radical-feminism/-/8869978/14236100/-/vvfp4wz/-/index.html#ixzz1w9sMUBrI

Article claims the LCWR represents 80% of Catholic nuns, that is not true, they represent 3%.

 

[jwinch2]

Article claims the LCWR represents 80% of Catholic nuns, that is not true, they represent 3%.

Yep. A more accurate or honest statement would read that LCWR has members from 80% of the congregations/houses of women religious in the United States and that their total membership makes up approx. 3% all US women religious.

 

[Tigg]

Ah, yes the habit wars. The issue isn’t whether they wear habits or not. Some congregations weren’t founded with habits. Maybe the women religious you remember seeing wore habits, but not all do–or ever did.

I was not aware of this and will take your word for it, but I disagree with your assessment. Images have tremendous power and regarding the habit, as the video in the link below explains, each and every piece of it has significant spiritual symbolism. In their removal and rejection of the habit, they were also shedding the sign of what they once stood for. I can’t help but think that the women in LCWR have symbolically and physically shed their “chains of obedience and submission to a higher authority.” Once that was done (in their hearts,) it progressively became easier to reject core tenets of the faith which has led to the radicalism and heresy they now display.

Here’s what Msgr Pope has to say about religious garb - I agree:

It is clear that the orders that preserve the wearing of the habit along with common life, common prayer, and a focused apostolate are doing better, some quite well, with vocations. Orders that have set aside the habit are largely dying out. It is not the habit alone, I am sure, but the habit (or lack thereof) does signify something important about the health of the religious community.

Religious life is not hidden, neither is it occasional. To enter the priesthood or religious life is to publicly accept the consecration of one’s whole self to the service of God and neighbor. That is why the most traditional religious garb covers the whole body.

patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2011/11/the-silent-testimony-of-clothing/

 

[jwinch2]

We have to be very careful in equating the religious habit with orthodoxy, they are not one in the same. While I agree that it can be a powerful witness, Blessed JP2 said as much in Vita Consecrata, there are many congregations who were never supposed to be in the habit. They are not somehow deficient, or “less religious” as a result. If there are congregations that were supposed to be wearing a habit of some kind and they got rid of them, then they should adopt them again. In addition, if there are some who were not supposed to be wearing them and they adopted them, then they should stop wearing them. The caveat to that is that there may be some congregations who’s constitutions are flexible to the point that they can be amended either way.

While I personally agree that the Habit is a powerful witness and would prefer that more religious wore them, what they wear or do not wear is none of our business, and none of mgr Pope’s business, or any other priest or deacon for that matter. The exceptions of course, are their ordinary if they are a congregation of diocesan right or the Holy See if they are a congregation of pontifical right or a religious order. However, the average priest, deacon, or person in the laity has no voice in what consecrated religious wear.

The real tell of what consecrated religious stand for and the place where we have a legitimate role to play is in what they believe, what they do, and why they do it. Are they faithful to the Gospel? Are they in full communion with the Holy Father? Are they living their Rule and/or Constitutions and vows to the best of their ability? Do they accept and witness to the full deposit of Faith through sacred scripture, sacred tradition, and magesterial authority which has been handed down through the successors to he apostles? These are the things which laypersons as well as priests, deacons, etc. should be vocal about.

 

[catharina]

jwinch2;9345368**:

We have to be very careful in equating the religious habit with orthodoxy, they are not one in the same. While I agree that it can be a powerful witness, Blessed JP2 said as much in Vita Consecrata, there are many congregations who were never supposed to be in the habit. They are not somehow deficient, or “less religious” as a result. If there are congregations that were supposed to be wearing a habit of some kind and they got rid of them, then they should adopt them again. In addition, if there are some who were not supposed to be wearing them and they adopted them, then they should stop wearing them.

**
I agree with you yet many Catholics seem to have no idea that that’s the case.**

The caveat to that is that there may be some congregations who’s constitutions are flexible to the point that they can be amended either way.

While I personally agree that the Habit is a powerful witness and would prefer that more religious wore them, what they wear or do not wear is none of our business, and none of mgr Pope’s business, or any other priest or deacon for that matter. The exceptions of course, are their ordinary if they are a congregation of diocesan right or the Holy See if they are a congregation of pontifical right or a religious order. However, the average priest, deacon, or person in the laity has no voice in what consecrated religious wear.

The real tell of what consecrated religious stand for and the place where we have a legitimate role to play is in what they believe, what they do, and why they do it. Are **they faithful to the Gospel? Are they in full communion with the Holy Father? Are they living their Rule and/or Constitutions and vows to the best of their ability? Do they accept and witness to the full deposit of Faith through sacred scripture, sacred tradition, and magesterial authority which has been handed down through the successors to he apostles? ** Yes - and I applaud the Vatican for addressing these issues.

These are the things which laypersons as well as priests, deacons, etc. should be vocal about.

Good post. Thank you.

 

[jwinch2]

Good post. Thank you.

Thank you,

Peace

 

[OrangeOwl]

This may be a bit out of place to discuss this, but… has anyone had their priests discuss this during their homilies? I was a little alarmed this past Sunday when the priest seemed to begin to express support for nuns, and speak out against the bishops and what he referred to as a “Vatican inquiry.” He seemed particularly upset about the nuns being silenced.

My parents were with me, and they said that their priest (in another town about 200 miles away) had expressed similar sentiments the week before. We had the idea that perhaps our bishop has been telling the priests in this area to speak out about this? It didn’t seem quite appropriate, but I admit I haven’t been paying very close attention to this situation.

 

[jwinch2]

This may be a bit out of place to discuss this, but… has anyone had their priests discuss this during their homilies? I was a little alarmed this past Sunday when the priest seemed to begin to express support for nuns, and speak out against the bishops and what he referred to as a “Vatican inquiry.” He seemed particularly upset about the nuns being silenced.

My parents were with me, and they said that their priest (in another town about 200 miles away) had expressed similar sentiments the week before. We had the idea that perhaps our bishop has been telling the priests in this area to speak out about this? It didn’t seem quite appropriate, but I admit I haven’t been paying very close attention to this situation.

I haven’t seen anything of the sort. I am disappointed to read that you have.

 

[rlg94086]

This may be a bit out of place to discuss this, but… has anyone had their priests discuss this during their homilies? I was a little alarmed this past Sunday when the priest seemed to begin to express support for nuns, and speak out against the bishops and what he referred to as a “Vatican inquiry.” He seemed particularly upset about the nuns being silenced.

My parents were with me, and they said that their priest (in another town about 200 miles away) had expressed similar sentiments the week before. We had the idea that perhaps our bishop has been telling the priests in this area to speak out about this? It didn’t seem quite appropriate, but I admit I haven’t been paying very close attention to this situation.

Not at our parish! Archbishop Sartain came to celebrate Confirmation a couple Wednesdays ago. I wanted to tell him that we are all praying for his efforts with the reform, but I decided to let him enjoy the company of the families.

 

[KSU]

Neither Msgr Pope nor anyone in this thread said all Religious should wear habits whether they ever were supposed to or not.

It’s a non-issue.​

¡Viva Cristo Rey! ¡Viva la Virgen de Guadalupe!

• In theaters, June 1

 

[jwinch2]

Neither Msgr Pope nor anyone in this thread said all Religious should wear habits whether they ever were supposed to or not.

It’s a non-issue.

Not really. Msgr Pope certainly implied as much in the article linked above. A few posts prior to that the statement was made in reference to another article “are these women nuns, then why do they not wear a habit?” In addition, multiple persons throughout the life of this thread have made similar statements.

 

[LisaA]

Vatican protesters gather in NYC

religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/22/vatican-protesters-gather-in-nyc

Are these women nuns? If they are, why do they not wear a habit?

Feminist Angela Bonavoglia says the Vatican’s charges against the LCWR ‘appear, in some measure, to be true:’

thenation.com/article/167986/american-nuns-guilty-charged

This weekend someone in my parish came up to me and asked me to wear a button “I Stand with the Sisters” Is this what that’s all about? She didn’t have time to explain the issue so fortunately I wasn’t put on the spot but I want to be prepared if someone else in the Parish asks me to participate. We have some wonderful Religious in our Parish and I know this investigation is heartbreaking for them as well.

Lisa

 

[Dawnia]

This weekend someone in my parish came up to me and asked me to wear a button “I Stand with the Sisters” Is this what that’s all about? She didn’t have time to explain the issue so fortunately I wasn’t put on the spot but I want to be prepared if someone else in the Parish asks me to participate. We have some wonderful Religious in our Parish and I know this investigation is heartbreaking for them as well.

Lisa

“I Stand with the Sisters” is being pushed by liberal catholic groups like Call to Action and Catholics for Choice. I wish I could find the quote I read earlier, but it was to the effect that the Bishops are out of touch with the Church and need to sit down and shut up.

Here’s one of the articles about the “movement.”
news.yahoo.com/protesters-back-u-nuns-standoff-vatican-185217241.html

 

[LisaA]

“I Stand with the Sisters” is being pushed by liberal catholic groups like Call to Action and Catholics for Choice. I wish I could find the quote I read earlier, but it was to the effect that the Bishops are out of touch with the Church and need to sit down and shut up.

Here’s one of the articles about the “movement.”
news.yahoo.com/protesters-back-u-nuns-standoff-vatican-185217241.html

Thank you so much. I suspected that this was tied into the Vatican inquiry. I am sure the majority of Religious toil in obscurity and are faithful Catholics. But unfortunately the news media loves to feature the renegades because their interests are similarly aligned. I can understand the faithful sisters are upset at being maligned while the renegades are simply chafing at the restrictions and investigations.

I just remember when the Obamacare debate was going on, the media advanced the comments of a Religious whose philosophy seemed less concerned with the pro abortion/pro contraception focus of the bill than they should have been. Unfortunately the public can’t distinguish between the actual Church teaching and some heretical interpretation by an individual.

Lisa

 

[jwinch2]

Thank you so much. I suspected that this was tied into the Vatican inquiry. I am sure the majority of Religious toil in obscurity and are faithful Catholics. But unfortunately the news media loves to feature the renegades because their interests are similarly aligned. I can understand the faithful sisters are upset at being maligned while the renegades are simply chafing at the restrictions and investigations.

I just remember when the Obamacare debate was going on, the media advanced the comments of a Religious whose philosophy seemed less concerned with the pro abortion/pro contraception focus of the bill than they should have been. Unfortunately the public can’t distinguish between the actual Church teaching and some heretical interpretation by an individual.

Lisa

Exactly correct in my view Lisa.

Peace,

 

[KSU]

Originally Posted by KSU
“Neither Msgr Pope nor anyone in this thread said all Religious should wear habits whether they ever were supposed to or not.
It’s a non-issue.”

Not really. Msgr Pope certainly implied as much in the article linked above. A few posts prior to that the statement was made in reference to another article “are these women nuns, then why do they not wear a habit?” In addition, multiple persons throughout the life of this thread have made similar statements.

Sorry for the delay in responding, Jason. Family gatherings for the holiday, etc.

Here is the crux of what Msgr. Pope had to say:

“It is clear that the orders that preserve the wearing of the habit along with common life, common prayer, and a focused apostolate are doing better, some quite well, with vocations. Orders that have set aside the habit are largely dying out. It is not the habit alone, I am sure, but the habit (or lack thereof) does signify something important about the health of the religious community.”

Please note that he clearly was speaking only about orders “that preserve” and orders that “have set aside” the wearing of the habit. I don’t read that as meaning he was speaking about ALL orders or other groups, including sisters that never were supposed to wear habits in the first place. Nor do I recall anyone on this board taking that position.

You also said that whether or not they wear habits is none of our business, and none of Msgr. Pope’s business. Again, Jason, that means you think he and others here were saying all sisters should wear habits whether or not they originally were supposed to.

Again, that doesn’t appear to be the case, so I believe it’s a non-issue. Perhaps I’ve grown sensitive after reading articles in America, the NCR, the NYT , etc. about the LCWR.

But let me leave you with the soothing words of Sister Patricia Owens O’Flannery, OP, a post-modern pre-traditional omni-spiritual Dominican sister:

"Hello, dear and gentle readers… May the warmth and vicissitude of Nature grace you with immeasurable beneficence! I have been praying for each of you every day, offering supplication that Sophia bless you and surround you with her wise wisdom, inspiring you to dance and play and immerse yourself in Her ephemeral permanence of lasting spontaneity!

“You know, I’m not sure that makes a lot of sense, and if it doesn’t, please forgive me. My soul has been heavy as of late, all because of the recent announcement of the LCWR investigation. I know that many of you have been eager for my opinion and insights on this serious matter – I have felt the psychic vibrations emanating throughout the noosphere. Such confusion in your hearts, dear readers! I will try to explain and assuage your fearsome trepidations and trepidacious fears…”
the-american-catholic.com/2012/04/30/sister-patricia-on-the-lcwr-crackdown/

Now, Jason, I’m going to make it my business by saying I hope Sister Pat never gets within 100 feet of a habit.

 

[jwinch2]

But let me leave you with the soothing words of Sister Patricia Owens O’Flannery, OP, a post-modern pre-traditional omni-spiritual Dominican sister:

"Hello, dear and gentle readers… May the warmth and vicissitude of Nature grace you with immeasurable beneficence! I have been praying for each of you every day, offering supplication that Sophia bless you and surround you with her wise wisdom, inspiring you to dance and play and immerse yourself in Her ephemeral permanence of lasting spontaneity!

“You know, I’m not sure that makes a lot of sense, and if it doesn’t, please forgive me. My soul has been heavy as of late, all because of the recent announcement of the LCWR investigation. I know that many of you have been eager for my opinion and insights on this serious matter – I have felt the psychic vibrations emanating throughout the noosphere. Such confusion in your hearts, dear readers! I will try to explain and assuage your fearsome trepidations and trepidacious fears…”
the-american-catholic.com/2012/04/30/sister-patricia-on-the-lcwr-crackdown/

Now, Jason, I’m going to make it my business by saying I hope Sister Pat never gets within 100 feet of a habit.

Now that, was absolutely brutal… Funny parody, but brutal nonetheless.

 

[LisaA]

Originally Posted by KSU
“Neither Msgr Pope nor anyone in this thread said all Religious should wear habits whether they ever were supposed to or not.
It’s a non-issue.”

But let me leave you with the soothing words of Sister Patricia Owens O’Flannery, OP, a post-modern pre-traditional omni-spiritual Dominican sister:

"Hello, dear and gentle readers… May the warmth and vicissitude of Nature grace you with immeasurable beneficence! I have been praying for each of you every day, offering supplication that Sophia bless you and surround you with her wise wisdom, inspiring you to dance and play and immerse yourself in Her ephemeral permanence of lasting spontaneity!

“You know, I’m not sure that makes a lot of sense, and if it doesn’t, please forgive me. My soul has been heavy as of late, all because of the recent announcement of the LCWR investigation. I know that many of you have been eager for my opinion and insights on this serious matter – I have felt the psychic vibrations emanating throughout the noosphere. Such confusion in your hearts, dear readers! I will try to explain and assuage your fearsome trepidations and trepidacious fears…”
the-american-catholic.com/2012/04/30/sister-patricia-on-the-lcwr-crackdown/

Now, Jason, I’m going to make it my business by saying I hope Sister Pat never gets within 100 feet of a habit.

Good heavens! The article is shocking. This Sister has long since left the Church. She is clearly identifying with a pagan and feminist world view. Or is this meant to be tongue in cheek. It is so outrageous that I wonder if it is all in jest?

Lisa

 

[Dawnia]

That was hilarious! I love satire.

“the new dawn of dawny dawnness”