Vatican demands reform of American nuns' leadership group [CWN]

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I have a question for anyone who knows a little more about this than me.

I’ve seen it implied in this thread and in other places that the leadership of the LCWR that is being told to reform is mostly made up of older women, from the generation that joined in the 1960’s. And conversely that the younger generations that have come in since then are generally more in line with the teachings of the Church.

Does anyone know about this, or to what extent the leadership represents the feelings of the rest of the sisters? Thanks
ncregister.com/daily-news/whats-going-on-with-the-lcwr/
 
From: 2009 STUDY ON RECENT VOCATIONS TO RELIGIOUS LIFE

Fact: Religious institutes that have a focused mission, who live in community, who have regular prayer and sacramental life, and who wear a habit show a higher proportion of newer members. The study indicates that men and women are also drawn to other types of religious life.

Fact: Both men and women seem to be drawn to habited communities. About two thirds of the newer members say they belong to a religious institute that wears a habit. Among those that responded affirmatively, a little more than half indicate that the habit is required in all or most circumstances.

Interestingly, almost half of the men who belong to an institute that does not wear a habit say they would wear it if it were an option, compared to nearly a quarter of the women respondents.

See page 29 for Age Distribution in LCWR andCMSWR in study NRVC/CARA Complete Report

nrvc.net/member/download?id=365

nrvc.net/study_overview/
 
Thanks for the link. This, from the linked article, seems to answer the question:

“This sad tale might not end soon, but it will end. The average age of the members of LCWR communities is 73 and increasing, while their numbers fall. Meanwhile, what of the CMSWR? They represent 20% of all the women religious in the U.S., more than 11,000 sisters, but they are young, with an average age of 35 and falling, and they are growing fast.”
ncregister.com/daily-news/whats-going-on-with-the-lcwr/#ixzz1x7MGa3fo
 
Dear Friends in Christ.

Forgive me if someone else has already posted this link:

pbs.org/newshour/bb/religion/jan-june12/vatican_04-19.html

It seems to be a link that explains some of the basic issues. My opinion is that those who publicly consecrate their lives to the Church have elected to submit to the authority of the Holy Father, The Magisterium and the CCC. As a new convert, it is very dis-heartening to see the dissent, but I have all faith in the Church Christ founded.
 
Dear Friends in Christ.

Forgive me if someone else has already posted this link:

pbs.org/newshour/bb/religion/jan-june12/vatican_04-19.html

It seems to be a link that explains some of the basic issues. My opinion is that those who publicly consecrate their lives to the Church have elected to submit to the authority of the Holy Father, The Magisterium and the CCC. As a new convert, it is very dis-heartening to see the dissent, but I have all faith in the Church Christ founded.
Be not afraid, the Church has survived far worse dissents than those brought up by the women Religious who are the subject of these reforms. The article was interesting in that it was clear the interviewer had all the feminist buzz words “reproductive rights” etc to gin up animosity toward the Church. Also she tried to deflect the criticism as if the Vatican were complaining about women Religious who are serving the poor, running hospitals etc. rather than the dissenting opinions being expressed openly.

Interesting interview, thank you for sharing it. I’m not a new convert but I am a convert like you!

Lisa
 
Be not afraid, the Church has survived far worse dissents than those brought up by the women Religious who are the subject of these reforms. The article was interesting in that it was clear the interviewer had all the feminist buzz words “reproductive rights” etc to gin up animosity toward the Church. Also she tried to deflect the criticism as if the Vatican were complaining about women Religious who are serving the poor, running hospitals etc. rather than the dissenting opinions being expressed openly.

Interesting interview, thank you for sharing it. I’m not a new convert but I am a convert like you!

Lisa
Oh thank you, dear sister in Christ, LisaA! I am so glad there are many among us who believe we will overcome this recent trial. I think of St.Catherine of Sienna and remember her in the midst of so much, so yes, there is great hope. You are right, in the interview, the feminist seems to twist things to make us forget the gracious Sisters who have no part in this controversy except to want the Magisterium to sort it out.

We can love people in great compassion, but we must not water down or diminish the truth of the Catechism or the teachings of the Church. Christ died to save us all from sin. If we say there is no sin at all, (homosexual acts, abortion, impurity) we are not truthful. Christ rose again in triumph over sin. He said “I come not to call the Righteous but sinners to repentance.” That includes all of us. New ideas and even heresies will abound, but God is constant in his truths. Christ said “I come not to abolish the law but to fulfill it.” So, we have law, we have a law founded on Christ’s love. I pray that those who offend Holy Church will be instructed and will turn back to the truth.
Many blessings,
Kathryn Ann:heaven:
 
Kathryn Ann, it is a very good sign that a recent covert has the correct outlook on this matter of the LCWR, as well as the faith you display! Many prospective converts lost interest soon after their hope and trust in the Church was dashed by dissident teachers or secular sources.

Without divulging your or their identity, are you able to tell me whom/where it was that you were so well formed in the Faith?
 
Kathryn Ann, it is a very good sign that a recent covert has the correct outlook on this matter of the LCWR, as well as the faith you display! Many prospective converts lost interest soon after their hope and trust in the Church was dashed by dissident teachers or secular sources.

Without divulging your or their identity, are you able to tell me whom/where it was that you were so well formed in the Faith?
That is so very kind of you, KSU,:angel1: of course I am still learning! I have so much more to learn, especially, about these recent debates. (On another thread which I started, I asked about ecumenism versus the “No Salvation outside the Church”) and was amazed at the different opinions on actual Church teaching.* That is what I always seek, what does the Church say about an issue?*

As to your question: I did have excellent RCIA formation, in Norfolk Va., (year of 2003-2004). I have as acquaintances, one trusted Priest abroad who helps me in my formation through letters and emails, my very good Pastor and several Sisters (Religious). I’m now a novice oblate of St. Benedict, so I study the Rule and enjoy that very much as I process through my journey.

I’m sure that the fact that I experienced a real dearth of any authority at all during my time as a protestant was a key factor that led me to the solidity of the true Faith. There is an excellent YouTube Video called “How old is your Church?” which lists al the human founders of protestant faiths, then points to Christ, Divine Founder of our Faith. I found that video years after I converted, and wished I had seen that decades earlier. It’s simple, truthful, and makes people question just what is it they are protesting when they call themselves “Protestant?”

I love to read, and love Church history, which shows us how faint- hearted humans are often swayed by “new knowledge,” often causing heresies. It’s so clear, from history, that human beings are so often led astray by the times they live in, believing that "new knowledge’ about something must force the Church to change basic tenets.

Mostly, seeing all the divisions in protestantism has clearly taught me not to trust individual interpretation of scripture or circumstances. We must look to our Heavenly Father in prayer, to Christ, to the Holy Spirit, the Magisterium, the Holy Father and the CCC to enlighten ourselves.

I find these forums a safe place to ask questions when I’m wondering about issues, because people often quote the CCC. In the end, the Holy Spirit guides any child of God who wants instruction. Recognizing my lack of real education and my convert status, I’m always desiring to know what the Church teaches, rather than trust personal opinions, the latter of which there are a multitude on every subject!

May your day be very blessed!:heaven:
Kathryn Ann
 
This weekend someone in my parish came up to me and asked me to wear a button “I Stand with the Sisters” Is this what that’s all about? She didn’t have time to explain the issue so fortunately I wasn’t put on the spot but I want to be prepared if someone else in the Parish asks me to participate. We have some wonderful Religious in our Parish and I know this investigation is heartbreaking for them as well.

Lisa
I would have said that my “I stand with the Catholic Church” button takes up too much space to wear another button. 😃
 
I recently finished RCIA myself just this year (though I’ve been Catholic at heart for 10 years or so) . Its nice to read such thoughtful comments, like those of Kathryn Ann and others here
 
Abyssinia, thank you so much for the important links you posted. I do my best not to get disheartened when I see such division. When I see some websites hosted by members of the Church clergy who are “siding” with Nuns over Holy Church, it astonishes me. Christ entreats us to be “One” in truth. But we cannot allow heresy or false teaching. I really appreciate your taking the time to post these links.
Kathryn Ann:heaven:
 
This weekend someone in my parish came up to me and asked me to wear a button “I Stand with the Sisters” Is this what that’s all about? She didn’t have time to explain the issue so fortunately I wasn’t put on the spot but I want to be prepared if someone else in the Parish asks me to participate. We have some wonderful Religious in our Parish and I know this investigation is heartbreaking for them as well.

Lisa
Bless you Lisa,
No one had better ask me to wear that button! Another poster here suggested saying something like sorry, my “I stand with the Church” button takes up too much room. I like that! Well, God is quite big enough to sort this out. My concern is for people considering entering the Church who must wonder what this is all about. God is great, so His Church will stand against the very gates of Hell and prevail. :heaven:
Kathryn Ann
 
I would have said that my “I stand with the Catholic Church” button takes up too much space to wear another button. 😃
Wonderful comeback, vsedriver! I’ll remember to say that if approached as you were.
Blessings,
Kathryn Ann:heaven:
 
Kathryn Ann, thank you for your reply to my question about how your faith was formed. Good luck with your novitiate. Trust in God–no matter what!

You say you were amazed at the different opinions on Church teaching found on this forum :). To the battle-scarred, hard-core Catholics here, that’s funny, but don’t let it fool you–this forum nevertheless is a God-send, and a person like you will be able to separate the wheat from the chaff. (As we ex-Texans like to say, opinions are like cowboy hats; everybody has one).

You also will find a whole lot more wheat than chaff here, and rarely (never from the professional staff) if ever will you find differences as to doctrine itself.

Pick up a Catholic Dictionary by John A. Hardon, S.J., and rely on this as well: newadvent.org/

If you really want to study the reason for what ails the Church today, go to newadvent.org/cathen/10415a.htm#XIII with very special attention to Pascendi.
 
Dear Friends in Christ.

Forgive me if someone else has already posted this link:

pbs.org/newshour/bb/religion/jan-june12/vatican_04-19.html

It seems to be a link that explains some of the basic issues. My opinion is that those who publicly consecrate their lives to the Church have elected to submit to the authority of the Holy Father, The Magisterium and the CCC. As a new convert, it is very dis-heartening to see the dissent, but I have all faith in the Church Christ founded.
Too bad it was so short, DONNA BETHELL, Christendom College was doing a nice job and more dialogue with JEANNINE HILL FLETCHER, Fordham University would have helped, especially on the specific points in the Doctrinal Assessment of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious.

Gotta get specific.

And notice how they did not get nasty with each other.
 
Kathryn Ann, thank you for your reply to my question about how your faith was formed. Good luck with your novitiate. Trust in God–no matter what!

You say you were amazed at the different opinions on Church teaching found on this forum :). To the battle-scarred, hard-core Catholics here, that’s funny, but don’t let it fool you–this forum nevertheless is a God-send, and a person like you will be able to separate the wheat from the chaff. (As we ex-Texans like to say, opinions are like cowboy hats; everybody has one).

You also will find a whole lot more wheat than chaff here, and rarely (never from the professional staff) if ever will you find differences as to doctrine itself.

Pick up a Catholic Dictionary by John A. Hardon, S.J., and rely on this as well: newadvent.org/

If you really want to study the reason for what ails the Church today, go to newadvent.org/cathen/10415a.htm#XIII with very special attention to Pascendi.
Thank you so much, KSU, and for these links. I will need them, that I am beginning to see! Bless you and all here who are so very helpful to a novice! I happened upon a clergy person’s site the other day, and he is clearly pushing in favor the LCWR’s dissent. I have since left his particular forum, as there is so much work to do in helping people in distress that I found it useless and overly time consuming to spend time debating. These forums, on the other hand, allow honest inquiry. For the most part, people here help by stating Church law. That is so helpful for everyone, especially new converts like me.
Kathryn Ann
:heaven:
 
Too bad it was so short, DONNA BETHELL, Christendom College was doing a nice job and more dialogue with JEANNINE HILL FLETCHER, Fordham University would have helped, especially on the specific points in the Doctrinal Assessment of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious.

Gotta get specific.

And notice how they did not get nasty with each other.
Yes, I would have liked that debate to go longer in order to learn more! I saw the usual pro-feminist agenda coming from the one and the traditional, insightful Catholic view on the other. There are things that are not debatable, such as abortion, homosexual acts and impurity.

What some seem to forget is that the Church recognizes that humans fail, and offers the Sacrament of Penance and Reconciliation. To say there is no sin at all is heresy. Christ died and rose for us, to triumph over sin. “If we say there is no sin is us,” we lie, according to Scripture. I’m glad to hear that a number of women religious do not agree with these dissenting ideas proposed by the LCWR, and also that younger, more traditionally- minded Sisters are entering, ready to live out their consecrated lives in poverty, chastity and obedience to the Church.
 
Just saw the debate on PBS and it’s unfortunately that Ms. Fletcher seemed to have a chip on her shoulder from the beginning. If she is indeed a Catholic Feminist Theologian, then maybe she should turn to the ultimate model of womanhood, our Blessed Mother, and maybe then she will understand what Ms. Bethell was trying to say.
 
*Nuns on the Bus: Nuns Drive for Faith, Family and Fairness.”

*thy may be coming to your town:

networklobby.org/news-media/nunsonbus

I wonder what order.
“We are so shocked by this action [by the Vatican] that we’re still putting our thoughts together,” said Stephanie Niedringhaus, spokeswoman for Network, a social justice lobby formed by nuns, and part of the [LCWR]. "We never expected this and we are deeply grieved for the tens of thousands of sisters who dedicate themselves to social justice work. articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/19/nation/la-na-vatican-nuns-20120420

networklobby.org/blog/2012-5-25/blog-Friday_reflection

thestate.com/2012/06/01/2299293/nuns-take-issue-with-critical.html
 
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