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livingwordunity
Guest
Very well said.
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Very well said.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
It makes me laugh to see just how many people actually believe the Church will change her views on gay marriage, as if she even can. Mother Church, unlike other institutions created by man, will never succumb to the whims and evil ways of the world. how comforting to know we will always stand strong
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SuperLuigi
Guest
Catholics need to wake and realize the mainstream Western media has it own agenda which is either bad or presents feel-good solutions that do not work.
And yes, they’ll seemingly use our Popes to achieve those ends.
We all have an obligation to be wary of scandal.
And yes, they’ll seemingly use our Popes to achieve those ends.
We all have an obligation to be wary of scandal.
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RPRPsych
Guest
Excellent post.
The media enjoys misquoting and misrepresenting Popes. (Heck, some segments of the media still harp on poor Pope Pius XII and his mythical “Nazi connections”, long after the man is cold and dead.)
There are several sites that list alleged “heresies” of Bl. John Paul II and Benedict XVI, which on close study turn out to be nothing of the kind.
Moral of the story: take the media with general doses of salt. Especially the secular or “progressive Catholic” media.
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livingwordunity
Guest
When the Pope said, “Who am I to judge?” the media ripped that out of the context of the rest of what he said. When seen in context, it’s clear that the Pope said nothing new. We have to remember that Pope Francis is still a new Pope. And, the Vatican has made attempts to correct the media’s misrepresentations. All of the confusion is the media’s fault for exploiting their power of propaganda by selectively twisting the Pope’s words and jumping to wild conclusions.
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TEPO
Guest
Why does the Vatican feel the need to cover for the Pope? Because they are a governing institute while the Pope us a spiritual director ?
I don’t get it.
I don’t get it.
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TEPO
Guest
The Vatican must be worried about Italy’s future in regards to gay marriage… That’s why they’re making themselves clear.
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Joe_5859
Guest
Right. It is mystifying but not surprising.It is but it isn’t, know what I mean?
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TEPO
Guest
I wonder what would happen if gay marriage were legalized in Italy. How would that effect the laws in Vatican City?
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TEPO
Guest
It’s strange how the media acts the same way no matter what part of the world you’re in.
…what a bunch of tools.
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Joe_5859
Guest
I honestly don’t know why people find Pope Francis to be unclear. 
I think he is quite clear. It is unnecessary for him to repeat every Catholic teaching every time he opens his mouth just so that the media will not be able to twist his words. He is the pope. Of course he abides by Catholic teaching. Do we really need constant reassurance of that obvious fact?
For goodness sake, look at the quote of his in context in this particular instance:
The pillars of education according to the Pope are: “convey understanding, convey ways of doing things, convey values. Faith is conveyed through these. The educator should be up to being a person who educates, he or she should consider how to proclaim Jesus Christ to a generation that is changing.” He insisted, therefore: “Education today is a key, key, key mission!” And he recalled some of his experiences in Buenos Aires regarding the preparation necessary to welcome children in an educational context, little boys and girls, young adults who live in complex situations, especially family ones: “I remember the case of a very sad little girl who finally confided to her teacher the reason for her state of mind: 'my mother’s fiancé feminine in the original Italian indicating a homosexual relationship] doesn’t like me.’ The percentage of children studying in schools who have separated parents is very high. The situation in which we live now provides us with new challenges which sometimes are difficult for us to understand. How can we proclaim Christ to these boys and girls? How can we proclaim Christ to a generation that is changing? We must be careful not to administer a vaccine against faith to them.”
That’s all he said. When the media takes such innocuous comments and reads into them an inevitable change in Catholic moral teaching, how could the Pope ever anticipate that? He’d have to be condemning homosexuality with every other sentence that comes out of his mouth.
The Pope is still Catholic. He’s not about to teach heresy anytime soon.
I think he is quite clear. It is unnecessary for him to repeat every Catholic teaching every time he opens his mouth just so that the media will not be able to twist his words. He is the pope. Of course he abides by Catholic teaching. Do we really need constant reassurance of that obvious fact?For goodness sake, look at the quote of his in context in this particular instance:
The pillars of education according to the Pope are: “convey understanding, convey ways of doing things, convey values. Faith is conveyed through these. The educator should be up to being a person who educates, he or she should consider how to proclaim Jesus Christ to a generation that is changing.” He insisted, therefore: “Education today is a key, key, key mission!” And he recalled some of his experiences in Buenos Aires regarding the preparation necessary to welcome children in an educational context, little boys and girls, young adults who live in complex situations, especially family ones: “I remember the case of a very sad little girl who finally confided to her teacher the reason for her state of mind: 'my mother’s fiancé feminine in the original Italian indicating a homosexual relationship] doesn’t like me.’ The percentage of children studying in schools who have separated parents is very high. The situation in which we live now provides us with new challenges which sometimes are difficult for us to understand. How can we proclaim Christ to these boys and girls? How can we proclaim Christ to a generation that is changing? We must be careful not to administer a vaccine against faith to them.”
That’s all he said. When the media takes such innocuous comments and reads into them an inevitable change in Catholic moral teaching, how could the Pope ever anticipate that? He’d have to be condemning homosexuality with every other sentence that comes out of his mouth.
The Pope is still Catholic. He’s not about to teach heresy anytime soon.
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TEPO
Guest
Well that’s because legalized gay marriage in Italy might mean the Vatican would have to honor it. What a victory that would be for the LGBTQ community.
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McCall1981
Guest
Someone please help me out here.
As much as I want to be happy about this (and I am), it seems to me that Fr. Lombardi did not say the Pope doesn’t approve of civil unions.
Fr. Lombardi’s message seems to basically be “the Pope was not giving his opinion on civil unions”.
Now I can see how what Fr. Lombardi said implies that the Pope does not approve of civil unions, but it seems to be only at the level of implying, not stating directly.
Am I missing something here?
As much as I want to be happy about this (and I am), it seems to me that Fr. Lombardi did not say the Pope doesn’t approve of civil unions.
Fr. Lombardi’s message seems to basically be “the Pope was not giving his opinion on civil unions”.
Now I can see how what Fr. Lombardi said implies that the Pope does not approve of civil unions, but it seems to be only at the level of implying, not stating directly.
Am I missing something here?
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TEPO
Guest
I think the Vatican is speaking here as a government… This is all about Italy. That’s all. It was the Italian media that did the twisting, and this whole thread is about Italy, Italian politics, and Vatican City, located in Italy.
The Pope speaks as the voice of the Church on a global scale. Italian Politics are not his field.
EDIT: though he is the Bishop of Rome, so he could voice his opinion on this.
He probably doesn’t dabble with such small potatoes as this.
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Joe_5859
Guest
Look at what Fr. Lombardi actually said:
The topic was quite obviously “forced” Fr. Lombardi observes, “so as to appear in some cases as a manipulation.” Speaking of an "openness to gay couples " is paradoxical, Fr. Lombardi states, “because the Pope’s speech is overall general (in nature) and because even the small concrete example made by the Pope about (a girl who is sad because her mother’s girlfriend does not love her ) alludes to the suffering of children …”
The Pope had “absolutely not expressed” his opinions on a debate that was ignited in Italy one month later, Fr. Lombardi says, and “those who remember the positions he expressed earlier in Argentina during similar debates know that they were completely different from what some people are now trying surreptitiously to attribute to him.”
First, it is unnecessary for Fr. Lombardi to speak on the Pope’s behalf in clarifying a moral issue. He’s the press secretary, not the head of the CDF.
Second, he’s more or less saying that they will not allow themselves to get sucked into a political debate that is being forced upon them and is being framed by those with an agenda.
Third, he pretty clearly alludes to the fact that the pope’s views are not in fact those that are being ascribed to him by the press.
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marymary1975
Guest
Again you are wrong. The word “judge” in Italian is “giudice”. The word judge in Spanish is “juzgar.”. Show me the piece of the original interview either in Spanish/Italian in which the pope uses the words “juzgar” or “giudice”
What the Pope said was “si una persona gay sinceramente esta buscando a Dios, quien soy yo para criticarlos.”. The word which the Pope used (note it is neither juzgar nor giudice) means badmouthing in a hateful way, so literally what he said (in the full context of the sentence is: if someone is gay and that person is looking for God with a sincere heart, who am I to badmouth the person hatefully."
The Pope in a very smart way AVOIDED the use of the word judge precisely he knows the word creates ambiguity and instead choose a word that mean hatefully badmouthing. Also note he says IF the person is SINCERELY…i. e. The person has actual constrisction and is looking for God. He was very clear and stated exactly the catholic doctrine. That the media mistranslated his word to turn it into an ambiguous statement and they took words out of context is a completely different story.
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marymary1975
Guest
Livingword, the pope did not say who am I to judge. That is a mistranslation of the media, intentional if you ask me. Look at my previous post so you can read his actual statement.
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McCall1981
Guest
Well, I certainly see how it is implied, and this is probably the most encouraging thing we have seen yet on the issue of same sex civil unions. To me it just seems to lean more towards “he didn’t give his opinion”, rather than “he dissapproves”.
Given that the denial is implied and not explicit, I’m actually shocked that the media didn’t spin this quote the other way. I would have thought for sure that this quote would have lead to “Pope leaves door open for civil unions”, or something, since Fr. Lombardi did not say explicitly that Francis dissaproves.
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livingwordunity
Guest
Thank you for that. I just learned something new. The secular media is very slick and tricky.
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Joe_5859
Guest
The thing to keep in mind is that this is all coming to the fore in light of political discussions going on in Italy. Fr. Lombardi is doing his best not to allow the Holy See to get sucked into a political debate.
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