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Lormar
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Unfortunately, there is a lot of truth to what you have said, but I wouldn’t say “rule” so much as influence.
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tm30
Guest
It doesn’t matter what I think. I understand what the pope is saying. OTHERS DON’T. Do you not see that as a problem? Whether or not the students are using a bad translation is beside the point – the damage is done. Bickering over translation is not the answer.
Put it this way. If there’s a fire in the theater, you yell “FIRE”, not “WARMTH”. Francis is yelling “WARMTH” and the press is reporting it as “BRAVO!”
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nothingeasy
Guest
okay ignore list
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SuperLuigi
Guest
It’s just like with “discrimination”.
“You can discriminate against me or my friends!”
I’ve said on here I don’t know how many times laws by their nature discriminate.
You even discriminate when you pick one product over the other at the store!
That’s what discrimination is and it’s not always bad!!! :tiphat:
My favorite is “love”.
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marymary1975
Guest
Well I have to say that is something that particularly bugs me, the church not saying anything. I think the church has a tendency to be like “we hold the truth and just because of that we don’t defend ourselves from attacks against us or clarify thing because as they are lying someday the truth will come out.” In the meantime sit and wait And then back down. That is an attitude that you see on all areas from abortion to pope’s statements. The church has a massive tendency to back up and nit defending itself. I think their behavior falls into that attitude. The church has a tendency to not defend themselves and just sit and wait. Personally I don’t think that is the way it should be. Again for example going back to John Paul 2 and the hell issue, you still have priests saying that hell doesn’t exist. They never corrected it and the error stayed. While on the other hand, if we were talking about pro choivwrs or gay activist group, you misquote them or try to attack them in less than the blink of an eye they jump to attack back. No wonder why they have won so many people over time so easily.
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livingwordunity
Guest
So be it, if that’s your judgment. But, by making that decision you have judged me more than I have judged you.
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KrazyKat
Guest
Okay. The ones who donate the most money influence the church to the point that if the priest does not do things their way that priest will be replaced in a very short time.
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PTL
Guest
Thank you for saying it so clear and so well. No matter how I said it, the other poster could not understand or do not want to understand my point but only accuse me as “wrong”. I am glad to see you are addressing the same point to her.
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marymary1975
Guest
But the pope is not yelling"warmth". That is where we are disagreeing on the facts. The pope is yelling FIRE. If the pope yells fire and one fireman hears him yelling fire and turns and says to the others oh it is OK he is yelling that everything is OK, no need to go ther, and despite the fact that the other firemen are seeing some flames they go ahhh he says that the pope is saying OK, we are not going. Who’s fault it is? The Pope’s? Why is his fault if he is yelling fire? Shouldn’t the responsibility be from the fireman who with full knowledge that the pope is saying fire and is blatantly lying to the others? Shouldn’t the responsibility be from the firemen who are seeing the flames but going like we are not going because the other fireman says is OK?
And if you still think that the problems are the others not understanding the Pope, my question again: do you think we would have the same problem if the media reports that Einstein said 2+2=42? Do you think most teachers would start teaching that 2+2=42 based on that? And if not why the difference?
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Lormar
Guest
Funny how they miss that, isn’t it?
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livingwordunity
Guest
Pope Francis just became the Pope. He is still new. So, it would not have been appropriate for him to start out by immediately ringing a fire alarm. He is trying to evangelize the world, and to do that he first has to develop a relationship. If he would have started out pounding his fist and bemoaning the sins of the world the media would have used that against him and the Church. The bottom line is, no matter what, the media is going to find a way to misrepresent the Pope and Catholicism. This isn’t the Pope’s fault that the secular media has evil intent. Pope Francis has been doing exactly what he is supposed to do in this early stage of his papacy. Again, he is still a new Pope. But even so, the Vatican has come out with clarifications such as the one at the beginning of this thread.
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marymary1975
Guest
Oh that happens so much in Latin america I can’t tell you. It is a major problem and the reason why many good people stop going to the church because these mean high class people rule the church. Sad.
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PTL
Guest
I agree with what you said. It may be his strategy. I have never said it’s the Pope’s fault. It is his style. But I do think it is important to make sure not to give the media plenty room to twist. Style can be modified for the greater good. Even just add “judgement belongs to God”, will be less ambiguous. Again, the problem is not you or I understand what the Pope said, the problem is the majority do not know what the Pope really said. It can cause many weak brothers to fall. It can also make many non-Catholics think the Church has evolved. That is very serious. If it is not serious, Vatican will not have to clarify!!
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McCall1981
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When he was elected, I remember there was talk that he had supported same sex civil unions in Argentina as a “lesser of two evils” when same sex marriage was being debated.
Some people said he did support it, some said he didn’t, but was there ever any resolution to this? Did we ever find out definitively one way or the other?
Some people said he did support it, some said he didn’t, but was there ever any resolution to this? Did we ever find out definitively one way or the other?
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livingwordunity
Guest
Even if he did say when he was a cardinal that same-sex ‘civil unions’ is the lesser of the two evils when compared to so-called same-sex ‘marriage’ he would have been making a true statement. Calling something the lesser of two evils is far from calling it good. See the following:
Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, authored by then Joseph Card. Ratzinger
Considerations Regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions between Homosexual Persons:
When legislation in favour of the recognition of homosexual unions is already in force, the Catholic politician must oppose it in the ways that are possible for him and make his opposition known; it is his duty to witness to the truth. If it is not possible to repeal such a law completely, the Catholic politician, recalling the indications contained in the Encyclical Letter Evangelium vitae, “could licitly support proposals aimed at limiting the harm done by such a law and at lessening its negative consequences at the level of general opinion and public morality”, on condition that his “absolute personal opposition” to such laws was clear and well known and that the danger of scandal was avoided.(18) This does not mean that a more restrictive law in this area could be considered just or even acceptable; rather, it is a question of the legitimate and dutiful attempt to obtain at least the partial repeal of an unjust law when its total abrogation is not possible at the moment.
Plus, whatever he may or may not have said as a cardinal doesn’t carry any weight compared to his words and actions as the Pope.
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Lochias
Guest
She called you “wrong” because you are, in this regard… You failed to address any of her points, and chose to sulk (mightily) instead. And here you are, doing it again. I gently say to you: Man up, please.
As to Pope Francis and the Vatican, it is not the Church’s job to force-feed the truth to those who choose not to listen. The very fact that the media is trying to run away with Pope Francis’ words means that the teachings of the Church, and of Pope Francis, are already very established and do not need constant clarification.
People who are determined to believe lies will believe them no matter how hard someone stamps and screams. Better to let actions do the talking. Ya’ll stop worrying.
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PTL
Guest
I exactly addressed to her points and you either did not read or fail to understand. Anyway, there is no need for me to talk to any rude person with no intention to understand other perspective and communicate, but only be a self righteous accusor.
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