Vatican envoy: 'no further room for denial' on climate change [CC]

  • Thread starter Thread starter Catholic_Press
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
LeafByNiggle said:
That’s a classical ad hominem attack (also called “shoot the messenger”). If you can’t refute the arguments of a source, just label them an advocacy group and skip actually refuting them. But if you read the citation, Media Matters is not asking anyone to take them at their word. They have references to outside sources. (I know, I know, all sources that disagree with you must be corrupt.)
Click to expand...
Somebody bought a thesaurus, I think.
 
Good_Tidings said:
I’m with you on this. I don’t understand why people want to hold on to information that better than 97% of scientists say is false. The Jesuits have always been forward thinkers and I’m so happy that Pope Francis is one of them. With God’s grace he will make a difference.
Click to expand...
I guess we will just have to wait and see if Pope Francis has in mind a target percentage by which he would like to raise utility bills. Will he recommend firing all the coal miners in West Virginia and closing down the mines? Will he recommend that Germany and China quit using coal generated electricity entirely, thereby raising energy prices for everyone? How much economic disaster will he be willing to accept in return for 2ppm reduction of CO2? These are as yet unanswered questions. Most of them cannot be answered by scientists.
 
JimG said:
I guess we will just have to wait and see if Pope Francis has in mind a target percentage by which he would like to raise utility bills. Will he recommend firing all the coal miners in West Virginia and closing down the mines? Will he recommend that Germany and China quit using coal generated electricity entirely, thereby raising energy prices for everyone? How much economic disaster will he be willing to accept in return for 2ppm reduction of CO2? These are as yet unanswered questions. Most of them cannot be answered by scientists.
Click to expand...
lol why do people question the pope when he addresses the global warming crisis as a MORAL problem? So many are quick to say he is playing politician or scientist. The Man is a PROFOUND EXPERT on Christian morality,and he is calling the global warming crisis a MORAL CRISIS.

I am sure the vicar of Christ knows the difference between what is moral, political, and science.
 
Birdpreacher said:
lol why do people question the pope when he addresses the global warming crisis as a MORAL problem? So many are quick to say he is playing politician or scientist. The Man is a PROFOUND EXPERT on Christian morality,and he is calling the global warming crisis a MORAL CRISIS.

I am sure the vicar of Christ knows the difference between what is moral, political, and science.
Click to expand...
I quite agree that the pope is an excellent moral theologian. And I don’t question his recommendations, since he hasn’t made any. I’m sure that he will treat economic tradeoffs with due consideration. I’m hoping that he has good advice on the matter as well. Scientists, of course, are not experts as to economic tradeoffs or on degrees of spiking electricity rates.
 
JimG said:
I quite agree that the pope is an excellent moral theologian. And I don’t question his recommendations, since he hasn’t made any. I’m sure that he will treat economic tradeoffs with due consideration. I’m hoping that he has good advice on the matter as well. Scientists, of course, are not experts as to economic tradeoffs or on degrees of spiking electricity rates.
Click to expand...
Wait, were in Christian morality does economic tradeoffs enter the moral calculus? I missed that one in Catholic School.

If an act is immoral, it should be forbidden, economic consequences are irrelevant.
 
Birdpreacher said:
Wait, were in Christian morality does economic tradeoffs enter the moral calculus? I missed that one in Catholic School.

If an act is immoral, it should be forbidden, economic consequences are irrelevant.
Click to expand...
Is driving a car now an immoral act according to Catholic doctrine? Flipping a light switch? Turning on the heat? Exercising (increases your body’s CO2 output, don’t you know)? It must be nice to have all the big moral issues resolved so now the Church can devote it’s time to worrying about how much electricity we all use.
 
SWolf said:
Nope, just because an action is immoral does not mean it should be forbidden.
Click to expand...
forbidden in the sense that it is sin and should be avoided. But, I would love to see a religion that said not to avoid sin, sign me up
 
Birdpreacher said:
Wait, were in Christian morality does economic tradeoffs enter the moral calculus? I missed that one in Catholic School.

If an act is immoral, it should be forbidden, economic consequences are irrelevant.
Click to expand...
I’m not a moral theologian myself, but there are library shelves full of books with detailed considerations on matters impacted by moral theology. I don’t remember from Catholic school myself what percent of CO2 concentration was considered immoral, or whether buying cheap electricity was matter for confession. Or how one balanced CO2 percentages against miners fired from their jobs. But possibly some moral theologian has at some point considered the matter. We’ll just have to wait and see
 
ucfengr said:
Is driving a car now an immoral act according to Catholic doctrine? Flipping a light switch? Turning on the heat? Exercising (increases your body’s CO2 output, don’t you know)? It must be nice to have all the big moral issues resolved so now the Church can devote it’s time to worrying about how much electricity we all use.
Click to expand...
Yes to all the above, its always nice when CHristians realize that their faith requires them to be responsible stewards of natural resources: the earth, their bodies, etc.

Driving a car, using a light switch, turning up the heat, can all be sinful if the acts are done in a manner that squanders resources. And here’s the best part, it dosn’t matter if you lawfully paid for those electric uses, the Church dosen’t care how rich you are, we are all called to be stewards. Or you can join my Church and just be like nah, turn up the AC in winter without fearing the retribution of a god.
 
Birdpreacher said:
Yes to all the above, its always nice when CHristians realize that their faith requires them to be responsible stewards of natural resources: the earth, their bodies, etc.

Driving a car, using a light switch, turning up the heat, can all be sinful if the acts are done in a manner that squanders resources. And here’s the best part, it dosn’t matter if you lawfully paid for those electric uses, the Church dosen’t care how rich you are, we are all called to be stewards. Or you can join my Church and just be like nah, turn up the AC in winter without fearing the retribution of a god.
Click to expand...
So then by typing this drivel, you’re committing a sin? You must have the most boring confessions ever.
 
JimG said:
I’m not a moral theologian myself, but there are library shelves full of books with detailed considerations on matters impacted by moral theology. I don’t remember from Catholic school myself what percent of CO2 concentration was considered immoral, or whether buying cheap electricity was matter for confession. Or how one balanced CO2 percentages against miners fired from their jobs. But possibly some moral theologian has at some point considered the matter. We’ll just have to wait and see
Click to expand...
It was on that short chapter on the Ends don’t justify the means.

If the Pope, your head guy on Moral Theology, has a problem with how much CO2 is in the atmosphere and says that its a moral problem, then guess what, all the miners and big energy corporations are gonna have to find new work.

If an industry is involved in sin, then who cares how profitable it is? Don’t Catholics have special investment gurus who ensure their client’s money dosen’t ever go into sinful businesses? Just add environmentally irresponsible corporations to that “Do Not Invest” list.
 
ucfengr said:
So then by typing this drivel, you’re committing a sin? You must have the most boring confessions ever.
Click to expand...
against who? I don’t believe in a god(s)

And if this drivel can shake you out of your sleep as a Christian into realizing you are called to be a steward and take that responsibility seriously, then yes, it was worth it.

I don’t get an afterlife, this earth is all me and my descendents will have 😉
 
Birdpreacher said:
It was on that short chapter on the Ends don’t justify the means.

**If the Pope, your head guy on Moral Theology, has a problem with how much CO2 is in the atmosphere and says that its a moral problem, then guess what, all the miners and big energy corporations are gonna have to find new work. **

If an industry is involved in sin, then who cares how profitable it is? Don’t Catholics have special investment gurus who ensure their client’s money dosen’t ever go into sinful businesses? Just add environmentally irresponsible corporations to that “Do Not Invest” list.
Click to expand...
Wow, too bad you’re not in the Vatican bureaucracy! That statement would keep the headline writers busy for weeks!
 
JimG said:
And I don’t question his recommendations, since he hasn’t made any.
Click to expand...
This is the nub of it. Some Vatican person named Tomasi has made a statement to an environmental pressure group that wants money from wealthier countries. That’s it.
 
SuperLuigi said:
China has been polluting more than the USA for several years now, and if anything, the Americans have too much red tape on their environmental laws.
Click to expand...
Reminds me of this photo from China. It depicts a huge LCD screen set up in Tiananmen Square, Beijing, which allows residents to witness a televised dawn in the midst of unbearably ghastly air pollution.
 
Birdpreacher said:
Wait, were in Christian morality does economic tradeoffs enter the moral calculus? I missed that one in Catholic School.

If an act is immoral, it should be forbidden, economic consequences are irrelevant.
Click to expand...
This is absurd. “Economic consequences” that cause suffering, are most certainly within the prevue of the Catholic Church. What you’re basically saying is “Let God sort it out”. Brilliant. Very “compassionate”.

The laws that are being implemented in the United States right now are causing, and intentionally meant to cause, true hardship. Many people are losing their livelihoods. they can’t both pay their utility bills and keep up with the rent, they pay so much for gas that those earning a low income have seen it depleted to the point that they can’t pay their bills (including food bills) or travel, the list goes on and on–all for the sake of junk science and a government seeking centralized Power.

The Catholic Church has spoken out on this. It’s traditionally been in favor of the principle of subsidiarity. The principle that government, which include economic systems, should be organized so that power radiates upward, not from the top down. That it should be as close to the individual as possible, i.e., the family, neighbors, community, town, county state, etc., not from some centralized, distant, all-powerful government who know the least or nothing at all about an individuals circumstances. Pope Benedict spoke of it frequently (being a victim of it’s opposite–the Nazis). These “Global Warming” mandates flip this principle on its head. It cedes absolute power, on many levels, to a far distant national, or even global entity. This is why they frantically push this junk. It’s about Power.

This myth has been debunked. The information is out there, solid and growing. It’s acolytes either refuse to look at it or don’t know about it because its being attacked by people with a vested interest, or blacked out. The Catholic Church has traditionally been the voice of reason when doomsday movements cropped up. Why this now?

Your statement about economic consequences is amazing and very telling. I’m glad you made it. It reveals a lot.
 
MarkR said:
This is absurd. “Economic consequences” that cause suffering, are most certainly within the prevue of the Catholic Church. What you’re basically saying is “Let God sort it out”. Brilliant. Very “compassionate”.

The laws that are being implemented in the United States right now are causing, and intentionally meant to cause, true hardship. Many people are losing their livelihoods. they can’t both pay their utility bills and keep up with the rent, they pay so much for gas that those earning a low income have seen it depleted to the point that they can’t pay their bills (including food bills) or travel, the list goes on and on–all for the sake of junk science and a government seeking centralized Power.

The Catholic Church has spoken out on this. It’s traditionally been in favor of the principle of subsidiarity. The principle that government, which include economic systems, should be organized so that power radiates upward, not from the top down. That it should be as close to the individual as possible, i.e., the family, neighbors, community, town, county state, etc., not from some centralized, distant, all-powerful government who know the least or nothing at all about an individuals circumstances. Pope Benedict spoke of it frequently (being a victim of it’s opposite–the Nazis). These “Global Warming” mandates flip this principle on its head. It cedes absolute power, on many levels, to a far distant national, or even global entity. This is why they frantically push this junk. It’s about Power.

This myth has been debunked. The information is out there, solid and growing. It’s acolytes either refuse to look at it or don’t know about it because its being attacked by people with a vested interest, or blacked out. The Catholic Church has traditionally been the voice of reason when doomsday movements cropped up. Why this now?

Your statement about economic consequences is amazing and very telling. I’m glad you made it. It reveals a lot.
Click to expand...
You misconstrue. This discussion has nothing to do with the Church’s insistence on subsidarity (Its even more ironic given that the recent push to curb global warming/environmentalism is a bi-product of grass roots organizations effecting its will onto big national govts)

When, in the course of moral decision making does the Church teach. “Alright, now take into account how much money there is to be made”

This is why you catholics have CATHOLIC INVESTMENT corporations that only but money in church sanctioned businesses.

Surely you would agree that when taking into account whether the use of condoms is moral one ought not let the sad sob story of the condom maker and his family come into play.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top